Wedding Band PA

[Crawford13]

Hi folks,

Im just starting a wedding band and looking at getting a PA. Can anyone give me any advice on what they use for their wedding band? The subject seems like a bit of a mine field.  Thanks in advance.

[EBS_freak]

It all depends on budget on what you intend on using the PA for - for example, is it for vocals only, or are you wanting to put the whole band through it?

Are you looking to get a desk, or are you talking just speakers?

Edited November 19, 2018 by EBS_freak

[Happy Jack]

12 hours ago, Crawford13 said:

The subject seems like a bit of a mine field. 

Can't imagine what might have given you that idea ...

Good luck with your quest.

 

[Crawford13]

Sorry should have given much more detail. Budget wise is tough as it’s a start up band therefore we are treating it as a growing business. I would imagine first outlay would be between £2-3k.

Intend for the whole band to go through, 3 vocal mics, 4 drum mics, guitar DI,d through a helix, bass DI’d through a sans amp. We would also have a laptop and a Roland spd going through it too. 

Would be looking for a desk as we intend to all use in ears.

[Happy Jack]

Will you have a sound guy out front or operate the mix from on-stage?

 

[EBS_freak]

X32 Rack, RCF 735x2 with a suitcase of XLR cables (do not skimp here, expect to pay at least £20 for a 6m XLR, preferably something like Vandamme, Klotz, Sommer - handmade, as tag machine soldered XLRs will fail), a pair of hotcovers for the cabs, a rack case for the X32, a few DIs (look at Orchid Electronics), a couple of stands, some Behringer P2 wired inear packs all for under 3k should get you quite a formidable, portable wedding rig - with the provision for stereo IEMs too!

Those tops will happily have bass and kick through them, as well as the rest of the band. No need for subs unless you stepping up to play some big venues. Just those tops will do 95% of wedding venues without a sweat.

Dont forget lots of power leads with lots of sockets on too.

 

You didn't mention mics, but a set of AKG Session Ones (factor in two stands for overheads) for the drums are great, as are D5s for vocals.

Edited November 19, 2018 by EBS_freak

[Crawford13]

15 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

Will you have a sound guy out front or operate the mix from on-stage?

 

Most gigs we would be mixing from on stage. However for big gigs we could sort out a FOH guy.

[Crawford13]

15 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

X32 Rack, RCF 735x2 with a suitcase of XLR cables (do not skimp here, expect to pay at least £20 for a 6m XLR, preferably something like Vandamme, Klotz, Sommer - handmade, as tag machine soldered XLRs will fail), a pair of hotcovers for the cabs, a rack case for the X32, a few DIs (look at Orchid Electronics), a couple of stands, some Behringer P2 wired inear packs all for under 3k should get you quite a formidable, portable wedding rig - with the provision for stereo IEMs too!

Those tops will happily have bass and kick through them, as well as the rest of the band. No need for subs unless you stepping up to play some big venues. Just those tops will do 95% of wedding venues without a sweat.

Dont forget lots of power leads with lots of sockets on too.

 

You didn't mention mics, but a set of AKG Session Ones (factor in two stands for overheads) for the drums are great, as are D5s for vocals.

Thanks man, I really appreciate the advice!

[Happy Jack]

55 minutes ago, Crawford13 said:

Most gigs we would be mixing from on stage. However for big gigs we could sort out a FOH guy.

Might be worth investigating a mixer controlled by a tablet, allowing you to do both/either.

 

[jrixn1]

We are a 9- to 11-piece with QSC PA which is 2 x K8 and 2 x KSub.  The KSub have wheels so it's not so bad and you can use them as carts to push the rest of the gear around.  The mixer is a Mackie digital wifi one.  The bandleader mixes FOH with an iPad, and each individual musician does their own monitor mix with a phone or tablet.  We have a few more QSC K for monitors, or use in-ears.  I can't imagine it working very well without a digital desk.  We have so many cables!  We have a wheeled flightcase trunk just for XLR and power cables...

