Dyslexia, music and teaching

[Witters]

I am noticing a growing number of dyslexic music students coming my way.  Now, I know very little about this aside from changing the colour of paper music is printed on or over-laying coloured sheets, or covering some of the music.  My guess is dyslexia comes in various forms/guises and my approach will need to be tailor made for each student.

Anybody here dyslexic? What helps you?  How do you approach learning? As a teacher how would you want me to adapt what I do for you?

Do you have any experience teaching students with dyslexia?  I will be researching this over the coming weeks and would love to hear your experiences.

Many thanks

Witters

[Dood]

There's also been studies in to the existence of music notation Dyslexia too. Folk who may not be affected by "normal" Dyslexia finding that they struggle to read notation with similar symptoms. 

[TheGreek]

My niece's son has dyslexia - he's a good keyboard player (from aged 5 or 6). I'm not sure whether the same parts of the brain are used for reading and creativity.

[Brook_fan]

I do not have much experience with Teaching people with dyslexia that I can share.  Being a classroom music teacher, I do obviously teach children who are dyslexic, but almost everything I do can be done aurally without relevance on notation.  I have a friend in my band who is dyslexic, and she struggles with sight reading, so maybe don’t expect someone to instantly be able to play the dots you stick in front of them.

My 11 year old son is quite severely dyslexic, and went to a specialist school.  He now has a reading age of 10, which is brilliant.  He’s not a musician, yet, but I do find he is a very creative young man.

Everyone learns in different ways, that is the most important thing to remember- aural, kimestetic, visual etc.  Just talk with your students and find out what helps them learn, and adapt accordingly.  

Hope this helps maybe,

Robbie

[project_c]

On 19/10/2018 at 13:17, Witters said:

I am noticing a growing number of dyslexic music students coming my way.  Now, I know very little about this aside from changing the colour of paper music is printed on or over-laying coloured sheets, or covering some of the music.  My guess is dyslexia comes in various forms/guises and my approach will need to be tailor made for each student.

Anybody here dyslexic? What helps you?  How do you approach learning? As a teacher how would you want me to adapt what I do for you?

Do you have any experience teaching students with dyslexia?  I will be researching this over the coming weeks and would love to hear your experiences.

Many thanks

Witters

I teach a huge number of people who have dyslexia (graphic arts rather than music but they have to submit written theory work alongside the practical stuff). In very general terms you just need to take it a bit slower and consider that certain things which are logical and straightforward to you may not instantly make sense to someone who has dyslexia / dyspraxia.

[Dad3353]

8 hours ago, Brook_fan said:

...
Everyone learns in different ways, that is the most important thing to remember- aural, kinaesthetic, visual etc.  Just talk with your students and find out what helps them learn, and adapt accordingly.  ...

Fixed. 

[Brook_fan]

1 minute ago, Dad3353 said:

Fixed. 

Whoops, sorry, missed that 🤭

[Witters]

This is great, folks!

Thank you. 

 

[josie]

You're right about the coloured paper / overlays, but they don't work for everyone, and when they do, it's different colours for different people, so experiment for each student and see what works best for each one individually. Many people with dyslexia have associated visual stress ("scotopic sensitivity") but not all. Nor is everyone with scotopic sensitivity dyslexic. I'm highly biassed *towards* written language, and read everything on light blue paper or screen when I can. 

One thing I've noticed in working with dyslexic university students is that there seems to be actually quite a strong correlation with their preferences in style of music. I love the Baroque - I love listening to the structure of the music - anything from the Romantic period sounds to me sloppy and slushy. My dyslexic students (those who had any opinion) have all loved those heavy lush sounds, and found the Baroque too dry and sterile. I don't know of any studies on this, and it's a small sample, but it makes sense.

If my hunch is right, you might find that dyslexic music students would find it easier to relate to the tone-colours in chords than the linear patterns in scales and arpeggios. Whereas I find chords a bit of a mush, and enjoy ornamented scale exercises and walking basslines. 

This is *purely* a hunch based on limited experience - I'd love someone to study it properly. 

[Witters]

7 hours ago, josie said:

You're right about the coloured paper / overlays, but they don't work for everyone, and when they do, it's different colours for different people, so experiment for each student and see what works best for each one individually. Many people with dyslexia have associated visual stress ("scotopic sensitivity") but not all. Nor is everyone with scotopic sensitivity dyslexic. I'm highly biassed *towards* written language, and read everything on light blue paper or screen when I can. 

