Huge Hands Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Interesting that my 16 year old 2L petrol Honda C-RV which loves to drink the stuff is exempt from this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicko Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 10 minutes ago, Monkey Steve said: Ha! they're done throughout the day - the typical shift starts way before you are part of the daily commute, and continues until the rounds are finished - usually mid afternoon. You only notice it when you get stuck behind one in the morning, but that's just the luck of the draw - your commute must go across where their round is at that time in the morning. But you'll rarely be stuck behind a bin lorry coming home because the rounds are finished by then. Yeah, thats my impression. Everywhere I've ever lived they have been out at between 6 and 9 in the morning which is peak commuting time. I've never seen a domestic waste collection lorry on the road after aroumnd midday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 46 minutes ago, Huge Hands said: my 16 year old 2L petrol Honda C-RV which loves to drink the stuff is exempt from this! It's to do with what's in the emissions... Diesels produce more NOx and particulates which are more associated with health problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pineweasel Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Huge Hands said: Interesting that my 16 year old 2L petrol Honda C-RV which loves to drink the stuff is exempt from this! Be aware that the database isn't completely up to date. My 2002 BMW motorcycle was exempt when I checked a few months ago, but wasn't when I looked again recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 3 hours ago, NancyJohnson said: London undoubtedly could be a cleaner place and let's face it, it is cleaner now compared to how it was when my mum was a girl; she described it to me once as, 'every house having a coal fire and every chimney belching smoke coming out of it, smogs so thick in Shepherds Bush that you could barely see a few feet in front of you. it made breathing difficult. In wintertime sooty residue on everything.' True, people used to die in large numbers due to the pollution, pretty well like it is in china now. I don't remember london, we didn't go there, but I remember the brick in Bath was black when I was young, it is now light yellow. 3 hours ago, NancyJohnson said: Thing is though, we don't live under a dome, we live on a sphere with weather systems circulating whatever is in the atmosphere. Their pollution and toxicity becomes our pollution and toxicity, and to a way lesser extent vice-versa. If we cut our pollutants today to zero and India/China just carried on regardless, things wouldn't change a jot. No, maybe not, but they would change a bit, and they would change locally for us quite a bit. And if you said yourself, if we refuse to buy anything that was made under those conditions, maybe it would have an effect. 3 hours ago, NancyJohnson said: Concerning ethics, how do you approach that then? Do you take the viewpoint that it's OK to for undeveloped(?) countries to continue throwing sh*t into the atmosphere but to cease, or restrain, them from doing so is ethically wrong? no, they shouldn't be throwing stinky poo in the air and we should be doing whatever we can to stop them. China / India, hardly that underdeveloped, they both have a space program and nuclear weapons. They know how not to pollute. Unfortunately with brexit and all, our chance of influencing anyone is reducing, but we can certainly choose what and who we deal with. Ultimately, I don't think we are disagreeing on anything really. 3 hours ago, paul_c2 said: Volkswagen dieselgate is interesting - since its now been proven they "cheated" the standard, I wonder if it renders those cars which fraudulently obtained their pass ineligible to avoid paying the higher rate of congestion charge etc. I hate that - Volkswagen didn't 'cheat' the standard. The test was there they made something that passed it, ie, they didn't falsify and documents or anything, they really did pass that test that they had to comply with. That the test was stupidly flawed and easy to pass without sticking to the 'spirit' or idea of what the test was about is another matter, but that is human nature, amplified 100 times for a commercial business. You can go out tomorrow with a volkswagon bought at any normal dealer from that era and pass that test. The people who should have been dragged over coals (or maybe, warmed electric bricks these days), were the people that set up such an easily cheatable test that was not related to real world use. Its not hard to do a non cheatable test, the people who found out that they were not doing what they should set one up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_c2 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 8 minutes ago, Woodinblack said: I hate that - Volkswagen didn't 'cheat' the standard. The test was there they made something that passed it, ie, they didn't falsify and documents or anything, they really did pass that test that they had to comply with. That the test was stupidly flawed and easy to pass without sticking to the 'spirit' or idea of what the test was about is another matter, but that is human nature, amplified 100 times for a