[atsampson]

We're a six-piece ceilidh band playing around the Aberdeen-Glasgow-Edinburgh triangle, so we're probably playing some of the same locations as you: lots of hotels, farmyard wedding venues and village halls, and the occasional tent. Two fiddles (one doubling on mandolin/banjo), acoustic guitar, bass, drums and dance caller. 2-3 vocal mics (SM58S), drum mics (SM57), and radio mic for the caller.

We have two JBL Eon 612 active main speakers, which I've been very impressed with. No subs - they kick out more than enough bass for the venues we play. They talk Bluetooth so you can tweak their built-in EQ from the dance floor if the presets aren't sufficient (we've only needed this a couple of times).

Two Alto TS210 active monitors - I'd love to go IEMs but it'd be a big investment that we can't really justify. The Altos can be used as backups for the mains, and they're also great for "can you set up a mic for the speeches?" situations.

Yamaha MG20 mixer - a neat little rackmount analogue mixer with 16 mic preamps plus a few line inputs. Good ergonomics, particularly the well-lit mute buttons. For live recordings, I'd like either channel inserts or a couple more aux sends, but it does a lot in a small space and was remarkably cheap.

Orchid DI boxes (some Muting, some Mini) for all the instruments.

We have a rack case from Thomann for the mixer (with space underneath for the radio mic receiver, spare strings, headphones, business cards etc. etc.) and another large flight case for all the cables, microphones and DI boxes. And a Homebase sale last year furnished us with several 10m Permaplug 4-way mains extensions in a highly-visible shade of bright green...

[Crawford13]

5 minutes ago, atsampson said:

We're a six-piece ceilidh band playing around the Aberdeen-Glasgow-Edinburgh triangle, so we're probably playing some of the same locations as you: lots of hotels, farmyard wedding venues and village halls, and the occasional tent. Two fiddles (one doubling on mandolin/banjo), acoustic guitar, bass, drums and dance caller. 2-3 vocal mics (SM58S), drum mics (SM57), and radio mic for the caller.

We have two JBL Eon 612 active main speakers, which I've been very impressed with. No subs - they kick out more than enough bass for the venues we play. They talk Bluetooth so you can tweak their built-in EQ from the dance floor if the presets aren't sufficient (we've only needed this a couple of times).

Two Alto TS210 active monitors - I'd love to go IEMs but it'd be a big investment that we can't really justify. The Altos can be used as backups for the mains, and they're also great for "can you set up a mic for the speeches?" situations.

Yamaha MG20 mixer - a neat little rackmount analogue mixer with 16 mic preamps plus a few line inputs. Good ergonomics, particularly the well-lit mute buttons. For live recordings, I'd like either channel inserts or a couple more aux sends, but it does a lot in a small space and was remarkably cheap.

Orchid DI boxes (some Muting, some Mini) for all the instruments.

We have a rack case from Thomann for the mixer (with space underneath for the radio mic receiver, spare strings, headphones, business cards etc. etc.) and another large flight case for all the cables, microphones and DI boxes. And a Homebase sale last year furnished us with several 10m Permaplug 4-way mains extensions in a highly-visible shade of bright green...

Thanks dude, I appreciate the advice!

[itu]

20 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

...with a suitcase of XLR cables (do not skimp here, expect to pay at least £20 for a 6m XLR, preferably something like Vandamme, Klotz, Sommer - handmade, as tag machine soldered XLRs will fail)...

...a rack case for the (mixer)... 

...a couple of stands...

Dont forget lots of power leads with lots of sockets on too.

Buy VERY GOOD quality cables and few extras, too. After some time you will certainly understand the reason for this. Buy decent cases for the equipment. Plastic bags are a chore. If you believe that a cable is just a cable, leave few home while going to a new gig during Saturday afternoon: all local stores are closed and the nearest available cable is - at home. If your bass case has just one single cable, you have to be optimistic, too optimistic, that is. I know bassists are reasonable in keeping their stuff in good shape but your band probably has a guitarist or even worse, two. They tend to forget or brake their lousy (brand name here) spiral cables and keyboardist just forgot one of his cables to the rehearsal place. "This time only!"

