Utter disaster. I give up.

[Woodinblack]

2 hours ago, Bridgehouse said:

It’s an incredible bass. And it’s beautiful to play (apart from the splinters now )

Jons view is this is a catastrophic truss rod failure - I tend to agree

Certainly looked nice. Certainly one of those 'if it had 5 strings and frets' sort of thing.

Never seen a catastrophic failure of a truss rod. Seen one jam once, but that was a pretty cheap thing. 

[Bridgehouse]

Just now, Woodinblack said:

Certainly looked nice. Certainly one of those 'if it had 5 strings and frets' sort of thing.

Never seen a catastrophic failure of a truss rod. Seen one jam once, but that was a pretty cheap thing. 

Neither had I. But I’ve now seen and heard one.

[discreet]

Just now, Bridgehouse said:

...it seems everything inanimate hates me at the moment

Switch off your electricity at the fuse box and carefully make your way to bed. Try to keep very still during the night. You'll be fine.

[Bridgehouse]

Just now, discreet said:

Switch off your electricity at the fuse box and carefully make your way to bed. Try to keep very still during the night. You'll be fine.

Er, I’m about to leave the house and drive to Gatwick for an early morning 14 hour flight to the Caribbean.

Urk.

[Woodinblack]

1 minute ago, Bridgehouse said:

Neither had I. But I’ve now seen and heard one.

Before stating that obviously Mr Shuker knows what he is talking about, both on instruments in general and this specifically but I don't understand it from those pictures.

From my very limited knowledge of these things I don't understand how it is a truss rod failure - maybe it is just the pictures (and they are not that clear) but it looks like the truss rod has just come out of the back of the neck.

If I am correct in my ideas of how these things work, when you tighten the truss rod to pull the headstock back, the truss rod bends in its little channel, its ends push down at the back on both ends of the neck, and its middle pushes up in the middle of the neck on the fretboard, bending the neck backwards. If you reduce the tension, the truss rod goes straight and the weight of the strings pulls the headstock up.

If the truss rod completely failed, it would just lose all tension and go straight, so it is no longer pushing on the top or bottom of the neck, or the middle on the front, so the strings would pull the neck, giving you a massive relief (like the other one in this thread).

But those photos look like the truss rod has punched through the back of the neck because the wood in the neck couldn't take the pressure, which would surely be a catastrophic failure of the truss rod channel, ie the neck, because the wood underneath the truss rod wasn't strong enough to take the pressure.

I am guessing this must be wrong, but can someone explain how a truss rod can gain more tension by failing? Or am I seeing the photos wrong? 

I suppose if the other arm of the truss rod failed, it would get a bit shorter and pull the two ends of the neck together, but I don't understand how that would do this.

Not trying to be argumentative or anything, just really puzzled at what happened (and a little concerned as I intend to make the neck for my next bass so want to make sure I understood it right!)

[discreet]

19 minutes ago, Bridgehouse said:

Er, I’m about to leave the house and drive to Gatwick for an early morning 14 hour flight to the Caribbean.

Holy crap! At least you're not flying the plane. Or are you?? 

[Bridgehouse]

@Woodinblack - it’s not a standard rod. It’s an ABM dual action - although I can’t see in, I suspect that one of the multiple bits of the rod has come off the main part under tension and forced its way out towards the back of the neck. There’s always at least one rod under tension with a dual action.

[Bridgehouse]

1 minute ago, discreet said:

Holy crap! At least you're not flying the plane. Or are you?? 

No. Thankfully not. 

[Bridgehouse]

Here’s a dual action rod:

They are under constant tension one way or another. I could imagine that if that weld failed or the metal block then that would be pretty catastrophic 

[Bridgehouse]

Just now, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

I thought a dual action truss rod was still single rod? You can have two truss rods, but it doesn't make it dual action though.

In a dual action rod there’s a straight bar and a rod underneath that’s under tension. 

