la bam Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 34 minutes ago, warwickhunt said: Really... What do you struggle with? You simply don't whack the gain/volume/output on full (saying that I always ran my power amp on full and controlled the input gain for a clean signal), I know loads of people who run big power amps into cabs of a couple hundred watts... it is simple and safe. As for why buy a higher powered amp than you need; headroom, future-proofing, etc etc. I'd ask why buy a smaller amp than you 'might' need in the future? That's not right though is it. You need to find out how it's giving out 2000w. Just guessing, but I'd imagine that's bridged at 4ohm. To get that output, you'd need a 4ohm cab and to not only run the amp in bridged mode, (selector switch is/menu) but more than likely need a bridged cable too (different speakon connection). Just plugging a power amp into an 8ohm cab is probably running stereo about 250-350w per side. So if you run from one side into your cab, that's what your getting. Not 2000w. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bam Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 34 minutes ago, warwickhunt said: Really... What do you struggle with? You simply don't whack the gain/volume/output on full (saying that I always ran my power amp on full and controlled the input gain for a clean signal), I know loads of people who run big power amps into cabs of a couple hundred watts... it is simple and safe. As for why buy a higher powered amp than you need; headroom, future-proofing, etc etc. I'd ask why buy a smaller amp than you 'might' need in the future? That's not right though is it. You need to find out how it's giving out 2000w. Just guessing, but I'd imagine that's bridged at 4ohm. To get that output, you'd need a 4ohm cab and to not only run the amp in bridged mode, (selector switch is/menu) but more than likely need a bridged cable too (different speakon connection). Just plugging a power amp into an 8ohm cab is probably running stereo about 250-350w per side. So if you run from one side into your cab, that's what your getting. Not 2000w. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 6 hours ago, la bam said: That's hardly 2000w though. Neither is the Bugera The point stands, 'though: I could use an amp capable of delivering a million watts... I don't want to play any louder than I already do, so I would set the amp to a setting that will not put a million watts into my cabs. You need an amplifier capable of delivering the power you need, with cabs that can use that power, and it does not matter much what's the maximum an amplifier can produce. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebozzz Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 10 hours ago, la bam said: I struggle to believe you've run an amp at 2000w into a standard 200w cab. Or if you are, your not running it bridged, and/or are not using a bridged cable. This brings it down from 2000w to around 300w (8ohm running one side) as a guess. I regularly use a pair of Genz Benz GB-12T 112 cabs with my Veyron. They're 8 ohm and rated at 150 watts RMS. Never had a problem getting enough volume for my needs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebozzz Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 4 hours ago, mcnach said: Neither is the Bugera Are you sure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebozzz Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 10 hours ago, la bam said: That's not right though is it. You need to find out how it's giving out 2000w. Just guessing, but I'd imagine that's bridged at 4ohm. To get that output, you'd need a 4ohm cab and to not only run the amp in bridged mode, (selector switch is/menu) but more than likely need a bridged cable too (different speakon connection). Just plugging a power amp into an 8ohm cab is probably running stereo about 250-350w per side. So if you run from one side into your cab, that's what your getting. Not 2000w. The 2000 watts isn't RMS or continuous power. Bugera states that is a peak rating. There's a difference between peal and RMS... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 And a Nissan Micra will still do 138mph...if you can find a cliff high enough to drop one off... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bam Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 sorry, i meant the power amp he was referring to, not the bugera. I use a QSC 1450rmx and regularly adjust its settings and cables to the cab im using at that time. Just explaining that plugging into a power amp, can be a different game to plugging in to a designated bass amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 All this stuff about names is bunkum, I remember people somewhere writing in disbelief that DG amps didn’t actually have oompah loompah sized tubes in its pedals or amps, and how it’s misleading. Is a precision bass any more precise than a jazz, and can a jazz only be used for jazz. Do your research on the sound (not just looking at figures), evaluate no matter what the name it’s given, use your ears - it’s really simple. There are great people on here but their sound is their sound. I may hate their stuff, they may hate my stuff, wouldn’t make either of us change. So many good