Power leads do not cost so much on Thursday but you can't buy one (five!) at any price on Saturday evening, when you happen to need them most. Local clubs may have them and usually not. Write your band's name to the power leads. Use permanent markers and big letters. You may buy cables in different colors, they are easier to find in "complete darkness". Buy lots of Velcros to keep the cables in shape. This one single velcro per cable will reduce the time to set up the scene. They will help you to keep the cables in shape for years to come.

There is also the other way: expect Someone Else to keep the wire territory in shape in those funny plastic bags (which are put in between and under stands, drums, mixer and guitar amps in that fully packed Ford Fiasco) with your band and your life will be a chore from the second night on stage. After the first two gigs most of your gear is in terrible condition and you need to visit your local musicshop soon. You pay the price of a single cable twice.

Why do I know this? Yes, I have been gigging since late 1980's and I have seen all this happen with several bands. I have already paid the price you don't have to.

[EBS_freak]

11 hours ago, atsampson said:

Two Alto TS210 active monitors - I'd love to go IEMs but it'd be a big investment that we can't really justify.

As long as you have an aux available...

Behringer P2 off Gear4Music - £26

ZS10s off Amazon - £35

Decent cable, mixer to P2 - £20

£81.

 

 

[Jack]

When I asked this years ago on PSW a wise old owl told me to that you always spend 50% more than the big ticket items. In other words, if you've got £3k for this, don't spend any more than £2k on mixer, speakers, monitors. That way you've got £1000 left for accessories. I thought this was overly cautious, but several PA purchases later I've realised it's great advice. A good speaker stand is £30 minimum. Roqsolid or similar cases can be £75+ per speaker. That's £450 if you've got 2 mains, 2 subs and 2 wedges. If you're micing all of the drums and all of the instruments then that's 10 cables easy, the more for the mains and monitors (IEMs normally use more cables than wedges) so maybe that's 20 cables, 25 with spares. That's £300+. Don't get me wrong, £2-3k is a decent budget, it's all doable, but don't spend a grand each on two nice mains and one nice mixer, because there's a whole lot more to it than that!

 

Everyone will have their favorite brands and specifics, but the general advice above is to go digital mixer and powered cabs and I 100% agree. We don't do too many weddings, maybe 2-3 a year, but we do a lot of other functions, birthday parties, biker rallies and such with the following.

Behringer XR18 (£400 used for me, they've come WAY down in price now to less than that new)
American Audio Media Operator (£100, backing music between sets)
MikroTik hap Mini (£25, a must as EVERY digital mixer router is carp....)
All of the above in a 4U Gator shallow rack (£60 or so)
This rack is mine rather than the band's and I use it with other speakers in other projects.

Mains: 2x Alto TS115A (£500 used)
Subs: 2x Alto TS18A (£500 used)
Mons/Fills/Etc: 2x Alto TS115A and 2x Alto TS112A (can't remember the prices and we don't often use all 4)
We mix and match the 4x 15s and the 2x 12s, often use the 12s as tops for instance. If I'd have had my way we'd have gone for 2 nice tops (and no subs) like the RCFs mentioned above, but I was outvoted as the band balked at the price and "we need subs". I'd like IEMs in principle but I have an hearing problem in one ear and I find any headphones disorienting and really uncomfortable.

 

[Phil Starr]

On ‎19‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 10:29, EBS_freak said:

X32 Rack, RCF 735x2 with a suitcase of XLR cables (do not skimp here, expect to pay at least £20 for a 6m XLR, preferably something like Vandamme, Klotz, Sommer - handmade, as tag machine soldered XLRs will fail), a pair of hotcovers for the cabs, a rack case for the X32, a few DIs (look at Orchid Electronics), a couple of stands, some Behringer P2 wired inear packs all for under 3k should get you quite a formidable, portable wedding rig - with the provision for stereo IEMs too!

