Consumer Rights

[DirkThrust]

I've got a six month old Precision with an unplayable neck by virtue of the fact that all the frets above the 12th fret are higher than the rest. Sighting down the neck it has a visible forward bow at the body end.

So tomorrow I'm going to return it to the shop where I bought it but I wondered what I am able to request that they do. Presumably since I've been playing it for six months I'm not entitled to a refund, and their technician has had it his workshop twice already and doesn't seem able to fix it.

So can I ask that they replace the neck or the whole bass? Any pointers on the laws that apply to this would be useful.

[bumnote]

[url="http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/calitem.cgi?file=adv0043-1011.txt"]http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin...dv0043-1011.txt[/url]

Buying goods - your rights


When you buy goods from a trader, such as a shop, market stall, garage, etc, you enter into a contract, which is controlled by many laws including, the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended by the Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994 and the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002). The law gives you certain implied, or automatic, statutory rights, under this contract.

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) says that goods should be as follows:

Of satisfactory quality
This means the goods must meet the standards that any reasonable person would expect, taking into account the description, the price and all other relevant information. In some circumstances, the retailer may be liable for any statement made by the manufacturer about the goods.

The shop is responsibe, dont let them fob you off with the manufacturer, its their responsibility to sort the problem out which could be either repair, or replacement, or refund,

Edited November 30, 2008 by bumnote

[skankdelvar]

+ 1 on the legals.

Although you've had it six months, it's already been back twice, so they can't say it's a new problem.

As regards the practicalities - well, they've tried in good faith to fix it but no joy. Your choice as noted above should be refund or replacement.

re: Replacement - If you only ask for a new neck, they may have to send the old one back to the MFR, leaving you with half a bass and a long wait. And it's the [i]whole bass [/i] that's unplayable, because of the neck.

Easier for everyone if they send the whole thing back and give you a new one off the wall. Saves them having to get money out of the till. And, subject to the legals above, I can't imagine you'd have to wait for a refund from the retailer while the mfr identifies the problem - doesn't matter [i]why[/i] it doesn't work properly - it just doesn't work.

Or you might want to get the cash back and buy a secondhand item that's been played in and is known to have no issues.

Have seen a number of comments recently about Fender neck bows - which Precision was it?

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='341130' date='Nov 30 2008, 02:01 PM']Or you might want to get the cash back and buy a secondhand item that's been played in and is known to have no issues.[/quote]

That's the only way I'd buy a Fender tbh. Had a new Jazz go bad in the past.

[DirkThrust]

Thanks for the replies. I had an idea in the back of my mind that after a certain period of time you don't have the right to an automatic refund. I'll be asking for a refund then.

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='341130' date='Nov 30 2008, 02:01 PM']Have seen a number of comments recently about Fender neck bows - which Precision was it?[/quote]

It's a 2008 US standard. The latest model. I've only played one other that was hanging in a shop and that had a neck like a banana. Reading the thread about overpriced American gear, maybe I've been lumbered with one of Fender's "export" basses

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='AndyMartin' post='341241' date='Nov 30 2008, 05:09 PM']It's a 2008 US standard. The latest model. I've only played one other that was hanging in a shop and that had a neck like a banana. Reading the thread about overpriced American gear, maybe I've been lumbered with one of Fender's "export" basses [/quote]

I read about the banana neck fenders on Harmony-Central - and these were American-bought Precisions. Maybe there are issues with rushing the wood to production before it's seasoned properly. Some similar issues with wood shrinkage and exposed fret-ends on the less expensive Gibson six strings - the "faded" jobs...

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='341521' date='Nov 30 2008, 11:03 PM']Basically, once you walk out the shop with it you have no right to an automatic refund whatsoever. You have a right for it to be repaired or replaced or to be refunded... but the choice between the three is the retailer's, not yours.[/quote]

Not true. If you return the goods "within a reasonable time" you can sk for your money back.