One thing I've noticed in working with dyslexic university students is that there seems to be actually quite a strong correlation with their preferences in style of music. I love the Baroque - I love listening to the structure of the music - anything from the Romantic period sounds to me sloppy and slushy. My dyslexic students (those who had any opinion) have all loved those heavy lush sounds, and found the Baroque too dry and sterile. I don't know of any studies on this, and it's a small sample, but it makes sense.

If my hunch is right, you might find that dyslexic music students would find it easier to relate to the tone-colours in chords than the linear patterns in scales and arpeggios. Whereas I find chords a bit of a mush, and enjoy ornamented scale exercises and walking basslines. 

This is *purely* a hunch based on limited experience - I'd love someone to study it properly. 

Fascinating!  I will make notes and share.  As an aside, my favourite period is also Baroque, particularly Bach.  Another area I’d like to spend time studying! There is a wonderful Masterclass by Benjamin Zander of The Boston Symphony Orchestra on the famous Prelude from the 1st Cello Suite on youtube. 

 

[T-Bay]

I work in a special school and have been teaching a large number of dyslexics for over two decades, some great advice above, I would add that making everything larger, as you may do for someone visually impaired, may also help as it increases separation of the characters. For some dyslexics, the covering of one eye can help in the initial learning phases. It won’t work for many but is so easy to try it’s worth a go. Many people with dyslexia are superb at working around by using their memories and other tricks and systems that will be personal to them so try as many strategies as you can and see what works for them. Above all be flexible to their needs. The very fact you have bothered to ask shows you are open to finding new ways to help them so I am sure you will be fine.

Edited October 22, 2018 by T-Bay

[Owen]

I also teach. My present challenge is getting pupils who are dyspraxic to "hear" rhythm. It has beaten me

Not all pupils who are dyspraxic cannot hear rhythm, obviously. But I have two who are and just cannot hear it.  I have discussed it on the board before but would welcome any further input. Sorry, not trying to derail - but they do sit under the same umberalla, so to speak.

[josie]

 

10 hours ago, T-Bay said:

For some dyslexics, the covering of one eye can help in the initial learning phases. It won’t work for many but is so easy to try it’s worth a go. 

A study last year found that in non-dyslexic people the arrangements of visual receptor cells in the two eyes are slightly different, and one eye is dominant (usually the right). In many dyslexics the arrangement is the same in both eyes, so neither is dominant, leading to confusion in visual processing and perception. So it would make perfect sense for covering one eye to help. In fact it ought to be more widely recommended. 

 

 

[Witters]

2 hours ago, owen said:

I also teach. My present challenge is getting pupils who are dyspraxic to "hear" rhythm. It has beaten me

Not all pupils who are dyspraxic cannot hear rhythm, obviously. But I have two who are and just cannot hear it.  I have discussed it on the board before but would welcome any further input. Sorry, not trying to derail - but they do sit under the same umberalla, so to speak.

Sorry to hear that, but I agree, it’s all “Under the same umbrella”; we are all trying to find ways to help each other.

All ideas, thoughts, concerns, suggestions are welcome.  The more we talk about these things the better we are able to support each other.  Having had a quick read of the definition of “dyspraxia” how do they cope with playing an instrument?  How do they respond to music?  Sounds like a greater challenge than dyslexia (I have no idea), but I guess dyspraxia comes in different degrees, too?

[josie]

2 hours ago, owen said:

I also teach. My present challenge is getting pupils who are dyspraxic to "hear" rhythm. It has beaten me

Not all pupils who are dyspraxic cannot hear rhythm, obviously. But I have two who are and just cannot hear it.  I have discussed it on the board before but would welcome any further input. Sorry, not trying to derail - but they do sit under the same umberalla, so to speak.

Not OT at all, they definitely do. I've just been poking around 't internet and found these, you may already know them:

Basic explanation from the Dyspraxia Foundation. Mentions "Little sense of time, speed, distance or weight. Leading to difficulties driving, cooking" and "Lack of rhythm when dancing, doing aerobics". 

