Am i a Musician?

[leftybassman392]

On 15/11/2018 at 16:44, fretmeister said:

non-readers are only Demi-gods. so Ner ner ner)

Does it count if I can go da-doo doo doo da-daa daa daa?

[dmccombe7]

14 minutes ago, leftybassman392 said:

Does it count if I can go da-doo doo doo da-daa daa daa?

You'll still be a musician but a jibbering idiot along with it.

[FinnDave]

If people ask me what I do, I say I am a musician, simply because I don't do anything else, nor do I want to. If people ask me if I earn my living from music, I tell 'em to mind their own feckin business! 

[4000]

5 hours ago, dmccombe7 said:

Not sure we are talking about the same meaning on "level of commitment" and that's maybe down to my poor grammar.

Your main commitment is putting a roof over your head with a full time job and i believe that is more important especially if you have a family

Had you been able to commit to being a full time bass player then you would in fact become a Pro player (IMO). At the moment you are committed to being Semi-Pro due to the fact its obviously very difficult to make a full time living doing what you do within your own style or brand of music. You are fully comitted within your own boundaries or the boundaries that surround your particular style or niche in the market place. If you wanted to become a full time bassist it might mean playing a different style to make money. Many people don't want to sacrifice their musical preferences for the sake of earning money. (myself included)

Some guys are earning a living from playing in wedding / function bands. I know quite a few and i've been asked to do it myself but its not for me. Many find it boring and a bit of a chore but its how they make a living and they are fully committed to doing it.

Many session bassists have to play whatever music they can to make a wage from it. 

I think from what you mention is that yes you are fully committed to what you do in music but that particular style of music or performance doesn't lend itself to making big money.

Its a bit like rock covers bands. They'll be lucky to make £200-£300 / gig divided between 4 or 5 members. A good wedding band will be earning Upwards of £2-£3k /gig.

If i try to summarise it and please be aware i have no idea what style of music you play or prefer but I would say you are fully committed to your genre of music more than committed to being a full time bassist. The more professional you want to be means more sacrifices in life. Obviously there are some lucky people in the right place at the right time too. I'm not one of those people i'm afraid.

Having re-read this i'm not sure its even helped but i'll post it anyway. Sure it will be critised or picked upon as being wrong but at least it creates discussion and that's why we are all on Basschat 

Dave

 

I’m not fully committed to being a full-time bassist, because it’s only part of what I do; to me being a musician Is far more than simply being a bassist, although it’s certainly possible to only be a bassist and still be just as much a musician. Probably an odd place to voice it on a bass forum, but solely playing bass isn’t that important to me in the scheme of things. Because the important thing to me is the music itself. Creating music is far more important to me than making a living from it. Whether that music enables me to make a living is entirely out of my hands. Not comparing myself in any way, but there must be thousands of tremendous writers and musicians who aren’t able to make a living from it because they are more concerned with making art - even if no-one else views it as such - than making money. IMO, the former is far more musicianly than the latter, although some lucky people get to combine the two. If pushed, I judge a musician by their commitment to making music, not by their ability earn a crust. Again, YMMV.

Edited November 22, 2018 by 4000

[dmccombe7]

41 minutes ago, 4000 said:

I’m not fully committed to being a full-time bassist, because it’s only part of what I do; to me being a musician Is far more than simply being a bassist, although it’s certainly possible to only be a bassist and still be just as much a musician. Probably an odd place to voice it on a bass forum, but solely playing bass isn’t that important to me in the scheme of things. Because the important thing to me is the music itself. Creating music is far more important to me than making a living from it. Whether that music enables me to make a living is entirely out of my hands. Not comparing myself in any way, but there must be thousands of tremendous writers and musicians who aren’t able to make a living from it because they are more concerned with making art - even if no-one else views it as such - than making money. IMO, the former is far more musicianly than the latter, although some lucky people get to combine the two. If pushed, I judge a musician by their commitment to making music, not by their ability earn a crust. Again, YMMV.

As i said i don't know you or what you do musically but you could substitute musician for bassist in what i said and it would still mean the same thing. I only used bassist because its a bass forum and assumed that's what most of us do.

You're committed to your music but from what i can gather there's no significant money to be made in your genre of music unless you get the lucky break that many wish for yet few attain.

I do know several friends in a similar position to what you describe altho possibly a different style of music. All excellent musicians but there's no popular demand for their particular style of music and therefore not much chance of making a reasonable living from it. They continue to produce their own albums and release them on line. They are fully committed to writing, playing and producing music but they will only ever be semi pro unless they get that lucky break and sell lots of albums for profit. They also will not diversify into doing other styles or even doing covers to earn money by playing. They see themselves more as song-writers and the musicianship is just a way of showing their art.