commercial business. You can go out tomorrow with a volkswagon bought at any normal dealer from that era and pass that test. The people who should have been dragged over coals (or maybe, warmed electric bricks these days), were the people that set up such an easily cheatable test that was not related to real world use. Its not hard to do a non cheatable test, the people who found out that they were not doing what they should set one up. Having looked at the details, the way they cheated was to have the computer sense a certain set of conditions which corresponded with the test cycle, and configure the engine to produce low emissions for that short time - at other times it emitted far higher emissions. Since that is disallowed in the regulations, its definitely a cheat. I think there's enough factual evidence out there to prove this alone. To cement the situation, VW themselves admitted to it (eventually) and the USA regulator, amongst many others, took action against them. Those two things on their own are not insignificant events in themselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 26 minutes ago, paul_c2 said: Having looked at the details, the way they cheated was to have the computer sense a certain set of conditions which corresponded with the test cycle, and configure the engine to produce low emissions for that short time - at other times it emitted far higher emissions. Since that is disallowed in the regulations, its definitely a cheat. Was that really disallowed? I would say that means that the test cycle was a non realistic test, if it was something that a car detects as abnormal, and unrelated to what happens on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_c2 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_c2 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Volkswagen pleaded guilty to the criminal charges relating to this, and have a comprehensive programme in place to recall and/or modify the affected cars so they comply with the regulations. Additionally, in some markets, they have offered direct compensation to owners and a trade-in guarantee. In the UK, because recalls are only required for safety-related issues, there is no compulsory recall but VW have committed to modifying cars at no cost, if the owners want it done. (There have also been independent studies and modified cars have reduced performance and fuel economy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 3 hours ago, Nicko said: Yeah, thats my impression. Everywhere I've ever lived they have been out at between 6 and 9 in the morning which is peak commuting time. I've never seen a domestic waste collection lorry on the road after aroumnd midday. Yep, wouldn’t do to have this - and the grass-cutters in summer - on the roads between 10am & 4pm, that would just be common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 2 hours ago, paul_c2 said: there is no compulsory recall but VW have committed to modifying cars at no cost, if the owners want it done. (There have also been independent studies and modified cars have reduced performance and fuel economy). Yeh, I can see that being popular Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 13 hours ago, paul_c2 said: Volkswagen pleaded guilty to the criminal charges relating to this, and have a comprehensive programme in place to recall and/or modify the affected cars so they comply with the regulations. Additionally, in some markets, they have offered direct compensation to owners and a trade-in guarantee. In the UK, because recalls are only required for safety-related issues, there is no compulsory recall but VW have committed to modifying cars at no cost, if the owners want it done. (There have also been independent studies and modified cars have reduced performance and fuel economy). Also Skoda. My Yeti had to have some work done. And, yes, performance and fuel economy went down the tubes afterwards. Did it teach me a lesson? Nope - I've now got a VW T-Roc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Steve Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 14 hours ago, Lozz196 said: Yep, wouldn’t do to have this - and the grass-cutters in summer - on the roads between 10am & 4pm, that would just be common sense. take it up with your local council. Thing is, the collections wouldn't be completed if the lorries are only on the roads between those times without employing a lot of extra crew and vehicles, so your council tax would go up to pay for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 18 hours ago, Monkey Steve said: Ha! they're done throughout the day - the typical shift starts way before you are part of the daily commute, and continues until the rounds are finished - usually mid afternoon. You only notice it when you get stuck behind one in the morning, but that's just the luck of the draw - your commute must go across where their round is at that time in the morning. But you'll rarely be stuck behind a bin lorry coming home because the rounds are finished by then. It never bothers me, they are doing a valuable job that would really cause a problem it was stopped. They are never in the way for long and they are usually courteous about getting out of the way as soon as they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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