"Strategies for Creating Inclusive Programmes of Study" from the University of Worcester includes a page on Music and Students with Dyspraxia, with further links on different aspects. 

There's a conversation on Reddit about music lessons for children with dyspraxia. 

And there's a piece on the "Understood" website - resources for inclusion of children with "learning & attention issues" - on different musical instruments and the type of coordination skills they require. 

None of these say anything about how to teach an awareness of rhythm though... 

 

[Owen]

What is hugely frustrating for one of them is that he is a technically proficient guitarist, he has a full chord knowledge and REALLY wants it. But we cannot nail the rhythmic aspect down. 

[Owen]

In my very limited understanding, dyspraxia can be physical (spatial awareness and cordination etc etc) and also inside the head (judgement of how much time a task will take etc etc). The response to music seems no more idiosyncratic than anyone else.

[T-Bay]

57 minutes ago, josie said:

 

A study last year found that in non-dyslexic people the arrangements of visual receptor cells in the two eyes are slightly different, and one eye is dominant (usually the right). In many dyslexics the arrangement is the same in both eyes, so neither is dominant, leading to confusion in visual processing and perception. So it would make perfect sense for covering one eye to help. In fact it ought to be more widely recommended. 

 

 

Thanks for that link! It’s something I came across it entirely by accident many years ago and have mentioned it to as many people as I can over the intervening years, sometimes to be met with sceptism, so it’s good to see some evidence to back it up as it’s been a game changer on a couple of occasions.

[josie]

42 minutes ago, T-Bay said:

Thanks for that link! It’s something I came across it entirely by accident many years ago and have mentioned it to as many people as I can over the intervening years, sometimes to be met with sceptism, so it’s good to see some evidence to back it up as it’s been a game changer on a couple of occasions.

If you want the original research paper it's in the Proceedings of the Royal Society 2017

 

[Witters]

Excellent @josie! Thank you.  Some great responses and advice.  I know where my half term is going!

[Owen]

I am looking into the Dyspraxia issue this morning. We are running into the fact that recording with a distorted sound makes it harder to stay in time because it seems like the more Aural stimulation there is the more rhythmically disctracted the student gets. Interesting.

[Gael]

Hello from France, and sorry for my poor english.

I've just register on the forum in order to give you a few advices. I'm a specialized teacher working with pupils who have severe learning difficulties, including dyslexia for a lot of them, i've starting playing bass last week, and i suffer a very mild dyspraxia, enough to make playing guitar or any other instrument more difficult.

Well, dyslexia... I can only give you advice on the "reading letters" side, but there are things you can transpose to reading music. A few ideas :

 

- bigger pages (a3 instead of a4)

- larger fonts (16, 18 or 20 instead of the basic 12)

- larger spaces between the different notes of your tabs/sheets

- larger spacing between the lines (on your tabs or music sheets)

- (much) larger spacing between the different parts of your tabs vertically

 

At least, start with photocopying the sheets you give them on a3 papers. It would be a good starting point.

 

For the colors, as it's been said, it's different for everybody, but you could start with one line of your sheets/tabs = one color (choose contrasting colors), or at least alternate between two colors (a black line, a green line, a black line, a green line...) and the same thing for the notes/numbers (from left to right, one black note/number, one green note/number, one black note/number, one green note/number...). The colors i give are just exemples, ask them what color they are most (un)confortable with.

If it's not enough :

- if you're using sheets : one note = one color

- if you're using tabs : one number = one color

 

If possible, avoid red, and maybe yellow. It's not directly dyslexia related, but some of those pupils have a condition, not always detected, that makes it very difficult for them to "read" some colors (nothing worse for them than trying to read red letters on a yellow page).

 

To sum up : SPACE, CONTRAST, and MORE SPACE again, since they need "stability". A part of dyslexia (not the only one, and not everytime) is that letters (and notes, i imagine) seems like they were mixing / escaping. Have a look at this, it will take 3 seconds, and you'll see the things differently : https://gfycat.com/classichardinsect

 

My two cents, and only a transcription of what i know about the "reading" side. But i'm pretty shure it could help. There is an Open Office addon called "lirecouleur" in french : in one click, it adapts any text for dyslexic people (spacing between the letters, the words, the lines, bigger fonts, different colors for every letter / syllable / word / line, depending on your settings). It's very, very, very usefull, it can make miracles - not always, but it can. A lot of my pupils couldn't read without those adaptations. I have not  much IT skills, but the developper explained it's been very easy to code, since it automatizes really simple multiple tasks. My guess is that it wouldn't be really difficult for someone with coding knowledge to do the same thing with "guitar pro" or any other sheets or tabs software we use (including the "ultimate guitar" interface). That would be really awesome.

