Band versus Bassist

[stewblack]

Just a snappy title to get the ball rolling. What has actually been taxiing the old bean of late is this. The further I delve into this wonderful instrument of ours the more great bass players I come across or have recommended to me. Just recently Scott Devine did another instalment of his "bass players you must check out" series on Youtube. It occurred to me that the bassists I revere most of all played or play for bands I also happen to love. The ultimate team for me being Thomas/Costello as I loved the lyrics and the basslines - win win.

So how do the rest of you go about listening to and enjoying the bassist if he or she plays in a style or for a band which makes you grind your teeth? Can you in fact ever truly appreciate say James Jamerson if you hate Motown? (God that was difficult to type - I mean can you even imagine such a scenario?) Would I have instantly warmed to Joe Dart if he hadn't been surrounded by such astonishingly good musicians and songwriters? Why does Elvis Costello's output since his split with Bruce seem so empty to me? What about this whole chicken/egg thing I hear so much about? Questions questions.

I'd like to enjoy the great work the bass player from Jamiroquai does but (with respect to all of their multiple fans here) I don't enjoy listening to the music so how will I ever? Similarly Squire and Lee. I do manage to sit through the insufferable prepubescent screeching of the young Michael Jackson in order to enjoy the music he yowled over - but only just.

Thoughts?

[Stylon Pilson]

I'm of the opinion that the bass is a part of the music, and can't be separated from it. Geddy Lee is a fine example - while I can logically and dispassionately acknowledge that what he's doing is technically very good, there's no way I would ever describe myself as "enjoying" it. I am not ashamed of this.

S.P.

[Low End Bee]

4 minutes ago, Stylon Pilson said:

I'm of the opinion that the bass is a part of the music, and can't be separated from it. Geddy Lee is a fine example - while I can logically and dispassionately acknowledge that what he's doing is technically very good, there's no way I would ever describe myself as "enjoying" it. I am not ashamed of this.

S.P.

Exactly.

I like songs and music. I don't think I'd like Rush just because they had Paul Simonon on bass for instance. Although that would be funny.

 

[WinterMute]

Paul McCartney... Brilliant bassist, Paperback Writer is almost lead bass. He's fluid and melodic and integrates with his bandmates very well indeed.

Generally can't stand anything he's ever had anything to do with, Beatles included... While My Guitar Gently Weeps excepted.

[Maude]

I also need to like the band to like the bass player. 

Paul McCartney, Chris Squire, Geddy Lee, Victor Wooten, Stanley Clark, Jaco, Billy Sheehan, and others I've forgotten. It wouldn't bother me if they never played or recorded again and their entire back catalogue was deleted. 

Now cast me out 😁

[Cato]

I can listen to and enjoy just about anything if the bass is good enough.

ABBA being an example that springs immediately to mind. Musically they're not my cup of tea at all but the bass on some of their tracks is absolutely outstanding.

[BigRedX]

For me the actual music comes first and the musicians who play it it a long way down the order certainly behind the songwriting/composition, production and image.

I don't care how "good" a musician you are if I don't like the music that you play, you are IMO using your powers for evil and consequently of no interest to me.

[Nicko]

2 hours ago, Stylon Pilson said:

I'm of the opinion that the bass is a part of the music, and can't be separated from it. Geddy Lee is a fine example - while I can logically and dispassionately acknowledge that what he's doing is technically very good, there's no way I would ever describe myself as "enjoying" it. I am not ashamed of this.

S.P.

I agree, It's the same as art - I can appreciate the artistic inventiveness of Jackson Pollock's paintings, but there is a reason for rhyming slang.

[4000]

The music should always come first.

The bass players in all the bands I love are an integral part of the music (and which incidentally include Squire, Lee, Burnel,  Macca,  Zender). However, following a recent conversation about Vulfpeck (who I’d never heard of, so gave a listen), it recently occurred to me that many bassists seem to be into stuff that leaves me utterly cold. Motown, Steely Dan (who I tried for years to like until finally admitting they affect me like nails down a blackboard), loads of so-called “blues” (anyone who has seen Ghost World will understand), soul/r&b/what I refer to as “funk lite” & “fusion lite” (admittedly early Jamiroquai could qualify here but for some reason I love them). Weather Report are another who I convinced myself for years were great, when actually they only do marginally more for me than Kenny G. Joni Mitchell is another on the Kenny G scale. 😂

FWIW, I love everything about ABBA.

