Do I need a shim?

[Jono Bolton]

I finally got round to adjusting the action on my P Bass on Friday, and have managed to get the action  reasonably low (2-3mm at the 12th fret), however the G string could stand to be a little lower still but the saddle is currently sitting on the bridge plate. The neck is straight with a little relief. Is a shim the only way to get the action lower than it is at the moment?

[Manton Customs]

It’s not the only fix, but it’s the easiest. Other fixes would be milling an angle in the pocket or neck heel, recessing the bridge. Or a different (lower) bridge/saddles. 

So a shim is probably your best bet. Veneer works well for this. Ideally the saddles shouldn’t bottom out until the string are resting on the fret tops (just so you know what to aim for)

[Twincam]

I will add to the above good advice that a shim should be as thin as possible you don't need to make the neck angle huge, just enough to get the action you need. Experiment with folded paper you be surprised how thin a shim often needs to be. Then if you wish you can make the shim out of a different material to the size required. 

[mybass]

Ah, the old days of putting a flat lollipop stick under the neck end to get the angle!

[NancyJohnson]

I've had to shim a couple of necks in the past.  It is amazing how a tiny sliver of veneer or sandpaper can have such an effect on overall playability.

[Jono Bolton]

Thanks. I've shimmed before but I've never really fully understood when a shim is necessary; I think in my youth I did it because I'd heard of other people doing it. It's far from being unplayable at the moment but I'll maybe give it a go over the weekend.

[Jono Bolton]

15 hours ago, Twincam said:

I will add to the above good advice that a shim should be as thin as possible you don't need to make the neck angle huge, just enough to get the action you need. Experiment with folded paper you be surprised how thin a shim often needs to be. Then if you wish you can make the shim out of a different material to the size required. 

 

13 hours ago, NancyJohnson said:

I've had to shim a couple of necks in the past.  It is amazing how a tiny sliver of veneer or sandpaper can have such an effect on overall playability.

I've used stiff business cards in the past but I've got one in a drawer at work that's made of quite thin, recycled brown card, so that's going to be my primary candidate.

[KiOgon]

Have you checked it hasn't got a shim already? Maybe in the wrong place or just simply needs removing altogether.

[Jono Bolton]

32 minutes ago, KiOgon said:

Have you checked it hasn't got a shim already? Maybe in the wrong place or just simply needs removing altogether.

Yep, nothing in the pocket at the moment.

[Bigguy2017]

The StewMac shims are excellent, albeit pricey as delivered from the US.

https://www.stewmac.com/Materials_and_Supplies/Bodies_and_Necks_and_Wood/Electric_Bass_Bodies_and_Necks_and_Wood/Bass_Necks/StewMac_Neck_Shims_for_Bass.html

The 0.25 degree shim was perfect for my Stingray whose original factory shim had embossed itself flush into the neck pocket over 30 plus years...

 

[discreet]

I use a 1cm strip off a playing card cut to heel shape - doesn't seem to compress like other card or paper, works very well. If I want to raise the whole neck I'll use a whole card in there - usually a Joker, or the Ace of Spades - for mojo and coolness. Yes, I know. 

Edited October 30, 2018 by discreet

[NancyJohnson]

22 minutes ago, Bigguy2017 said:

The StewMac shims are excellent, albeit pricey as delivered from the US.

https://www.stewmac.com/Materials_and_Supplies/Bodies_and_Necks_and_Wood/Electric_Bass_Bodies_and_Necks_and_Wood/Bass_Necks/StewMac_Neck_Shims_for_Bass.html

The 0.25 degree shim was perfect for my Stingray whose original factory shim had embossed itself flush into the neck pocket over 30 plus years...

 

Irrespective of the bass and it's provenance, why anyone would pay $10 for something that you can make for free out of a playing card or a bit of sandpaper is beyond me.  I have some bottles of snake oil in my garage if you need to buy any.

[Jono Bolton]

1 hour ago, NancyJohnson said:

Irrespective of the bass and it's provenance, why anyone would pay $10 for something that you can make for free out of a playing card or a bit of sandpaper is beyond me.  I have some bottles of snake oil in my garage if you need to buy any.

And that's $10 for one; I assumed it would be for a pack! Each to their own, but I'll stick to bits of card, thanks.

[Muppet]

I cut shims out of the very thin plastic used in document wallets and ring binder covers as it tends not to compress over time.