guitarists and bassists through time have used unfashionable stuff not many others would touch but sound mint. Very simple 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 31 minutes ago, la bam said: Just explaining that plugging into a power amp, can be a different game to plugging in to a designated bass amp. ...but it isn't any different! The actual output of a designated/dedicated bass amp is governed by the balance/set-up between input gain and output attenuator (often just labelled 'volume'). The output from a power amp is likewise governed by preamp gain settings feeding the power amp input and then the power amp output/volume control(s). You can get dedicated bass amps from 20w to 1000w+ and likewise power amps start at a couple hundred watts up to several thousand watts (regardless of whether you use peak/prog/cont/RMS) but they all have controls on the front and back end that allow you to feed the amount of power you want to put into your cab... and the user decides how much of that is required. Either way the Bugera amp has at least a couple of hundred 'real/everyday' watts (probably around 500w) but certainly not the 2000 watts it claims (if we use the commonly expected use of the term of power). They are a bit naughty (IMHO) for claiming 2000w but it's something we've come to expect. I for one wouldn't think at £200 you are going to get that figure but I'm fairly well informed and newbies might be fooled. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 5 hours ago, ebozzz said: Are you sure? Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebozzz Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 2 hours ago, mcnach said: Yes How so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebozzz Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 2 hours ago, warwickhunt said: Either way the Bugera amp has at least a couple of hundred 'real/everyday' watts (probably around 500w) but certainly not the 2000 watts it claims (if we use the commonly expected use of the term of power). They are a bit naughty (IMHO) for claiming 2000w but it's something we've come to expect. I for one wouldn't think at £200 you are going to get that figure but I'm fairly well informed and newbies might be fooled. The company claims that it's 2000 watts "PEAK". You can prove with absolute certainty that it's not, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebozzz Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 4 hours ago, Muzz said: And a Nissan Micra will still do 138mph...if you can find a cliff high enough to drop one off... And, the Veyrons may very well be 2000 watts peak without the cliff.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 (edited) It may well be 2000w peak, it's still a shameless Marketing tactic to quote the biggest number they can for the output in an attempt to, as has been observed above, fool newbies. As I say, it's a common approach from the low-rent end of the market (see Tandy and Amstrad above). A good friend of mine has one. It's a very capable 3-500w amp, he's had it a few months, and it hasn't broken down. Edited November 14, 2018 by Muzz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bam Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, warwickhunt said: ...but it isn't any different! The actual output of a designated/dedicated bass amp is governed by the balance/set-up between input gain and output attenuator (often just labelled 'volume'). The output from a power amp is likewise governed by preamp gain settings feeding the power amp input and then the power amp output/volume control(s). They ARE different though! A dedicated bass head say off 500w RMS will give all its power out of one output - 500w with a 4Ohm cab, and approx 250w with an 8ohm cab....and thats pretty much that. A dedicated power amp (take the QSC 1450) will work in 2 different ways. It will give its output out of 2 outputs - 500w per channel with a 4 ohm cab, apprx 250w per channel with an 8ohm cab.....thats if you are using a standatrd speakon cable with the amp in stereo mode. So as you can only use one channel (if youre using one cab), thats all you will get - between 250-500w. BUT, flick it to bridged mode, and use a dedicated (wired differently) speakon cable and youll get approx DOUBLE that from one channel - channel A.So youre now at approx 1000w with a 40hm cab and 500w with an 8ohm cab with all that coming from just the one output. Thats how if you think youre using a 2000w power amp with a 200w cab, I actually think youre probably using it in stereo mode at 250-500w output. I might be wrong though, but some people dont understand how power amps work differently from designated bass guitar ones. Hopefully the above shows how you can get approx double the output from the same channel, depending on how you actually set the amp up. In theory, the difference could be huge - using an 8ohm cab in stereo mode the amp would give a max of 250w, using a 4ohm cab in bridged mode could give you 4 times the power at 1000w - all from the same amp. So it isnt just the volume dial of the power amp you have to take into consideration. Edited November 14, 2018 by la bam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Thanks for the above. Lays down the point, do due diligence and research (likely