[url="http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/fact-sheets/page38311.html"]http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/.../page38311.html[/url]

[Prosebass]

I think the shop should be named and shamed.....anyone with any experience of good retail knows you never alienate a good customer. And this was not an inexpensive bass.
Method I have always employed is staying at the counter and telling everyone who comes in the story, usually works but then I am a grumpy old belligerent sod

Keep us all informed with the outcome Andy

[DirkThrust]

[quote name='Prosebass' post='341548' date='Nov 30 2008, 11:41 PM']I think the shop should be named and shamed.....anyone with any experience of good retail knows you never alienate a good customer. And this was not an inexpensive bass.
Method I have always employed is staying at the counter and telling everyone who comes in the story, usually works but then I am a grumpy old belligerent sod

Keep us all informed with the outcome Andy[/quote]

At this point in time I can't really criticize the shop. They've been pretty helpful in spite of the fact that they haven't been able to sort the problem. Mind you, they've had the bass for the best part of a month and still haven't put it right.

I'll see what they say tomorrow.

Having played Nigel's (bumnote's) Jap Precision I'm rapidly falling out of love with the US made ones. For nearly £900 it's just not good enough.

Edited December 1, 2008 by AndyMartin

[skankdelvar]

For a six month old neck, strung at normal tension to go bandy implies a manufacturing fault.

If the retailer has had it for a month and can't fix it, it would be interesting to know [i]exactly[/i] what they've been doing with it during that time.

I'd be (very politely) asking for specific details about their proposed remedies - because I can't think of many, short of a serious bit of neck clamping, hump-shaving or a fat re-fret. And even if it's fixed now, the problem could recur later.

Without knowing all the details, it's difficult to suggest possible courses of action, but if this was my bass, I'd be after a replacement or a refund flaming pronto. A quiet but firm meeting with a senior person in a back room is certainly in order - no informal chatting over the counter - and take a notepad.

Banana neck is a banana neck. And this on a [i]new £900.00 bass[/i]? It's not their fault, but the Retailer should definitely take this one on the chin - their beef should be with Fender.

Send for Shockwave - the punter's friend!

Edited December 1, 2008 by skankdelvar

[DirkThrust]

So I've finally resolved this.

I took the bass back to the shop and the tech agreed that it was faulty so he sent it back to Fender. About a week later it was returned with a new neck fitted. I had a quick noodle on it and it seemed Ok but the action was still on the high side. As I was going away on holiday the next day I was a bit pre-occupied and didn't really think too much about it.

When I got back at the beginning of Jan I tried dropping the action a bit but with the same result. The bridge saddles were bottomed out and with the action still high and fretting anywhere above the twelth fret just produced lots of rattle and not much else.

So back to the shop again. The tech took a quick look at it and said "Ok, I'll get it replaced". Apparently the Fender rep was in the next day. When I phoned they told me that the rep had agreed it was faulty and that Fender would replace it.

Unfortunately I was going abroad again the next day for work so it wasn't sorted out before I left. When I got back I stopped at the shop on the way back from Heathrow expecting the new one to be waiting for me only to be told "sorry they haven't got one in that colour".

So now I'm getting pretty annoyed, and my response was something along the lines of " I don't give a f*** what colour it is, I just want a replacement"

They did offer to replace it with anything else they had in the shop, so I tried a Lakland, which I found very underwhelming, and another USA standard Precision, which also had an action you could fly a small aircraft under, so I went for the replacement from Fender on the understanding that it would be decently set up before I came in to get it.

The new one is great. Not as playable as the Lakland I tried, but the fret ends don't rip my fingers to shreds. It's fairly lightweight, Olympic white, which I actually prefer to sunburst and with a really nice dark, close grained fretboard. So I'm pretty pleased.

What baffles me is that every other Fender in the shop, and they had Squier standards, classic vibe, VM, Mexican standards and re-issues and roadworn 50s reissues, was set up beautifully, but every USA standard Precision I've played, whether there or elsewhere has been an unplayable woofer. You'd think they'd take more care.

[LukeFRC]

has anyone ever found a jap fender with a bad neck?

[DirkThrust]

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='410383' date='Feb 15 2009, 08:08 PM']has anyone ever found a jap fender with a bad neck?[/quote]

I've owned a couple of Jap Fenders. One of them was a Squier silver series, the other was a 60s re-issue and they both had great necks. If it was possible to get Japs by any other way but grey import, that's all I'd own.