[Bridgehouse]

3 hours ago, NancyJohnson said:

Irrespective of the bass and it's provenance, why anyone would pay $10 for something that you can make for free out of a playing card or a bit of sandpaper is beyond me.  I have some bottles of snake oil in my garage if you need to buy any.

I’ve got a set - it would be hard to do this with a card as the shims are wedge shaped - the pack comes with different angles.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Bridgehouse

[discreet]

17 minutes ago, Bridgehouse said:

I’ve got a set - it would be hard to do this with a card as the shims are wedge shaped - the pack comes with different angles.

You really don't need a wedge. A thin strip of material will do the job across the neck pocket at the heel end. There is of course a huge thread on TalkBass about the merits or otherwise of leaving a (God forbid) GAP under the pocket end of the neck, but in my experience it really makes no difference to tone or sustain. Assuming you had any tone or sustain in the first place. Need a more extreme angle? Stick another bit of playing card in there. It works.

There are those who claim to be able to tell if a neck is shimmed, what it's shimmed with and if there's a (gasp) GAP under the heel end, but I put those people in a box along with those new-age types who claim to be able to tell the difference between different types (and prices) of mains cables by the SOUND, can tell how much an effects pedal battery is DRAINED (sounds different!) or can tell how OLD pickups are by the perceived level of MAGNESTISM they have - or don't have. It's all a great big steaming pile of DUNG. 

[Bridgehouse]

7 minutes ago, discreet said:

You really don't need a wedge. A thin strip of material will do the job across the neck pocket at the heel end. There is of course a huge thread on TalkBass about the merits or otherwise of leaving a (God forbid) GAP under the pocket end of the neck, but in my experience it really makes no difference to tone or sustain. Assuming you had any tone or sustain in the first place. Need a more extreme angle? Stick another bit of playing card in there. It works.

There are those who claim to be able to tell if a neck is shimmed, what it's shimmed with and if there's a (gasp) GAP under the heel end, but I put those people in a box along with those new-age types who claim to be able to tell the difference between different types (and prices) of mains cables by the SOUND, can tell how much an effects pedal battery is DRAINED (sounds different!) or can tell how OLD pickups are by the perceived level of MAGNESTISM they have - or don't have. It's all a great big steaming pile of DUNG. 

I only got them cos they look neat. 

[discreet]

Just now, Bridgehouse said:

I only got them cos they look neat. 

Well that was a complete waste of invective.

[Bridgehouse]

1 minute ago, discreet said:

Well that was a complete waste of invective.

Cheered me up tho

[discreet]

2 minutes ago, Bridgehouse said:

 Cheered me up tho

That's the main thing. As long as you're not thinking about your broken bass - D'OH! 

[Bridgehouse]

1 minute ago, discreet said:

That's the main thing. As long as you're not thinking about your broken bass - D'OH! 

Yeah. I’m distracting myself looking at 5 stringers

[NancyJohnson]

2 hours ago, Bridgehouse said:

I’ve got a set - it would be hard to do this with a card as the shims are wedge shaped - the pack comes with different angles.

I would guarantee to you that if I removed the shims you probably paid good money for and replaced them with an old business card or something cut out of a cornflake box, you would be none the wiser.  Wedges?  Pffft.  If you believe that filling a tiny triangular void under the neck heel is somehow going to affect playability or tone or whatever drove you to buy a set, then you've been duped.

[Bridgehouse]

6 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

I would guarantee to you that if I removed the shims you probably paid good money for and replaced them with an old business card or something cut out of a cornflake box, you would be none the wiser.  Wedges?  Pffft.  If you believe that filling a tiny triangular void under the neck heel is somehow going to affect playability or tone or whatever drove you to buy a set, then you've been duped.

Like I said, they look neat. End of.

[Bridgehouse]

18 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

I would guarantee to you that if I removed the shims you probably paid good money for and replaced them with an old business card or something cut out of a cornflake box, you would be none the wiser.  Wedges?  Pffft.  If you believe that filling a tiny triangular void under the neck heel is somehow going to affect playability or tone or whatever drove you to buy a set, then you've been duped.

Oh, and thanks for the sneering and patronising comment. Naturally, you know me so well that you’ll know exactly when I’ll be none the wiser. 

As it happens they were given to be by a well respected repairer for free. So yeah - duped. 

I miss the good old days when people could be civil and polite and pay a little respect to each other.

[FinnDave]

Should you use a red or a black suite playing card to shim a bass with a through neck? Enquiring on a behalf of an acquaintance.