Fretless and Fretful, How to switch between the two "live"?

[Pirellithecat]

 

 

This is probably one of those really stupid questions with, for the experienced bass player, a bleeding obvious answer!

My preferred EQ settings for my two basses are very different and I'm not bright enough/quick enough/don't have sufficient memory, to easily adjust the EQ between numbers and don't want to faff around whilst in front of an audience.

What's the best way to achieve a seemless transition?

Many Thanks

I

[barkin]

EQ pedal? Multi-fx unit?  Loads of possibles, none of 'em necessarily correct/best/easiest...

[TheGreek]

As Barkin says, "lots of possibilities...

You could put both basses through a mini mixer (about £20) and something like a Behringer BDi21 modeller.

The mini mixer allows you to have two separate basses into the same amp. The first can be "unmolested". The modeller allows you to set the second bass (whichever this is) up in the second tone pattern without adjusting the amp settings.

You could also use a looper pedal as a splitter - again two channels into the same amp.

I use both methods, depending..

[EliasMooseblaster]

4 minutes ago, TheGreek said:

As Barkin says, "lots of possibilities...

You could put both basses through a mini mixer (about £20) and something like a Behringer BDi21 modeller.

I was just thinking of something like a BDI21 when you posted that! Those Behringers can be had pretty cheap; you could always use it to bypass the preamp by running the output into the effects return. That way only one bass "sees" the EQ on the your amp, and the other one has its EQ dealt with by the BDI21 (or similar), but both signals still go to the same power stage.

[Pirellithecat]

Thanks all,

So, using something like the Behringer BDI21, one bass goes into the normal input on the amp and the other goes into the BDI21 which in turn is plugged into ??the effects return?  Or do you just replace swap the leads over into the normal input when making the change.   If one uses a pre-amp pedal, can one place it in the return input of the effects send/return loop and then just use the foot switch to bypass it/use it?

As you might detect I have no idea about pedals etc!!

Hey Ho.

[pete.young]

43 minutes ago, Pirellithecat said:

Thanks all,

So, using something like the Behringer BDI21, one bass goes into the normal input on the amp and the other goes into the BDI21 which in turn is plugged into ??the effects return?  Or do you just replace swap the leads over into the normal input when making the change.   If one uses a pre-amp pedal, can one place it in the return input of the effects send/return loop and then just use the foot switch to bypass it/use it?

As you might detect I have no idea about pedals etc!!

Hey Ho.

It kinda depends on the effects loop too. Many are set up to be parallel, so you get a blend of the return and the amp pre-amp signal. If you've got a bass plugged into both, you need to be able to turn off the bass you're not using.

My preferred solution for this would be to use an LS-2, put one bass in one loop, and the other plus the BD121 in the other loop.

[Happy Jack]

I assume you already have an amp? If so, are you happy with it?

The 'perfect' solution (in so far as one exists) is a 2-channel amp, with each bass using its own channel and its own EQ.

Not cheap, but a complete answer.

 

[sprocketflup]

My own solution to this is a multi effects pedal with different patches. We don't use amps however so Im not too precious about my tone, as the soundman/PA usually colour it beyond recognition anyway. I use a wireless system and just unplug it when swapping basses.

If you want to have the two basses permanently plugged in, you could use a footswitch. Morley do a good one, which I can recommend as I use one of them too for an upright which stays plugged in.

[Pirellithecat]

Thanks for the helpful comments.

As you might have gathered I'm a little "tech averse"!! I'll check out the suggestions so far, and also see what I can find by way of 2 channel Bass amps.   Can anyone suggest any to check out? I'm fine with plugging the relevant bass in when needed, it's just the faffing about with the EQ that I want to avoid.  Might a 2 channel pre-amp also work for this, and if so are there any??

As to the LS-2, I guess this sits in the Effects Send/Receive loop?

 

 

 

[itu]

My Glockenklang Soul has two inputs and a switchable eq. Whatever my bassic needs are during the gig, I can quickly switch between active/passive or fretted/fretless or electric/double bass.

[barkin]

1 hour ago, sprocketflup said:

My own solution to this is a multi effects pedal 

Mine too. Zoom B3 with either a dedicated patch, or one of the 'virtual pedals' assigned to an EQ 'pedal'. Just mute eveything to swap basses.

[Delberthot]

I think that you are complicating things unnecessarily.

I have two completely different basses, a Musicman Sterling and a Rickenbacker. I set up my sound using the Musicman and then adjust the BDI21 to suit the Rick.

The BDI21 is off when I am using the Musicman and just functions as a DI and when I switch to the Rick, I turn on the BDI. Any sort of EQ pedal should do the same thing, the BDI21 just gives more options than, say, a Boss GEB7

[Pirellithecat]

Thanks.

How  is the BDI21 connected?   Is it via the effects loop? Same for Zoom B3?

I'll check out the Glockenklang Soul too.

Ta

[Painy]

Tech21 Programmable Bass Driver DI. 

Not as cheap an option as the Behringer but allows you to save an EQ setting (and volume level if there's any difference in volume between the basses) for each instrument. 