[Delberthot]

I love music as a whole but actually find most bass players boring to listen to on their own, regardless of how widdly they get. I don't like solo instruments at all really, I much prefer a whole band playing

I actually get more enjoyment listening to drummers which is odd in itself but not so odd in the fact that my drummer prefers to listen to bass players than drummers

[Osiris]

I always liked Duff McKagan as a bassist, some great melodic lines, but the rest of Guns & Roses leave me cold, including Slash as a guitarist. There's something about his guitar tone that irritates me. Nowhere near as much as Axle Roses nauseating screeching does though, that man makes my ears bleed. 

I really like Bernard Edwards' bass lines too but really don't care for whole Disco style, it's too happy and twee for my miserable disposition 😀

[stewblack]

So far it seems I am not alone. While we may differ in terms of what we like, many of us it seems need to like the whole package before we can truly love the bass player. Begs a question what happens if a favourite player goes off and joins someone I don't like ? 🙉

[peteb]

I'm obviously the odd one out here in that I can appreciate and try to learn from great musicians (especially bass players for obvious reasons), even if I don't particularly care for the music.

For example, I'm not a big fan of Motown, but I certainty don't dismiss it as worthless and I have specifically listened to a lot of the headlines in those records...

[Wolverinebass]

3 hours ago, BigRedX said:

For me the actual music comes first and the musicians who play it it a long way down the order certainly behind the songwriting/composition, production and image.

I don't care how "good" a musician you are if I don't like the music that you play, you are IMO using your powers for evil and consequently of no interest to me.

Yes in the first point. I couldn't give a toss about image. Good music is good music.

The second part I'm surely misreading. Should it not be if you (the player) don't like the music you personally play you're wasting your time? Reading that as it's written makes it sound like if you (bigredx) think something is crap, then the musicians are wasting their talents? 

I'm quite happy to learn from anyone, so I guess there's something to be said for not writing stuff off maybe?

On the other hand, I quite enjoy the notion of using my bass playing powers for evil. Sounds fun!

[stewblack]

31 minutes ago, peteb said:

I'm obviously the odd one out here in that I can appreciate and try to learn from great musicians (especially bass players for obvious reasons), even if I don't particularly care for the music.

For example, I'm not a big fan of Motown, but I certainty don't dismiss it as worthless and I have specifically listened to a lot of the headlines in those records...

I definitely don't want to give you the impression I dismiss as worthless music I dislike. Far from it. I'm saying I want to be able to learn from as wide a group of musicians as possible. I'm asking how I can truly appreciate them if I don't like the music they're part of.

[peteb]

33 minutes ago, stewblack said:

I definitely don't want to give you the impression I dismiss as worthless music I dislike. Far from it. I'm saying I want to be able to learn from as wide a group of musicians as possible. I'm asking how I can truly appreciate them if I don't like the music they're part of.

Jaco has had an influence on bass players far beyond the fusion genre. Ditto, Jamerson heavily influenced John Paul Jones {amongst many, many others), even though Led Zep were not otherwise particularly influenced by Motown. If you genuinely do want to learn from 'as wide a group of musicians as possible', then you do have to listen to as many great players as possible, even if the music (as opposed to the playing) is not to your taste. 

[Bob Lord]

8 hours ago, stewblack said:

Just a snappy title to get the ball rolling. What has actually been taxiing the old bean of late is this. The further I delve into this wonderful instrument of ours the more great bass players I come across or have recommended to me. Just recently Scott Devine did another instalment of his "bass players you must check out" series on Youtube. It occurred to me that the bassists I revere most of all played or play for bands I also happen to love. The ultimate team for me being Thomas/Costello as I loved the lyrics and the basslines - win win.

So how do the rest of you go about listening to and enjoying the bassist if he or she plays in a style or for a band which makes you grind your teeth? Can you in fact ever truly appreciate say James Jamerson if you hate Motown? (God that was difficult to type - I mean can you even imagine such a scenario?) Would I have instantly warmed to Joe Dart if he hadn't been surrounded by such astonishingly good musicians and songwriters? Why does Elvis Costello's output since his split with Bruce seem so empty to me? What about this whole chicken/egg thing I hear so much about? Questions questions.

I'd like to enjoy the great work the bass player from Jamiroquai does but (with respect to all of their multiple fans here) I don't enjoy listening to the music so how will I ever? Similarly Squire and Lee. I do manage to sit through the insufferable prepubescent screeching of the young Michael Jackson in order to enjoy the music he yowled over - but only just.

Thoughts?