 

Sorry for the long answer, the poor english, i hope it'll help you or anybody who'd read this.

 

Au revoir 😉

 

Gael

 

 

[Gael]

Oh, one more things : reading rulers also can be very helpfull with some kids, and aldults to. It looks like this, and "highligts" the part to read, and separates it from the others :

It can also be found in the shape of a "window", very easy to make DIY at the dimensions of your staves :

 

Edited October 25, 2018 by Gael

[Witters]

7 hours ago, Gael said:

Hello from France, and sorry for my poor english.

I've just register on the forum in order to give you a few advices. I'm a specialized teacher working with pupils who have severe learning difficulties, including dyslexia for a lot of them, i've starting playing bass last week, and i suffer a very mild dyspraxia, enough to make playing guitar or any other instrument more difficult.

Well, dyslexia... I can only give you advice on the "reading letters" side, but there are things you can transpose to reading music. A few ideas :

 

- bigger pages (a3 instead of a4)

- larger fonts (16, 18 or 20 instead of the basic 12)

- larger spaces between the different notes of your tabs/sheets

- larger spacing between the lines (on your tabs or music sheets)

- (much) larger spacing between the different parts of your tabs vertically

 

At least, start with photocopying the sheets you give them on a3 papers. It would be a good starting point.

 

For the colors, as it's been said, it's different for everybody, but you could start with one line of your sheets/tabs = one color (choose contrasting colors), or at least alternate between two colors (a black line, a green line, a black line, a green line...) and the same thing for the notes/numbers (from left to right, one black note/number, one green note/number, one black note/number, one green note/number...). The colors i give are just exemples, ask them what color they are most (un)confortable with.

If it's not enough :

- if you're using sheets : one note = one color

- if you're using tabs : one number = one color

 

If possible, avoid red, and maybe yellow. It's not directly dyslexia related, but some of those pupils have a condition, not always detected, that makes it very difficult for them to "read" some colors (nothing worse for them than trying to read red letters on a yellow page).

 

To sum up : SPACE, CONTRAST, and MORE SPACE again, since they need "stability". A part of dyslexia (not the only one, and not everytime) is that letters (and notes, i imagine) seems like they were mixing / escaping. Have a look at this, it will take 3 seconds, and you'll see the things differently : https://gfycat.com/classichardinsect

 

My two cents, and only a transcription of what i know about the "reading" side. But i'm pretty shure it could help. There is an Open Office addon called "lirecouleur" in french : in one click, it adapts any text for dyslexic people (spacing between the letters, the words, the lines, bigger fonts, different colors for every letter / syllable / word / line, depending on your settings). It's very, very, very usefull, it can make miracles - not always, but it can. A lot of my pupils couldn't read without those adaptations. I have not  much IT skills, but the developper explained it's been very easy to code, since it automatizes really simple multiple tasks. My guess is that it wouldn't be really difficult for someone with coding knowledge to do the same thing with "guitar pro" or any other sheets or tabs software we use (including the "ultimate guitar" interface). That would be really awesome.

 

Sorry for the long answer, the poor english, i hope it'll help you or anybody who'd read this.

 

Au revoir 😉

 

Gael

 

 

Thank you for this, very helpful.  The link you provided is really quite unsettling, how those with severe problems cope, I have no idea. Anyone even slightly curious should try it.

Your English is much better than my French and your  “advices” come across very clearly.  I will keep all advice in mind as best I can.

[Brook_fan]

Some great replies here, especially from Gael. As well as being dyslexic my boy is also dyspraxia, though probably not as severe as some children.  However, like the new character in Dr Who, he does have problems riding a bike!  Not good at catching a ball either.

With regard to the coloured paper, many dyslexics now wear glasses with special tinted lenses, like my son,  Many opticians now can help greatly with dyslexics, so it might be worth suggesting to students they talk to an optitician.

Rob