TheGreek Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) I struggled with modes for a while - too much info for both of my brain cells to manage - but with the help of Scott Devine's website and the video Nick Smith recorded for us at the Herts Bash a couple of years ago I finally decided to challenge myself a bit and learn them. Not as difficult as I thought, I do find myself slipping back into the major scale if I don't concentrate enough though. Does anybody else find that some sound weird? I'm thinking the Em7 scale (Phrygian) in particular... I'm also curious to whether anybody actually uses them and where/how? Edited October 23, 2018 by TheGreek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Listen to Miles Davis fusion or jazz rock period. I'm using modes for decades and, hélas, don't find them weird. That said i find the tone by tone scale very musical. I know, I must be weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 And the funny think is that it's a Greek invention. 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 You are repeating yourself Mick, you already used it in the "Elwray Infinga 4 Bass - Reviews" last week. Too much modes, maybe ? That said the Phrygian one sounds pretty musical to me, except on an Em7 : funny again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftybassman392 Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, Hellzero said: And the funny think is that it's a Greek invention. 🤣 Not quite in the sense that statement suggests. As used by the Ancient Greeks, modes were altogether different from what members of this forum will be used to. I won't bore people with tedious detail (if you're interested you can check out the original articles that I wrote in the Theory & Technique forum), but as with so many musical terms we have taken from the Greeks, the word effectively has different meanings. Modern modes are descendants of the Ecclesiastical Modes, which as the name suggests were first formulated in the Christian church. Edit to Add: Clarification. In fairness, the Greeks did lay the foundations for what became the Ecclesiastical modes, but they didn't think about them in the way we do is the point. It wasn't until the medieval period that the modes as we know them today were formalised. Further edit: The ancient Greeks actually had no word for 'mode'. The word we use comes from the Latin word 'modus'. Edited October 24, 2018 by leftybassman392 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PawelG Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 This is great. They all sound great depending how/where you use them. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Intro to the original Doctor Who theme; a lovely bit of Phrygian. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 13 minutes ago, lowdown said: Intro to the original Doctor Who theme; a lovely bit of Phrygian. Didn’t they fight with the Daleks on Phrygia? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 I know someone who's Phrygid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 8 hours ago, fleabag said: I know someone who's Phrygid if you're talking about Mrs Fleabag, she's not. 😃 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 29 minutes ago, jacko said: if you're talking about Mrs Fleabag, she's not. 😃 I think he was rather referring to a certain Mrs Jacko, whoever that may be. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus Lukin Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 (edited) - Edited February 27, 2022 by Jus Lukin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Dad3353 said: I think he was rather referring to a certain Mrs Jacko, whoever that may be. Why have an affair with someone who is Phrygid. Much more fun if they fancy Aeolian 😉 I'll get me coat... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 I use them all the time when embellishing basslines, to make sure what I'm playing is in tune with the rest of the song For instance, in Treasure by Bruno Mars, at the end of the verse phrase I'll play notes in the Lydian mode as the verse ends on the fourth of the Ab major Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliasMooseblaster Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 If we're just talking about the modes of the major scale... The Ionian ("major"), Mixolydian and Aelioan ("natural minor") are probably the most commonly heard. In fact, the Mixolydian and Aeolian probably make up the majority of pop and rock music. (The flattened 7th in the Mixolydian lends itself to a lot of modern chord progressions, and when did you last hear something on the radio that used the melodic or harmonic minor?) Given their similarity to major and minor scales, you can write with the Dorian and Lydian relatively easily. The Dorian sounds particularly good in a folk context; the Lydian gives you a slightly more wistful-sounding major-ish palette. The Phrygian is handier than you might think. It sounds very "Spanish," but if you look closely you see that it still contains all the notes from the minor pentatonic. You could let your guitarist widdle freely in the Phrygian over a 12-bar blues, as long as you warn the rhythm players to stay off the 9ths. ...and then there's the Locrian. Always the last one to get picked for the team, but I'm led to believe that Bjork used it to great effect in Army of Me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 1 minute ago, EliasMooseblaster said: ...and then there's the Locrian. Always the last one to get picked for the team, but I'm led to believe that Bjork used it to great effect in Army of Me. Used a lot in metal, Slayer and Metallica have both made liberal use of it - all those flattened 3rds and 5ths Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben4343 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 9 minutes ago, Graham said: Used a lot in metal, Slayer and Metallica have both made liberal use of it - all those flattened 3rds and 5ths I was considering this on my commute to work this morning actually... Do you think bands typically know that they are making liberal use of a particular mode and target/write towards it specifically, or do they simply create/iterate towards/have an inherent sense of what will sound good and musical theorists are able to work out why it sounds good/appropriate, after the fact? My own case is definitely the latter, although I freely admit how good it sounds is up for debate. That Anthony Wellington video blew my mode-ignorant mind by the way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lord Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 (edited) One of the most practical and basic uses of modes for a bass player is quickly identifying which scale tones are diatonic (and therefore likely to be appropriate) when playing over diatonic chords within a particular key i.e. if you know what an octave of lydian looks like under your left hand (major with a sharp 4), and you're playing over a 'C major' chord in the key of G major, you can probably whip out some notes of C lydian, according to your taste. Knowing that you have to sharpen that 4th in order to stay consistent with the key of the song will at least stop you dropping clangers. Whenever I get to a D minor chord in the key of C major, I know I can grab for that major 6th and do something with it (because we're momentarily in the realm of D dorian). It just gives you some options. So, knowing how modes are formed can help even if you're not playing modal music Edited October 24, 2018 by Bob Lord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 1 hour ago, thepurpleblob said: Why have an affair with someone who is Phrygid. Much more fun if they fancy Aeolian 😉 I'll get me coat... I had a minor affair with an Aeolian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftybassman392 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 37 minutes ago, Count Bassy said: I had a minor affair with an Aeolian No need to harp on about it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 4 hours ago, Dad3353 said: I think he was rather referring to a certain Mrs Jacko, whoever that may be. Dammit - have you got binoculars or something ?? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wylie Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 19 hours ago, TheGreek said: I struggled with modes for a while - too much info for both of my brain cells to manage - but with the help of Scott Devine's website and the video Nick Smith recorded for us at the Herts Bash a couple of years ago I finally decided to challenge myself a bit and learn them. Not as difficult as I thought, I do find myself slipping back into the major scale if I don't concentrate enough though. Does anybody else find that some sound weird? I'm thinking the Em7 scale (Phrygian) in particular... I'm also curious to whether anybody actually uses them and where/how? Each mode, or modal scale, contains all the notes of the key from which the mode is taken (and no others) but in a different order. In modern music we use mainly the major and minor modes, or scales; the relative minor--Am in the key of C, for instance--is by far the most dominant use of a mode. About the 'weird' sound of modes, in the key of C, play all the notes of the scale from D to D (instead of C to C). You'll have played D Dorian. And it will sound odd; the first three notes sound minor, but the scale ends sounding major. In jazz, especially, such variations can color a tune or passage very effectively. Others here obviously will (and have had, above) more and better info about using modes. W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clunkie66 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 19 hours ago, PawelG said: This is great. They all sound great depending how/where you use them. Brilliant. How simple does he make it all sound? Even my overstretched brain can handle that... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 The guy is talking a lot, but his approach is really brilliant ! I'll watch this again and translate in French or a friend of mine who never understood in 30 years, and I tried to explain, but he was only focused on the scales themselves. Now, I think he'll understand. Thanks a lot for this @PawelG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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