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Do I need a shim?


Jono Bolton

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Yes, yes of course you're right...

Well it went horribly. The cheap bass already has a bit of Korean cardboard factory-fitted at the "wedge end" of the neck pocket.

Anyway, I found that the screws are threaded through the body as well as into the neck, so I worked out that If I introduced a further wedge or spacer, the screw threads probably wouldn't find the same threads that they've cut in the neck - which would probably strip the wood out, requiring fatter screws at least.

So, next time I'm going to open out the holes in the body slightly, so the screws can spin, and hopefully I can get them to go back in the right position in the neck.

Then I changed the strings, but I think I left the E string a couple of coils too long, perhaps introducing too much break angle for the plastic nut - because shortly after, a small piece of it dropped off. So I now need a new nut (perhaps I'll get a brass one).

I'm enjoying it, but this guitar fettling is not as easy as it seems...

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9 hours ago, Ricky 4000 said:

Yes, yes of course you're right...

Well it went horribly. The cheap bass already has a bit of Korean cardboard factory-fitted at the "wedge end" of the neck pocket.

Anyway, I found that the screws are threaded through the body as well as into the neck, so I worked out that If I introduced a further wedge or spacer, the screw threads probably wouldn't find the same threads that they've cut in the neck - which would probably strip the wood out, requiring fatter screws at least.

So, next time I'm going to open out the holes in the body slightly, so the screws can spin, and hopefully I can get them to go back in the right position in the neck.

Then I changed the strings, but I think I left the E string a couple of coils too long, perhaps introducing too much break angle for the plastic nut - because shortly after, a small piece of it dropped off. So I now need a new nut (perhaps I'll get a brass one).

I'm enjoying it, but this guitar fettling is not as easy as it seems...

 I'm wondering about the 'factory fitted cardboard'? Can't see any factory made instrument having that in place from new. Sounds like someones had a shot at a shim already. I'm thinking that you put a full length 'shim' of cardboard up to 2 to 3mm thickness in the whole neck length slot BEFORE trying anything else, see what thickness works to get those saddles higher and more effective before buying some veneer to make a shim.

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7 hours ago, mybass said:

 I'm wondering about the 'factory fitted cardboard'? Can't see any factory made instrument having that in place from new. Sounds like someones had a shot at a shim already. I'm thinking that you put a full length 'shim' of cardboard up to 2 to 3mm thickness in the whole neck length slot BEFORE trying anything else, see what thickness works to get those saddles higher and more effective before buying some veneer to make a shim.

There's occasionally a genuine Fender 60s cardboard shim which makes its appearance on ebay...

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On 08/12/2018 at 05:16, Ricky 4000 said:

.

 

Anyway, I found that the screws are threaded through the body as well as into the neck, so I worked out that If I introduced a further wedge or spacer, the screw threads probably wouldn't find the same threads that they've cut in the neck - which would probably strip the wood out, requiring fatter screws at least.

So, next time I'm going to open out the holes in the body slightly, so the screws can spin, and hopefully I can get them to go back in the right position in the neck.

 

Alternatively - pump some sort of 'No More Nails' type filler into the space to fill it completely.

Leave it for , say, two weeks  - don't follow the 24 / 48 hour or whatever hour guidance on the pack.

Really need to let all the water / solvent get out of it - should be hard as the wood by then.

Then cut away any excess with a craft knife.

It'll then take screws and let them cut new threads (suggest to drill pilot hole before screwing).

Edited by rmorris
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IMO you are over-thinking this. Each additional thickness of card will change the neck angle by approximately one quarter of a degree. That is not going to be enough to worry about the screws needing to cut new threads in the wood. I would add a second piece of card underneath the existing one but twice as "wide" - so it almost reaches the first set of neck sure holes and then re-assemble it.

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  • 2 months later...

Revisiting this thread:

Thanks to the kind advice above, I experimented with cardboard, and concluded that it didn't need the neck angle changed with a wedge, but it did need a shim of around 3mm thick to get a reasonably low action with the saddle screws set mostly flush with the tops of the saddles, giving the strings a decent break angle.