[bumfrog]

[quote name='AndyMartin' post='410378' date='Feb 15 2009, 08:03 PM']What baffles me is that every other Fender in the shop, and they had Squier standards, classic vibe, VM, Mexican standards and re-issues and roadworn 50s reissues, was set up beautifully, but every USA standard Precision I've played, whether there or elsewhere has been an unplayable woofer. You'd think they'd take more care.[/quote]

to be honest, I'd be more baffled why you didn't chose a bass that played better, rather then go for what it said on the headstock. If the american fenders you've played have all been as bad as you say, why bother getting one at all???

[DirkThrust]

[quote name='bumfrog' post='410761' date='Feb 16 2009, 09:33 AM']to be honest, I'd be more baffled why you didn't chose a bass that played better, rather then go for what it said on the headstock. If the american fenders you've played have all been as bad as you say, why bother getting one at all???[/quote]

Why does anyone buy a Fender? I buy them because I like them. The sound, the look and the playability when they are set up right. I still preferred the feel of a poorly set up Fender over a well set up Lakland.

Are you suggesting that the only criteria for buying a bass should be how it's set up in the shop? Why do you assume the only reason I would choose Fender is because it says Fender on the headstock?

[xilddx]

I had a serious problem with a brand new Strat Plus I bought in 1992. In rehearsals I would break up to two sets of strings a session. I took it back to the shop, they sent it back to Fender who said it was fine. Got some Graphtech saddles, same problem. Took it back again and said I want it looked at properly. Back it went to Fender again. They admitted there was a problem in that the neck was out of alignment. Fender eventually replaced it after a protracted argument.

Completely agree with older Jap Fenders, and Squiers. They are brilliant. The two Squier Silver Series I've had and the Jap Fender are/were all lovely.

[bumfrog]

[quote name='AndyMartin' post='411334' date='Feb 16 2009, 06:43 PM']Why does anyone buy a Fender? I buy them because I like them. The sound, the look and the playability when they are set up right. I still preferred the feel of a poorly set up Fender over a well set up Lakland.

Are you suggesting that the only criteria for buying a bass should be how it's set up in the shop? Why do you assume the only reason I would choose Fender is because it says Fender on the headstock?[/quote]

Depends on if you prefer feel over playability. Personally i'd play a no name peace of plywood if it played better then a named instrument, but that's just me.

Regardless of if you fall in to the category or not, people buy because of brand all the time, not based on what they are actually getting in physical reality.

To be honest, if a shop was trying to sell me anything and it wasn't set up properly, especially at a high price, I'd walk. It's a buyers market and you can afford to be choosy. If I'm spending good money on something, I want it to behave exactly as it should straight from word go. Other manufacturers can manage it, so why can't fender, especially if you are serious when you say that "very USA standard Precision I've played, whether there or elsewhere has been an unplayable woofer".

[DirkThrust]

[quote name='bumfrog' post='411536' date='Feb 16 2009, 10:00 PM']Depends on if you prefer feel over playability. Personally i'd play a no name peace of plywood if it played better then a named instrument, but that's just me.

Regardless of if you fall in to the category or not, people buy because of brand all the time, not based on what they are actually getting in physical reality.

To be honest, if a shop was trying to sell me anything and it wasn't set up properly, especially at a high price, I'd walk. It's a buyers market and you can afford to be choosy. If I'm spending good money on something, I want it to behave exactly as it should straight from word go. Other manufacturers can manage it, so why can't fender, especially if you are serious when you say that "very USA standard Precision I've played, whether there or elsewhere has been an unplayable woofer".[/quote]

Feel and playability aren't mutually exclusive. I'd rather have both, which I now do. I like Precisions in particular rather than Fenders in general and I've got one I like set up exactly the way I like and I got it locally and at the going price.

I'm sure you would play a piece of no name plywood over a known brand. So would I, but as yet I haven't found one and I doubt you have either.

Maybe people do buy because of brand. That subject has been discussed ad nauseum on various forums. I like what I like.

To be honest, no one has tried to sell me anything. I could have got a refund if I had pushed for it but that would have left me back at square one. The shop have always been helpful and the process has been moving in the right direction, if somewhat slowly.

Edited February 16, 2009 by AndyMartin