[Bridgehouse]

Just now, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

This is why I don't tinker with stuff I know little about 😀👍

Normally neither do I 

I thought a quick tweak wouldn’t matter and would be quite fine.

Mind you, I tried that with Mrs B and got a slap for that too

[Woodinblack]

1 minute ago, Bridgehouse said:

In a dual action rod there’s a straight bar and a rod underneath that’s under tension. 

Yeh, so if the weld fails, or one of those rods fails, the only thing it can do is return to straight from bent. The dual action just means push and pull doesn't it (ie, bend up or bend down). Ultimately it works by one of the rods being shorter than the other, so if they separate, all the tension is moved, unless somehow the block at the end can pivot out.

[Bridgehouse]

Just now, Woodinblack said:

Yeh, so if the weld fails, or one of those rods fails, the only thing it can do is return to straight from bent. The dual action just means push and pull doesn't it (ie, bend up or bend down). Ultimately it works by one of the rods being shorter than the other, so if they separate, all the tension is moved, unless somehow the block at the end can pivot out.

It’s effectively loose in the channel (it’s theoretically removable) (Well, not right now!)

I actually think either the rod has snapped under tension and kicked out, or it’s bent under tension and kicked out. 

I don’t know though. Unless I have a strange alien growth in there, I’m certain *some* part of the truss rod has bent out and kicked out the bottom of the neck

[Bridgehouse]

Either way, once Jon has looked at it I’ll be able to report back a full diagnostic.

Unless I have done something monumentally stupid, in which case I will go strangely quiet.

[Woodinblack]

Certainly don't think there is anything you can do to a truss rod under normal circumstances that would make it do that!

So I looked it up, because it is interesting, both types of truss rod have a flat bit and a rotating round bit. The single action truss rod  when compressed bends the flat bit out and when relaxed the flat bit straightens. On the dual action, one way the flat bit bends out, and the other way the flat bit straightens and the round bit bends out.

Will be interested to hear what did go wrong.

 

[Bridgehouse]

Just now, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

Hopefully they will take some pictures during the dismantling process. Would be interested to see what's on the inside thats caused that.

I’ll certainly ask. He might even give me the knacked rod to hang on the wall as a trophy

[AndyTravis]

Well...feck me.

its an awful sound that - happened on a Warwick which shipped with an awful action from the factory to me once...

thats gutting - I’d try and assimilate that it’s much like a Ferrari, a beautiful piece of art and design with a particular function.

Unfortunately if it Goes ‘pop’ it’s most likely expensive and catastrophic.

sounds a bit Swiss Tony, but you know what I mean.

[Chris2112]

Jesus wept, what a mess. I hope you can get it fixed and move it on with little loss. I know what it's like to lose confidence with something and feel as though you're just waiting for the next thing to go wrong and blow your wallet to bits. 

[burno70]

Man, that would break my heart if it happened to my Shuker. It's a stunning bass and I'm sure Jon will have it fixed up good as new.

[BassTool]

Oh dear that's grim 😢

Hope you get sorted, and hopefully not too expensive  

 

 

[Beedster]

On 30/10/2018 at 07:12, Al Krow said:

Now that's worth repairing

[Rich]

100% convinced that Jon will be as upset and horrified as you, that such an awful thing has befallen one of his artworks. I'm sure he'll see you right.

[Bridgehouse]

Quick update - it’s going to Jon on Monday. 

Fingers crossed. I will either love it to bits again or it will be in the classifieds for £50

[bassfan]

27 minutes ago, Bridgehouse said:

Quick update - it’s going to Jon on Monday. 

Fingers crossed. I will either love it to bits again or it will be in the classifieds for £50

I’ll give you £51 now? 😂😂

Keep us posted.... 🤞🏻

[Bridgehouse]

3 minutes ago, bassfan said:

I’ll give you £51 now? 😂😂

Keep us posted.... 🤞🏻

Lol - that’s a generous offer but I think I’ll decline 

Of course updates will come as I get them