Those tops will happily have bass and kick through them, as well as the rest of the band. No need for subs unless you stepping up to play some big venues. Just those tops will do 95% of wedding venues without a sweat.

Dont forget lots of power leads with lots of sockets on too.

 

You didn't mention mics, but a set of AKG Session Ones (factor in two stands for overheads) for the drums are great, as are D5s for vocals.

Good advice but a couple of points that you might like to consider. You said you are mixing from on stage. I'd be thinking about something with some physical sliders for those moments when something goes wrong and you need to tweak a channel and keep the music going at the same time. Pretty tough to use a touch screen and play bass at the same time but hitting a physical switch or fader if you've forgotten to change scene is a bit more practical.

The other consideration is the vocal mics. I've got 3x AKG D5's and the sound is fantastic and they are a bargain but the downside is that they are fairly demanding of your mic technique, you have to keep your head fairly still as going even slightly off axis or misjudging your proximity kills the volume, the downside of their feedback rejection. Mic's suit some voices better than others and some singers prefer a less demanding cardioid mic. (secretly I like the rest of the band to use the predictable, reliable, good sounding D5's but I am rubbish with them and use a Sennheiser 935 or a Shure)

I'd really look at the RCF 735's though, you'll get a better sound than most of the tops and subs mentioned here and cut down on the hassle factor. It'll be a long time before you need any more than this and you can add a sub or two if you need to once the money starts rolling in, personally I suspect you won't.

[stingrayPete1977]

I can't see much difference between physical sliders and tablet ones, I have the tablet next to me with it set on screen locked onto the FOH mix. I'd rather have a tablet next to me than a desk with wires everywhere. 

[TrevorR]

And since nobody has mentioned it, Dave at Rock Wire http://www.rock-wire.co.uk/ our very own @obbm will see you right for the best possible cables and connectors at a very reasonable price. Better than any off the shelf stuff and no more expensive. I’m addicted to his new Sommer cable... buy wisely, buy once as they say!

[TrevorR]

On 02/12/2018 at 14:26, stingrayPete1977 said:

I can't see much difference between physical sliders and tablet ones, I have the tablet next to me with it set on screen locked onto the FOH mix. I'd rather have a tablet next to me than a desk with wires everywhere. 

It’s nice having both options for those moments when Bluetooth or Wi-fi connection gets glitchy or laggy.

 

But I’d never want to go back to not being able to tweak my monitors from my tablet!

Edited December 8, 2018 by TrevorR

[stingrayPete1977]

I've added a free wireless router to mine after changing broadband provider, no dropouts and faster than the built in one. 

I actually like not having a physical desk next to me anymore and being able to put it at the back in the middle effectively makes all the leads longer. 

[Kamiel]

On 20/11/2018 at 09:00, itu said:

Buy VERY GOOD quality cables and few extras, too. After some time you will certainly understand the reason for this. Buy decent cases for the equipment. Plastic bags are a chore. If you believe that a cable is just a cable, leave few home while going to a new gig during Saturday afternoon: all local stores are closed and the nearest available cable is - at home. If your bass case has just one single cable, you have to be optimistic, too optimistic, that is. I know bassists are reasonable in keeping their stuff in good shape but your band probably has a guitarist or even worse, two. They tend to forget or brake their lousy (brand name here) spiral cables and keyboardist just forgot one of his cables to the rehearsal place. "This time only!"

So it isn't only me who believes bassplayers are the only people with proper cable management? If I had a dollar for every time MY extra cable had to serve as a guitar cable because one of our guitarists forgot or broke their flimsy sh*tty cable... I would be able to buy them some decent cables. 

[Jack]

On 08/12/2018 at 15:34, stingrayPete1977 said:

I've added a free wireless router to mine after changing broadband provider, no dropouts and faster than the built in one. 

I actually like not having a physical desk next to me anymore and being able to put it at the back in the middle effectively makes all the leads longer. 

Yup, wifi router is a must. I repurposed a Mikrotik hap mini. Mixer is buried beside the drum kit with a media player, when the set starts the drummer turns the music down and when the set finishes he rolls the music back up.