I had to google YMMV  it must be an age thing 

Dave

[leschirons]

I play bass, guitar and drums so I'm three musicians.😂

[dmccombe7]

9 hours ago, leschirons said:

I play bass, guitar and drums so I'm three musicians.😂

A triplet

[totorbass]

14 hours ago, FinnDave said:

If people ask me what I do, I say I am a musician, simply because I don't do anything else, nor do I want to. If people ask me if I earn my living from music, I tell 'em to mind their own feckin business! 

Reminds me of the little girl hearing a Toad near a pond : "Hey, I'm a musician, I've been cursed by a witch, just kiss me, I'll become normal again and marry you …". Then the girl just puts him in her Pocket, and goes away, saying "I'll earn way more money with a speaking Toad".  

[Nicko]

I don't get this Pro/Semi Pro/Amateur musician distinction.  How you earn your income has nothing to do with your muscicianship.  I wouldn't normally call a record producer a musician, but Nile Rodgers doesn't become a lesser musician when he's producing records does he?

[dmccombe7]

Its really just a generalisation. 

Its a good point tho because he earns a good income from being a musician and same with being a producer so you've kind of got me there. I would have classed him as a Pro Musician but then again his income from Producing ?????? Jings that's thrown me a wobbler.

If his income is more from being a musician then his producing is part time but its when you reverse that and his main income is production then his playing becomes part time and he's a semi pro which just doesn't make sense at all. That's totally thrown my arguement right out the window 

To be fair tho your average person doesn't do that.

Dave

[Nicko]

3 hours ago, dmccombe7 said:

Its really just a generalisation. 

Its a good point tho because he earns a good income from being a musician and same with being a producer so you've kind of got me there. I would have classed him as a Pro Musician but then again his income from Producing ?????? Jings that's thrown me a wobbler.

If his income is more from being a musician then his producing is part time but its when you reverse that and his main income is production then his playing becomes part time and he's a semi pro which just doesn't make sense at all. That's totally thrown my arguement right out the window 

To be fair tho your average person doesn't do that.

Dave

Nah, I just used him as an example, could have said Johnny Depp or Jared Leto as other examples, although I'm not sure how good Depp is, I must say I'm partial to a bit of 30 Seconds to Mars.  I think it proves the point though.

[dmccombe7]

5 hours ago, Nicko said:

Nah, I just used him as an example, could have said Johnny Depp or Jared Leto as other examples, although I'm not sure how good Depp is, I must say I'm partial to a bit of 30 Seconds to Mars.  I think it proves the point though.

Johnny Depp is def a semi pro tho. 

However his musical career is very full on Pro. 

Dave

Edited November 23, 2018 by dmccombe7

[4000]

10 hours ago, Nicko said:

I don't get this Pro/Semi Pro/Amateur musician distinction.  How you earn your income has nothing to do with your muscicianship.  I wouldn't normally call a record producer a musician, but Nile Rodgers doesn't become a lesser musician when he's producing records does he?

This. 

[ambient]

If you play music then you're a musician. 

With regard to people doing other things too that aren't playing, but are still within music, we were encouraged at uni to adopt a portfolio approach to a career; so playing, teaching, composing etc.

[4000]

On 22/11/2018 at 21:03, dmccombe7 said:

As i said i don't know you or what you do musically but you could substitute musician for bassist in what i said and it would still mean the same thing. I only used bassist because its a bass forum and assumed that's what most of us do.

You're committed to your music but from what i can gather there's no significant money to be made in your genre of music unless you get the lucky break that many wish for yet few attain.

I do know several friends in a similar position to what you describe altho possibly a different style of music. All excellent musicians but there's no popular demand for their particular style of music and therefore not much chance of making a reasonable living from it. They continue to produce their own albums and release them on line. They are fully committed to writing, playing and producing music but they will only ever be semi pro unless they get that lucky break and sell lots of albums for profit. They also will not diversify into doing other styles or even doing covers to earn money by playing. They see themselves more as song-writers and the musicianship is just a way of showing their art.

I had to google YMMV  it must be an age thing 

Dave

As per previous post, you seem to be of the opinion that earning money somehow has something to do with being a musician. It doesn’t. I also paint, I studied fine art and illustration at degree level, but I don’t paint for anyone but myself, and I don’t sell my work. At all. But I’m still a painter, because I paint.

As for how important making money from your art is relative to your status as an artist, you may wish to speak to Vincent Van Gogh. 😉  

If you mean being a professional musician (a different distinction) then bear in mind that being a full-time musician doesn’t mean you’re necessarily better. It may mean you’ve been lucky, it may mean you’re easy to get along with (ask Guy Pratt), it may just mean that you’re more willing to compromise. It may even mean that you don’t really care about creating art and just like to play.

Edited November 23, 2018 by 4000

[dmccombe7]

He's not less of a musician tho. He earns enough to make a living from both being a musician or producer which for me makes him a Pro musician and pro producer

Not everyone has that luxury.

 Everyone that plays music or contributes to playing or making music is still a musician. For me its down to whether they are making a full time living from their music that determines whether or not they are classed as Pro, Semi-Pro or Amatuer.