more than forum debates) you will decrease your variables to get where you need to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebozzz Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Muzz said: It may well be 2000w peak, it's still a shameless Marketing tactic to quote the biggest number they can for the output in an attempt to, as has been observed above, fool newbies. As I say, it's a common approach from the low-rent end of the market (see Tandy and Amstrad above). A good friend of mine has one. It's a very capable 3-500w amp, he's had it a few months, and it hasn't broken down. Yes, only the "low-rent end" is guilty of that practice..... https://www.trickfishamps.com/amplifiers/bullhead-1k/ Quote Bullhead 1K Specifications Power Output: (8 Ohms) 1000 Watts Peak .05% THD Power Amplifier: Class D Power Supply: Switch-Mode Power Supply Pre-Amp: Low noise solid state Input: ¼’ Phone with switchable attenuation and rotary gain control Input Level Indicator: 10 Segment LED Ladder EQ: 4 Band Switchable Shelving Bass and Treble with selectable Hi-Pass frequencies Low-Mid and Hi –Mid -Variable Gain, Band Pass EQ with selectable frequency/ bandwidth options Master Volume: Rotary Control Line In: 1/8” mini jack Headphone Out: Stereo ¼” Phone jack Mute Switch AC Mains Power Switch with LED Indicator EFX Loop: Series/Parallel selectable, w/ground lift Tuner Out: ¼” Phone Jack Mute Footswitch: ¼” Phone Jack, Latching type switch Direct Out: 600 Ohm Balanced, XLR, Pre/Post, Ground Lift and Level control Speaker Outputs: 2 x Neutrik Combi-Connectors accept NL2, NL4 or ¼” Phone Chassis: Aluminum Removable Rubber Feet: Adhesive backed Rack Ears (Optional) : Buy Now Size: (H x W x D in.) 3.3 x 15.1 x 8 (H x W x D mm) 86.06 x 384.15 x 203.2 Weight: 6.2 lbs. Warranty: 5 year limited Edited November 14, 2018 by ebozzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 As I say, it's a common approach from the low-rent end of the market (see Tandy and Amstrad above). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebozzz Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Muzz said: A good friend of mine has one. It's a very capable 3-500w amp, he's had it a few months, and it hasn't broken down. By the way, my Veyron performs better than any 500 watts Class D amp that I've ever owned. Had mine for WELL over 3 years with no issues..... Edited November 14, 2018 by ebozzz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebozzz Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, Muzz said: As I say, it's a common approach from the low-rent end of the market (see Tandy and Amstrad above). Yes, Trickfish is really low end..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 I was interested to see the lack of witch hunt which the Trickfish engendered on TB, after the months of pitchfork-waving a few years ago which greeted the news that the TC amp power ratings were, let's say, optimised. Granted, TC's method was a little more convoluted, but even so... Interestingly, the Bullhead .5k is quoted at Continuous Power (although it mentions '1404w Peak'), where the 1k isn't. Presumably they didn't want their cheaper amp sounding more powerful than their premium offering. Putting the Tricky in Trickfish...caveat emptor, and all that 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebozzz Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 (edited) I've never tried either of the Trickfish amps but I know of a few people that own one them. They seem to love them. I'm not trying to bash that manufacturer by any means. My point is that what Bugera has done using only Peak values is not unique to Bugera. If there's no standard for amp specifications, then companies will provide data however they feel is most appropriate for there needs. I really didn't think much about the claimed wattage of the Veyrons when I made my purchase. An acquaintance told me that it was a nice amp, I got what I felt was an acceptable deal from a vendor with an excellent return policy and made the decision to give it a try. It's worked out well for me. My approach would have been the same with an amp that had what many would consider to be respectable amp ratings. When put to the test, it would still have to perform at a high level! Edited November 14, 2018 by ebozzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 That friend of mine is enjoying his...he wanted a Streamliner (after he'd heard the one I had) but when he saw the price of the Behringer he bought one, and it's worked for him. He did say "2000w my a*se", though... 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebozzz Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 (edited) How would he know it's not 2000 watts "PEAK"? I've only got three amps currently, Quilter Bass Block, Ashdown Rootmaster 800 EVO and my Veyron M. The Ashdown and the Quilter are rated at 800 watts RMS @ 4 ohms. My Veyron M has a different character but it is comparable to the other two regarding performance in my opinion. All that being said, I don't have a clue what the watts are. Bugera says 2000 watts peak so that's what I use. Whatever it is, it's a nice amp... Edited November 14, 2018 by ebozzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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