Erm... I'll sometimes listen to music i'm not otherwise keen on, if the bass player's really good, but there's that much great music out there that ticks more boxes, that I don't see the point making yourself suffer just to hear a well played bass...

I have to say, many of the most amazing bass players on the planet seem to choose to play the most unoriginal, antiseptic, landfill jazz rock fusion. It seems that being a great bass player doesn't necessarily make you a great artist

[Ricky 4000]

I was in disagreement with many of the posts on here, until I reflected on how I probably would like to listen to Tina Weymouth -- if I had some special "David Byrne and his guitar cancelling" headphones. 

Edited November 20, 2018 by Ricky 4000
fairness

[Cuzzie]

I think we all agree that for our tastes good music and good bass go hand in hand. Now that player could just be hitting one note, but it’s subtle things like the length and timing with things around that lift music.

I will listen around music of all genres to get a feeling of tone and composition of bass lines, with reference to what other instruments are doing.

For me guys like dUg Pinnick and Glenn Hughes nail the groove and sound. I could listen to Kings X non stop, but not all Purple. Whilst not as busy a player, Muzz Skillings slays Doug Wimbish IMO, and that defo changed the sound of Living Colour.

Rocco in Tower of Power is a beast, but I get horned out after a while.

Todd Smallie - JJ Grey and the Mofro and Dishan Abraham - prob could listen to th all day.

Its the same with drums and enhancing/spoiling the music. I would listen to Metallica more - but Lars has got less timing and rhythm than a middle aged man Dad dancing the electric boogaloo.

 

[WinterMute]

2 hours ago, Cuzzie said:

Lars has got less timing and rhythm than a middle aged man Dad dancing the electric boogaloo.

 

What he said....

[Barking Spiders]

9 hours ago, Bob Lord said:

Erm... I'll sometimes listen to music i'm not otherwise keen on, if the bass player's really good, but there's that much great music out there that ticks more boxes, that I don't see the point making yourself suffer just to hear a well played bass...

I have to say, many of the most amazing bass players on the planet seem to choose to play the most unoriginal, antiseptic, landfill jazz rock fusion. It seems that being a great bass player doesn't necessarily make you a great artist

Indeed. I've tried getting outside my comfort zone of funk, electronica and hip hop to check out acclaimed players in metal, prog, jazz, classic rock and fusion but I just can't get my head around the music they or their their bands make to get to grips with the basswork.  In the end I decided that as I've got limited music listening time I might as well use it to listen to stuff I actually like. It'a a shame many of the technically advanced players -e.g. Clarke, Wootten, Bill Dickins etc -play some of the most anodyne guff that would shame an elevator  -   There's much to be said for being narrowminded 😀

Edited November 20, 2018 by Barking Spiders

[DaytonaRik]

15 minutes ago, Barking Spiders said:

Indeed. I've tried getting outside my comfort zone of funk, electronica and hip hop to check out acclaimed players in metal, prog, jazz, classic rock and fusion but I just can't get my head around the music they or their their bands make to get to grips with the basswork.  In the end I decided that as I've got limited music listening time I might as well use it to listen to stuff I actually like. It'a a shame many of the technically advanced players -e.g. Clarke, Wootten, Bill Dickins etc -play some of the most anodyne guff that would shame an elevator  -   There's much to be said for being narrowminded 😀

I'm with you BS not afraid to admit it.  I always listen to the bass in the song...not just the bass itself.  I'd rather listen to an AC/DC track with Cliff thudding away root notes that fit the song rather than a load of pretentious fret-womble of the bass kind demonstrating just how technically amazing an individual may be.  I can admire their ability but it leaves me cold

[Japhet]

One of my favorites is Lee Sklar. One minute he's playing one note per bar behind James Taylor and the next he's laying down the groove on Billy Cobham's Stratus. No wonder he's stayed busy all these years.

[EliasMooseblaster]

13 hours ago, Delberthot said:

I actually get more enjoyment listening to drummers which is odd in itself but not so odd in the fact that my drummer prefers to listen to bass players than drummers

Now that's destiny if ever I heard it!

Edited November 20, 2018 by EliasMooseblaster

[Mykesbass]

Got to admit, bass doesn't come first for me. Possibly down to the appalling response of radio speakers of my youth. I'll always remember wondering why the chart rundown had gone silent, only for a short time later when Under Pressure burst into life! 

Nowadays, it is a whole band thing. Sometimes it will be an individual instrument that lifts it, but again, rarely the bass. Arrangements are the real biggy for me. And as a player is where I like to be.