I made this full pocket sized shim out of some industrial strength 3ply vinyl flooring, and it works very well. I wondered whether is would dull the instrument's tone by insulating the neck from the body, but it sounds fine (although I probably should replace the shim with one made from a piece of 3mm wood veneer at some point).

WP_20181214_00_43_11_Pro.thumb.jpg.d8dc7a76f2903136b3369723fd5d5f59.jpgI did carefully ream out the threads in the 4 holes through the body. They are still a snug fit for the screws, but now they allow me to feel the screws threading back into the neck on reassembly.

I put a set of flatwound strings on the other evening, and for a budget bass, I'm very pleased with it. 👍

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3 hours ago, Ricky 4000 said:

I wondered whether is would dull the instrument's tone by insulating the neck from the body,

Hi Ricky, 3mm is quite a thick shim , and being vinyl I think it would dull the tone, because the woods are not connected, but if you like the tone and it gives you the action you are happy with then leave it, if not change the shim for a strip of , non backed veneer . Veneers come in various thickness from about 1mm to 3mm so you may need a few to get your required thickness. Nice job btw 👍

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On 13/04/2019 at 07:48, Reggaebass said:

Hi Ricky, 3mm is quite a thick shim , and being vinyl I think it would dull the tone, because the woods are not connected, but if you like the tone and it gives you the action you are happy with then leave it, if not change the shim for a strip of , non backed veneer . Veneers come in various thickness from about 1mm to 3mm so you may need a few to get your required thickness. Nice job btw 👍

Thanks RB. 👍 It does look better than most of my "Heath Robinson" projects! 😃

You're right though, doesn't sound bad, but it has damped the sound.

Now I've bedded in the new strings, I can tell acoustically that the E string particularly has lost sustain.

Thought for a moment I'd invented the "dub shim", but nah... I'll have to make one outta wood - or ally!? 😎

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6 minutes ago, Ricky 4000 said:

Thanks RB. 👍 It does look better than most of my "Heath Robinson" projects! 😃

You're right though, doesn't sound bad, but it has damped the sound.

Now I've bedded in the new strings, I can tell acoustically that the E string particularly has lost sustain.

Thought for a moment I'd invented the "dub shim", but nah... I'll have to make one outta wood - or ally!? 😎

The Dub shim sounds like a good name for a reggae band 😀. I’d stick to wood for a shim if I was you, eBay sell various offcuts for a few quid , keep us posted 👍

Edited by Reggaebass
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5 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

Ricky, don’t buy anything yet , I’ll see what’s in my joinery shop tomorrow 👍

Just had a measure up mate, I reckon the dub shim has squeezed down to around 2.5mm now it's fitted, so anything around 2.5mm - 3mm thick would be fine.

The thing is a little under 100mm x 63mm.

If you do have something suitable, that'd be great. 👍

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8 minutes ago, Ricky 4000 said:

Just had a measure up mate, I reckon the dub shim has squeezed down to around 2.5mm now it's fitted, so anything around 2.5mm - 3mm thick would be fine.

The thing is a little under 100mm x 63mm.

If you do have something suitable, that'd be great. 👍

I’ll see what’s there around that thickness , if not I’ll cut you some , there’s lots of hardwood offcuts there and I’ll  pop them in the post,   🙂

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I find this interesting as most of the shims I have seen/have fallen out of my basses when taking the necks off have been small things that go to one end of the pocket or the other, not completely covering the pocket like these.  The net result of that is the neck gets tilted, not raised, and the shim doesn't have to be so thick.  What is the idea behind the whole pocket shim?

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 Now you’re going to make it again anyway, I would definitely do a small shim at the back of the pocket about a third the thickness of what you have there. That way the shim will be invisible and can be much thinner, so any dampening it may cause would be lessened.

Edited by Manton Customs
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