The only thing I'd say is that both this and the BDI21 have very much their own particular sound (they're very similar as the BDI21 is a very good budget copy of the standard Tech21 Bass Driver DI) so although it would allow you to set up 2 different tones, they may not actually be the tones that you're looking for. Plenty of demo's on YouTube to o give you an idea what they sound like though. 

 

[Lozz196]

That`s what I was going to suggest too, quality bits of kit. If the Sansamp tone isn`t for you then maybe a Zoom B3/B3n - similarly you can set up patches for each instrument.

[sprocketflup]

7 hours ago, barkin said:

Mine too. Zoom B3 with either a dedicated patch, or one of the 'virtual pedals' assigned to an EQ 'pedal'. Just mute eveything to swap basses.

Yep, that's what I use too

[Pirellithecat]

Well, I've had a look at some of the options mentioned above, and I think I've narrowed it down to 4 options.

1) Get over it and fiddle with the tone settings when playing "live" - bit of a faff but saves lots of £££

2) Buy a 2 Channel Amp to replace mine - simple option but not too many 2 input/2 channel amps I can find - any suggestions sub £500?? (second hand OK).

3) Get a Tech 21 SansAmp Bass Driver Deluxe (or a VT version of same) - solves 2 channel issue and is a one stop solution.  Probably not much difference between this and Option 2 in terms of £££ as I'd trade in my current amp.

4) Get a Radial Tonebone Bassbone OD 2-Channel Bass Preamp - ditto Option 3 but with a few more bells and whistles (esp if I pursue Double Bass in future).

All these options keep all the "fiddling" in one place, but are expensive.

Anyone experience of the above preamps - I'd welcome a steer!!

Thanks

P 

[fleabag]

My way round this is 2 basses into a switcher, then into my zoom, which apart from the usual chorus/phaser/wah fx etc,  has graphic presets. So, stomp on the ABY switcher to choose a channel, and stomp on the preset graphic on the zoom for that particular bass.

 

 

[fretmeister]

Does no one just draw the settings on the amp anymore?

 

Stickers and a pen?

[Paul S]

On 27/10/2018 at 13:51, Delberthot said:

I think that you are complicating things unnecessarily.

I have two completely different basses, a Musicman Sterling and a Rickenbacker. I set up my sound using the Musicman and then adjust the BDI21 to suit the Rick.

The BDI21 is off when I am using the Musicman and just functions as a DI and when I switch to the Rick, I turn on the BDI. Any sort of EQ pedal should do the same thing, the BDI21 just gives more options than, say, a Boss GEB7

 

That's what I would do - use a Behringer BS121 which will cost you under £20.  With the BD121 bypassed you could have the amp eq set for the fretted bass.  Then switch on the BS121 and adjust the settings of that so that it gives you the tone/volume adjustment needed for the fretless and just stomp between the two.   

 

[Pirellithecat]

OK ......  Bear with me for just a moment longer ........ otherwise it's going to be the tape and marker pen solution.

So how exactly do you connect the basses to the amplifier and the BDI21?  One bass into input on amplifier, other bass unplugged and then plugged in when needed, replacing the original one.  BDI21 in Effects loop? Stomped on after new bass added?

If it's that simple, then I'll give it a go.

Thanks for your patience ....

 

 

[Paul S]

I am sure someone who knows more about these things than i can chip in but, if it were me... assuming no other effect pedals... plug one end of the lead into your bass, the other into the input of the BD121.  Then take a lead from the output of the BD121 and plug the other end into the input socket of the amp.  The pedal is operated by a stomp switch - click on it and it turns it on, click again and it turns it off and is just as if you were plugged directly into the amp.  (Kind of)    So, with the BD121 switched off, set up the amp eq with bass A to your liking.  Then change basses to bass B, click on the BD121 to turn it on - red light comes on - and adjust the parameters of the eq/vol/drive etc on the BD121  to give you the tone and volume you are looking for with bass B.  Then, having now set it up to your liking you just simply click between these two settings as and when you need to.  Unplug bass A, plug lead into bass B, click on switch of BD121 - change back to bass A, stomp on switch to turn BD121 off - job done.  There will be issues of the clunk when you plug in and unplug your bass but that is another issue to be addressed if you need to.

Edited October 28, 2018 by Paul S

[Pirellithecat]

Thanks Paul.

[Paul S]

It may be that this doesn't do what you want but it wouldn't have cost you much cash and, in any case, a BD121 is a useful bit of kit to have in your gig bag 'just in case'.

[TheGreek]

Both basses into a Mini mixer. Something like this:

https://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/Behringer-MX400-Micromix-4-Channel-Mixer/6LZ?origin=product-ads&gclid=CjwKCAjwyOreBRAYEiwAR2mSkh20CBO-jaYtXJRokbg-w850j57XG1lqGgFxlYnu1gujkqUdnEcPVRoCJDAQAvD_BwE

Set the amp for one bass, then the BDi21 + the amp settings for the other. Cost is less than £50.