DI box

[Triumphman]

Ok, might be a very basic question.

did a gig once and normally the Soundman plugs straight into the Di out on my bass amp.

on this occasion however, I’m sure I plugged my bass into his Di box and then a lead went to my amp from it and a lead went off to his pa from it.

is that a thing?

What type of Di box is that? 

 

[SteveK]

Both ways entirely ok. More usual though that the FOH engineer use his own DI.That way, if your amp goes down you'll still be heard out front. 

[Lozz196]

Yep, only downside is that this way the DI signal is your bass only, no eq/gain etc from amp. So if your specific sound is an integral part of the band, this way the audience don`t hear it.

[peteb]

1 hour ago, Lozz196 said:

Yep, only downside is that this way the DI signal is your bass only, no eq/gain etc from amp. So if your specific sound is an integral part of the band, this way the audience don`t hear it.

Which is another reason why many FOH engineers prefer using a DI box... 

[Triumphman]

Is a specific type of Di box required? Or does a normal Passive one work? 

[Sibob]

Any kind is fine. Spend more money, get more features and/or quality parts (ie “better tone”).

My main DI box is a passive £40 Orchid DI, but am thinking about a Noble too.

Si

[Lozz196]

2 hours ago, peteb said:

Which is another reason why many FOH engineers prefer using a DI box... 

Yeah it seems like a sort of sport to them, hear a band and think now that Lemmy, he just needs far less top end and gain, why a James Jamerson sound would fit in that Motorhead of his far better.

[Bolo]

Which is why all my preamping is done on my pedalboard. The amp is for making loud. 

[peteb]

1 hour ago, Lozz196 said:

Yeah it seems like a sort of sport to them, hear a band and think now that Lemmy, he just needs far less top end and gain, why a James Jamerson sound would fit in that Motorhead of his far better.

Some of them do seem to have a 'one size fits all' approach to any bass player in any band - allows them more time to appease the guitar player and work on the biggest possible bass drum sound known to mankind...! 

Edited November 12, 2018 by peteb

[casapete]

You could always try using a Sansamp Bass Driver - preamp / amp modeler pedal with lots of tones and also a good DI output for the FOH sound too. Honourable mention too for the inevitable Behringer BD121 ( based on the Sanamp) which is well worth a try for only around £25 or less. With either of these you can choose to send whatever tone you dial in to the engineer out front, and either the same thing or just a straight through signal to your onstage amp. 

[paulbuzz]

I think the argument that "doing it this way it'll keep working even if the bass amp packs in" is a spurious one used by soundmen as an excuse to justify the way they wanted to do it anyway. There are loads of things on the stage that could potentially stop working and thereby screw up the show: the guitar amp, the keyboards, the drumkit (or drummer) might fall over, a mic lead might come unplugged - the list is endless - why worry about the bass amp in particular?

[Len_derby]

8 hours ago, peteb said:

Some of them do seem to have a 'one size fits all' approach to any bass player in any band - allows them more time to appease the guitar player and work on the biggest possible bass drum sound known to mankind...! 

Ah, so you've played the Hairy Dog in Derby!

But, to be fair, it's sadly the case in lots of venues. I put it down mainly to 'fashion'

[uk_lefty]

8 hours ago, paulbuzz said:

I think the argument that "doing it this way it'll keep working even if the bass amp packs in" is a spurious one used by soundmen as an excuse to justify the way they wanted to do it anyway. There are loads of things on the stage that could potentially stop working and thereby screw up the show: the guitar amp, the keyboards, the drumkit (or drummer) might fall over, a mic lead might come unplugged - the list is endless - why worry about the bass amp in particular?

Never quite got it myself either. A woolly mush out front for everyone!

And in my band the guitar amp/ pedal/ lead... We never know which, packs up every single time guaranteed. We keep telling him to get the lot serviced but it's falling on lead-guitarist ears.

Edited November 13, 2018 by uk_lefty

[drTStingray]

12 hours ago, peteb said:

Which is another reason why many FOH engineers prefer using a DI box... 

Unfortunately such people are very compromised sound men IMHO - the presumption that no bass players use pedals or require certain EQ or even amp characteristics in their sound is staggering - and of course the majority do. 

Its a bit like taking a feed from a synthesiser before the sound is synthesised if you see what I mean - so no pitch bending, different sounds just the basic keyboard. Or the same with a guitar - no pedals, no drive. Plainly stupid and not doing the job (of amplifying the band sound) properly. 

And it apparently happens to even the most famous of people - Guy Pratt mentioned this issue in a recent article - Glastonbury IIRC. 

