NAD: Darkglass Microtubules 900

[artisan]

Went to gear4music this morning to try this head out & I just can't get over how awesome it really is.

It must be impossible to make it sound bad,it is the best head I have ever used & the two distortions are fantastic too.

I had to sell my ctm100 due to having arthritis in my knees & was worried I would miss the "heft" but I am happy to report that this is one "heafty" mofo 😁

Just need to move my 4x10 & get a pair of 1x12's now.

[Beer of the Bass]

Looks nice, but I'm mostly enjoying the word "microtubules".

[Lozz196]

The bassist in The Cockney Rejects uses one of these, he gets a great sound from it. I think a lot of people associate the Darkglass products with gain/metal sounds but having heard said CR bassists tone they`re capable of some quality tones as well as the gainy stuff.

[artisan]

41 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

The bassist in The Cockney Rejects uses one of these, he gets a great sound from it. I think a lot of people associate the Darkglass products with gain/metal sounds but having heard said CR bassists tone they`re capable of some quality tones as well as the gainy stuff.

I agree Lozz,it has a very nice clean tone,so punchy & you can add as much of two overdrives as you want.

Great for funk 👍

[fretmeister]

I use mine in a big band playing swing and jazz. It’s a great amp.

[Al Krow]

Congrats on the new purchase and welcome aboard to the M900 owners club! 

Did you consider any alternatives before going for this?

The CTM100 is a much admired bit of kit, so it will be good to hear from you how it matches up, particularly on valve vs D-class tone when you've had a chance to "live with" the M900 for a little while. I used the drive pretty full-on at rehearsal last week on a couple of rocky numbers (e.g. Free - All Right Now) and it definitely got head turning attention from the rest of the band!

In terms of lightweight 1x12s, Orange have just bought out their new OBC-112s and if you do happen to get a chance to try those out with your M900 please let us know if they're a good match; I'm kinda tempted to go down that very same route myself  

[fretmeister]

I went with a pair of Barefaced One10 with mine.

 

Sounds great. Lovely and chewy and thick and articulate too. Great for jazz and big band, as well as rock,, metal etc.

 

and so very light weight. 

[Al Krow]

6 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

I went with a pair of Barefaced One10 with mine.

Sounds great. Lovely and chewy and thick and articulate too. Great for jazz and big band, as well as rock,, metal etc.

and so very light weight. 

Does sound like a very classy rig! Will two BF 110s handle the full 900W output from the DG M900?

[fretmeister]

I doubt it, but I’ve never needed to turn it up that much either.

 

Gets over a loud drummer and 20 odd piece brass section without breaking sweat. 

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, fretmeister said:

I doubt it, but I’ve never needed to turn it up that much either.

Gets over a loud drummer and 20 odd piece brass section without breaking sweat. 

OK. I'm just thinking that the OP is used to a 410 and I kinda feel that two 1x12s are going to be a closer match. 

[Cuzzie]

Let’s not get into that speaker cone size debate again.......

So many variables

Congrats on NAD

Edited October 28, 2018 by Cuzzie

[Al Krow]

46 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

Let’s not get into that speaker cone size debate again.......

So many variables

Congrats on NAD

Well, there is no debate here really. Obviously you need to match apples with apples. But take any BF 112 and put it against a single BF 110 and you'll get a bigger sound. 

Besides my point was actually a different one - about power handling and the ability of two BF 110s to handle the full 900W output of a DG M900. They are not designed to as has been confirmed. Any two BF 112s however will. 

Edited October 28, 2018 by Al Krow

[artisan]

Thanks guys.

On the subject of cabs I really fancy a pair or Vanderkley 112MNT's.

 

[Al Krow]

11 minutes ago, artisan said:

Thanks guys.

On the subject of cabs I really fancy a pair or Vanderkley 112MNT's.

I've been very happy indeed with pairing a VK 210LNT with my DG M900; so would have no hesitation in agreeing that two VK 112MNTs would be a great choice.

[artisan]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

I've been very happy indeed with pairing a VK 210LNT with my DG M900; so would have no hesitation in agreeing that two VK 112MNTs would be a great choice.

They look absolutely gorgeous too 😁

I'm mighty impressed with the amplifier though & can't wait for tomorrow night's rehearsal,even in the house at very low volume it sounds fantastic,I'm so happy I bought it.

I did try an EBS Reidmar 750 too but after playing the DG is sounded incredibly bland. I'm sure they are fantastic amplifiers too but just not after hearing the DG. Even the clean channel sounds so musical,who needs a valve amp 😁

[Al Krow]

3 minutes ago, artisan said:

They look absolutely gorgeous too 😁

I'm mighty impressed with the amplifier though & can't wait for tomorrow night's rehearsal,even in the house at very low volume it sounds fantastic,I'm so happy I bought it.

I did try an EBS Reidmar 750 too but after playing the DG is sounded incredibly bland. I'm sure they are fantastic amplifiers too but just not after hearing the DG. Even the clean channel sounds so musical,who needs a valve amp 😁

If you listen to middle section of this clip (1.10 to 3.20) you can hear my DG M900 paired with a VK210 (either side of that I'm playing through a Markbass AC 121 Lite); certainly no difficulty whatsoever in keeping up with a full band

 

[Cuzzie]

@artisan good luck with getting your cabs VK’s are great.

@Al Krow are you sure about those figures regarding the BF One10s?

 

[Al Krow]

10 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

 

@Al Krow are you sure about those figures regarding the BF One10s?

Well Alex's recommendation is up to 250W RMS for the 110 although he says it's "safe" when used clean up to 500W; but clearly the OP enjoys using a fair bit of dirt too (based both on his comments and the settings in his pic!). 