A Semi Pro can be just as accomplished or proficient at playing their instrument as a Pro and in some cases probably better. The only real difference that i can see is the income issue but if someone else can explain it better i'm open to listening and taking on board.

[4000]

10 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

 

 Everyone that plays music or contributes to playing or making music is still a musician. For me its down to whether they are making a full time living from their music that determines whether or not they are classed as Pro, Semi-Pro or Amatuer.

A Semi Pro can be just as accomplished or proficient at playing their instrument as a Pro and in some cases probably better. The only real difference that i can see is the income issue but if someone else can explain it better i'm open to listening and taking on board.

This is what I’ve been saying all along! Amateur, semi-pro or pro makes no difference to whether you are a musician or not.

[dmccombe7]

On 15/11/2018 at 18:19, dmccombe7 said:

If you can make music whether that's within a band or solo you are a musician in my book.

 

Dave

 

15 minutes ago, 4000 said:

As per previous post, you seem to be of the opinion that earning money somehow has something to do with being a musician. It doesn’t. I also paint, I studied fine art and illustration at degree level, but I don’t paint for anyone but myself, and I don’t sell my work. At all. But I’m still a painter, because I paint.

As for how important making money from your art is relative to your status as an artist, you may wish to speak to Vincent Van Gogh. 😉  

If you mean being a professional musician (a different distinction) then bear in mind that being a full-time musician doesn’t mean you’re necessarily better. It may mean you’ve been lucky, it may mean you’re easy to get along with (ask Guy Pratt), it may just mean that you’re more willing to compromise. It may even mean that you don’t really care about creating art and just like to play.

If you read my original post i made it very clear that if you make music you are a musician.

I said the difference between a Pro, Semi Pro or Amatuer musician was down to whether they made a sufficient income from their music to be full time (Pro) or Semi Pro (part time) NOT THE SAME THING

 

[4000]

3 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

 

If you read my original post i made it very clear that if you make music you are a musician.

I said the difference between a Pro, Semi Pro or Amatuer musician was down to whether they made a sufficient income from their music to be full time (Pro) or Semi Pro (part time) NOT THE SAME THING

 

Then I don’t really grasp why you appear to have been disagreeing with my points. 😉 

BTW, the YMMV thing, I’m 55. Are you much older or much younger? 🙂

Edited November 23, 2018 by 4000

[dmccombe7]

Just now, 4000 said:

This is what I’ve been saying all along! Amateur, semi-pro or pro makes no difference to whether you are a musician or not.

That was what my opening line was in this thread but you thought i meant musical ability or musicianship determined whether a Pro or not. 

Musicianship is a completely different thing from the Pro, Semi-Pro arguement which was my 2nd line in my original post on this thread.

Where we got confused was the commitment part and whether someone was committed enough to go Pro. That's the part we tend to disagree on..........i think.

If there's no demand for your music and you still want to be a Pro you should be committed enough to play any style of music you can to earn a living.  For yourself (and me) we don't want to give up on our own style of music to commit to going Professional. Well to be honest i didn't want to give up on my own job which at the time i really enjoyed so playing bass was more a hobby for quite a few yrs.

Dave 

[dmccombe7]

3 minutes ago, 4000 said:

Then I don’t really grasp why you appear to have been disagreeing with my points. 😉 

BTW, the YMMV thing, I’m 55. Are you much older or much younger? 🙂

Few yrs older but not by much.

[dmccombe7]

3 minutes ago, 4000 said:

Then I don’t really grasp why you appear to have been disagreeing with my points. 😉 

BTW, the YMMV thing, I’m 55. Are you much older or much younger? 🙂

I think you disagreed with what i said originally based on the commitment part.

 

[4000]

1 minute ago, dmccombe7 said:

That was what my opening line was in this thread but you thought i meant musical ability or musicianship determined whether a Pro or not. 

Musicianship is a completely different thing from the Pro, Semi-Pro arguement which was my 2nd line in my original post on this thread.

Where we got confused was the commitment part and whether someone was committed enough to go Pro. That's the part we tend to disagree on..........i think.

If there's no demand for your music and you still want to be a Pro you should be committed enough to play any style of music you can to earn a living.  For yourself (and me) we don't want to give up on our own style of music to commit to going Professional. Well to be honest i didn't want to give up on my own job which at the time i really enjoyed so playing bass was more a hobby for quite a few yrs.

Dave 

 

Just now, dmccombe7 said:

I think you disagreed with what i said originally based on the commitment part.

 

I think our definition of commitment maybe differs. For me and many others, committing to my music is more important. For some pros, committing to playing - regardless of what that happens to be - is more important. Each to their own. Of course if my band suddenly became hugely popular, however unlikely that might be, then I’d be having my cake and eating it. 😉

[dmccombe7]

Perhaps its just misunderstanding of each others comments but it did provide an interesting debate for a bit there including the Nile Rodgers thing 

 

[4000]

6 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Few yrs older but not by much.

I obviously spend too much time on Internet forums. 😁