Most larger events I've played at using a house PA have taken the feed from the amp DI - and I always select post EQ to give FOH the sound I'm using - however on one or two occasions where the back line was provided and it was a valve amp, a DI box was used - on at least one occasion because the amp didn't have a DI out (another good reason for not using 'vintage' equipment for me!!)

Edited November 13, 2018 by drTStingray

[Skol303]

19 hours ago, Sibob said:

Any kind is fine. Spend more money, get more features and/or quality parts (ie “better tone”).

^ Ditto this.

I use a Radial JDI, which is quite expensive for a passive box, but it’s a quality product and I’ll never have to buy another one. Even if I run over it with my car; it is literally built like a tank.

You'll find lots of recommendations to use passive boxes with active bases and vice-versa, which makes good sense but isn't essential. In fact, using a passive box with a passive bass can subtly flavour the tone in a way that some people describe as sounding ‘vintage’ (i.e. some high end roll-off and roundedness).

If you want a safe bet, the Radial ProDI Passive is a stalwart of the industry and can be found just about everywhere.

PS: I have no affiliation with Radial, I just like their gear 🙂

[Chris2112]

It sounds like a good advert for an active bass. You can start to cut your bass and boost your mids when he hits the 'generic bass sound' preset on his console.

[peteb]

3 hours ago, Chris2112 said:

It sounds like a good advert for an active bass. You can start to cut your bass and boost your mids when he hits the 'generic bass sound' preset on his console.

For most FOH engineers the 'generic bass sound' they will tend to use will be flat with possibley a bump in the upper mids.

[paul_c2]

On 12/11/2018 at 23:36, paulbuzz said:

I think the argument that "doing it this way it'll keep working even if the bass amp packs in" is a spurious one used by soundmen as an excuse to justify the way they wanted to do it anyway. There are loads of things on the stage that could potentially stop working and thereby screw up the show: the guitar amp, the keyboards, the drumkit (or drummer) might fall over, a mic lead might come unplugged - the list is endless - why worry about the bass amp in particular?

Having had 5 bass amps blow up, I think there's a lot of validity in the above. 

If a guitari amp/whatever, singer mic or keyboard packed in mid-song, personally I'd carry on. Drummer would still have something to hit too, normally.

[casapete]

On ‎12‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 23:36, paulbuzz said:

I think the argument that "doing it this way it'll keep working even if the bass amp packs in" is a spurious one used by soundmen as an excuse to justify the way they wanted to do it anyway. There are loads of things on the stage that could potentially stop working and thereby screw up the show: the guitar amp, the keyboards, the drumkit (or drummer) might fall over, a mic lead might come unplugged - the list is endless - why worry about the bass amp in particular?

Whilst I agree with you, I guess the engineer views it as just one less thing to worry about maybe?

[paulbuzz]

On 14/11/2018 at 11:19, paul_c2 said:

Having had 5 bass amps blow up, I think there's a lot of validity in the above. 

If a guitari amp/whatever, singer mic or keyboard packed in mid-song, personally I'd carry on. Drummer would still have something to hit too, normally.

Sounds like you need to head over to the 'Amps for sale' section to score a better amp! 😉
Alternatively, what on earth are you doing to them??!! 😮

The only time I've ever had an amp pack up mid-gig is when one of the new breed of supa-lite class D amps vibrated itself off the the top of the cab and crashed to the floor, snapping the input socket.
When my old-skool Trace preamp did the same thing, it just kept on working (though admittedly it dented the floor pretty badly!)

[paulbuzz]

Since I have posted above criticising the common soundman's habit of "DI box first thing after the bass", here's my defence of the practice, just for balance:

Modern amps/pedals etc tend to have very powerful EQ and effects which can easily produce a deeply unmusical or even unusable tone unless used judiciously and appropriately. There are plenty of bass players (as well as guitarists etc!) who have very little idea of what constitutes a good or appropriate tone in the context of the whole band. (People on this forum are probably an unrepresentative sample as simply by being here, we're self-selecting as the ones who care enough about such matters to want to discuss them with each other and hopefully get better informed!)

Additionally, the sound coming out of the (most likely very coloured) bass cab may be completely unlike the DI signal from the amp/pedals which we are proposing to feed into the soundman's (hopefully quite flat & full range) PA system.

So, for the busy soundman, the "DI box straight after the bass" strategy is an insurance policy against being fed an unusable sound from further down the bass-players signal chain; there's only so much that gormless bassplayers can do to screw it up with the controls on the bass itself!

This is still really annoying though if, as a bassplayer, you have spent time and effort making sure that your DI signal does actually have a carefully considered and sensibly-sculpted tone!

Edited November 16, 2018 by paulbuzz