So if he wanted to ramp up his volume for a larger venue and/or louder gig and engage the B3K or VMT drive I'd be nervous about using two 110s with a fully unleashed DG M900.

It's kinda academic though; the two VK 112 MNTs he's looking to get should handle the DG M900 at full pelt with ease.

[Cuzzie]

But thats precisely the point dear Al.

What you said was mis-informed and plain wrong, and at that point we didn’t know they were after VK’s, and with the drive only just past noon and the blend more towards clean, gain not maxed and vol on about 1, it’s hardly extreme settings.

Daisy chaining 2 of those cabs brings it manageable in its normal mode, however the conscession I will make is that if you flip the switch to 2ohms like you can on this amp, the sound you get with that Cab combination will be way punchier and better.

As a stickler for details Al , thought you and others may appreciate correct information

[Al Krow]

9 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

But thats precisely the point dear Al.

What you said was mis-informed and plain wrong, and at that point we didn’t know they were after VK’s, and with the drive only just past noon and the blend more towards clean, gain not maxed and vol on about 1, it’s hardly extreme settings.

Daisy chaining 2 of those cabs brings it manageable in its normal mode, however the conscession I will make is that if you flip the switch to 2ohms like you can on this amp, the sound you get with that Cab combination will be way punchier and better.

As a stickler for details Al , thought you and others may appreciate correct information

I'm afraid I stand by my conclusions and unfortunately disagree with yours.  

Given a choice I would opt for two VK 112 MNTs every time over 2 BF 110s, but given the price differential, it would be unfair to expect the BF 110s to compete.

I suggest we agree to disagree on this one.

[Cuzzie]

4 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Well, there is no debate here really. Obviously you need to match apples with apples. But take any BF 112 and put it against a single BF 110 and you'll get a bigger sound. 

Besides my point was actually a different one - about power handling and the ability of two BF 110s to handle the full 900W output of a DG M900. They are not designed to as has been confirmed. Any two BF 112s however will. 

Al, lets put this to bed.

You stated 2 BF One 10s would not handle the M900 in normal output full mode.

This factually incorrect, you can disagree all you like, but you are wrong based on information from manufacturers and physics, conflating and moving the argument around is just smoke and mirrors

Preference of Cabs is another issue which is neither agree nor disagree, it’s just choice, and I never made that point about either cabs ability, so all your agreements or disagreements are purely with yourself

[Al Krow]

Dear @Cuzzie time to get off your high horse, my friend.

Let me start by asking where exactly did I use the term "normal" in any of my posts above and what do you mean by "normal"? 

But let's briefly discuss this as it's certainly relevant. Is it "normal" to use the the DG M900 with the dirt engaged? Well err, yes folk (including me) do it all the time. Even if the amp is being run clean would folk use dirt or synth or filter pedals with the amp which produce volume / output spikes? Again yes, all the time. 

What I actually said is that I would not want to use 2 BF 110s with the DG M900 with its "full" 900W unleashed, which absolutely includes using the B3K / VMT microtubes engine. 

I stick by that (and actually that's also the conclusion of the @fretmeister who has that very set up).

If you're prepared to buy two BF 110s and run a DG M900 flat out through it with the dirt regularly engaged, well that's entirely up to you. I certainly wouldn't and nor would I recommend the OP doing it.

If folk are not looking to use the DG M900 at full capacity I'm sure two BF 110s will be absolutely lovely as fretmeister is finding.

That's all  

 

Edited October 28, 2018 by Al Krow

[Cuzzie]

@Al Krow crikey this is painful.

 Normal as in one has not switched the min load switch at the back of the amp which you use when using a 2 ohm load, or to lower the output if your 4ohm can cannot handle more than 500w, which also gives you 350w with an 8ohm Cab.

That is all that I am saying.

This means it is safe to use the M900 with BF One 10’s using various iterations of 1 or 2 daisy chained.

I make no reference to distortion or pedals (not everyone has a pedal collection facility) or which cab manufacturer or size speaker cone sounds better.

Your words (not mine) quoted with no alteration were 2 BF One 10’s cannot handle the full power of the DG M900. It’s wrong, it can clean, and if you flick the switch it can dirty, so if you meant by ‘unleashing’ it using everything maxed, they can do that too, but by the manoeuvre described above.

So what you said was, it can’t, wrong. But if you meant you don’t want to that’s fine, but that’s not what you said.

Thats all

[Al Krow]

Agreed it's painful  Let me have one final go at explaining what should really be quite a simple point, but for some reason you seem to be deciding I'm saying something different. Here goes:

If I want to get the "full 900W" including using the microtubes preamp out of a DG M900 it's going to need to face a 4ohm load, as it is only rated 900W at 4ohms (or 2 ohms) but not 8 ohms. Agreed?

2 BF 110s (8 ohms) in parallel can provide this 4 ohm load.

But having created a 4ohm load fairly easily, I would not want to be regularly putting 450W+ including dirt through each BF 110 cab, would you? Mr Claber doesn't recommend it either. That works for me  

The key thing you're trying to do to enable the 110s to handle 900W with dirt, is "flicking a switch"; but if you do that the amp will no longer be putting out 900W! 

Also, I appreciate this point would only be something that would impact regularly gigging bass players, but needing to go round the back of your amp to flick a switch each time you wanted to engage dirt to protect your cabs (and then flick the switch the other way when you're not using dirt) mid-song is a complete non-starter. Much better to have cabs that can handle the full output in all situations. The VK 112s the OP is planning to get will do that without breaking into a sweat.

Trust we are finally agreed?

Edited October 29, 2018 by Al Krow

[Cuzzie]

Yes Dear........