Band versus Bassist

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited March 1, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[FinnDave]

The bloke sounds like a complete knob. When said he was a painter, did he 'accidentally' forget to add 'and decorator'?

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited March 1, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Deedee]

1 hour ago, DaytonaRik said:

I'm with you BS not afraid to admit it.  I always listen to the bass in the song...not just the bass itself.  I'd rather listen to an AC/DC track with Cliff thudding away root notes that fit the song rather than a load of pretentious fret-womble of the bass kind demonstrating just how technically amazing an individual may be.  I can admire their ability but it leaves me cold

Same here. I appreciate how technically advanced a player may be, but 99% of the songs those players choose to parade their skills in are (to me at least) unbearable. Same with some guitarists. Other than a couple of exceptions Steve Vai or Joe Satriani tunes do absolutely nothing for me. 

Some of the greatest songs ever written have very simple basslines that fit the song perfectly. To me (cue the lynch mob and pitchforks) bass is best when it is in its supporting role. That doesn’t mean it needs to be basic, but it doesn’t mean it should be over complicated just for the sake of it either.

[JamieMillsBass]

If I'm making a specific effort to study a bass player because I know it will improve my playing then I'll force myself to listen to stuff I'm not really that into.  If I'm just listening to music for pleasure I'll never force myself to listen to something just because the bass player is good. 

I spent some time a while back transcribing teen town - musically it's just not my thing, would never put it into a playlist to listen too for enjoyment.  But I have taken things from it and incorporated them into my own musical endeavors so it's still a win. 

[thebigyin]

Love Jamerson but not a big Motown fan, my main musical taste is Blues the Bass just does it for me, especially if its funky and a melodic swing to it.

[FinnDave]

I listen to a range of music, from blues to country, ballads to rock, jazz to psychedelia. Luckily, all of those genres are covered by the one band whose CDs occupy a complete shelf above my desk.

[Barking Spiders]

I really couldn't care less about virtuosity although that said a lot of my fave lines aren't basic roots stuff . Still I 'd rather hear summat like the line on PFloyd's 'One of These Days' than any anything on a Vic Wootten solo album . Same goes for electric guitar. For me one of the most deservedly ignored sub-genres is neo-classical metal whatever , which is typified by Yngwie Malmsteen and his disciples. Honestly ,I'd sooner listen to Little Mix.

[WHUFC BASS]

16 hours ago, 4000 said:

The music should always come first.

For me, that statement is probably the best advice any musician and certainly every bass player should take on board. I've had a lot of years experience in playing live and in the studio and have really come to live by that statement. In my younger days, I'd always be looking to make the baseline more interesting and to showcase my chops, when the reality of it was that 99% of the time, that was the exact opposite of what was required. It's knowing when to play and when not to play. It sounds simple but so many bass players (myself included) didn't (and still don't) take this on board.  Thankfully now, I think I've struck that balance and feel much happier playing - even simple eighth notes when you can hear the overall effect you're having on the song.

[ahpook]

To me, it's a package...if I don't care for the music then I'll not spend much time listening to music I don't enjoy 'just for the bass'.

I won't not listen to it - I've checked out albums by quite a number of highly regarded bass players that have been mentioned here (thanks folks), even though the music does little for me, just for my edukashun.

 

[Monkey Steve]

Each to their own, but I'll listen to a band I like first, and if they have a good and interesting bass player, so much the better - Art Liboon's playing in Mordred is a great example.  I don't think it's an exact science - I might like the band more because the bass lines are particularly excellent or interesting, but I'm very unlikely to listen to a genre that I'm not very interested in just because the bass lines are great.  the comparison I'd make is that I know that professional opera singers are very talented, but I don't like any opera that I've heard so I'm not going to start listening to them rather than Motorhead just because the singers are more technically adept than Lemmy.

I have tried to get into the virtuoso stuff but it leaves me cold.  30 years ago I got dragged to see Joe Satriani on the Surfing With The Alien tour by a guitarist friend who thought it was the best music ever made.  Stu Hamm's bass solo was the one bright spot in an otherwise utterly dull evening, so when I found a Stu Hamm solo album I bought it anticipating a brilliant set of songs played by a great musician.  Can't argue about the great musician side of that, but the only song worth listening to was the Moonlight Sonata.  the rest of it was technique over song craft, and I have no interest in that

Edited November 20, 2018 by Monkey Steve

[Japhet]

3 hours ago, Jus Lukin said:

I had a run-in with this exact issue this weekend.

It started with an 'enthusiastic amateur' bass player whom the singer and I know, who pleaded to be allowed to jump up and play a song at our up-coming gig. He clearly wasn't reading our faces- no-one wanted to say no, but we didn't say yes either. The conversation continued with his insistence that I name the bass players that I draw from. I am all about the music; I treat it more like a language than a discipleship, but his name-based perspective wouldn't accept this. I tried to explain that I hear loads of great bass and have no idea who played it, it may be a part in a classical piece, or programmed and played by MIDI to a huge synth sound. Doesn't matter who or how, if it seems good, I can learn from it, and there are many unsung heroes out there. If he must have names, I said the Wrecking Crew guys weren't a bad example: Carol Kaye, Joe Osborn, Ray Pohlman- barely known, played on lots of hits, lots of flops, TV, film, adverts, allsorts- players who provide what is needed, when it's needed. This was not satisfactory- I needed a bass god, and was selling myself short without one. I'd never be any good if I wasn't pinching licks from a 'great'. His was Ray Brown, by the way.

Come the gig in question, 70's rock and pop mostly, Rod Stewart, JJ Cale etc, with guitar, piano, sax, multiple vocals- a classic 'rhythm section' gig, lay it down, keep out of the way. He keeps pestering so we begrudgingly let him up rather than tell him to bugger off. Of course, for three minutes he crashes about doing his 'jazzer ripping it up' thing, muscling everything else out of the way.

After the gig, more pressure- I really should get some lessons from some big name guy, he could give me some lessons if I wanted. I explained that I had played a jazz duo gig that afternoon, completely different approach which may be more to his taste, but no- I couldn't give him a name to tag my musical journey to, and I'd just spent three hours playing dum, dum-dum, so he'd seen all he needed to know.

In reality, I simply let him blather on, and slightly grumpily let him up for a number, but the urge smouldered in the back of my mind to blurt 'LOOK MATE, WHICH ONE OF US IS THE PROFESSIONAL BASS PLAYER HERE?!'. I'm glad I didn't, of course, but I'll be a bit shorter with him in future.

He's a painter and had a comission on the go. I wonder how he would have reacted if I told him he's alright, but he really should pay a lot more attention to Picasso if wants to get it together. I wonder how he'd have reacted if I'd asked to fill in a corner of the painting for him?

Sounds like a 6 stringer masquerading as a bass player to me. I had one experience with some bloke in the audience who I'd been warned about. During the break between sets he told me that what I was playing sounded OK, but my technique needed a lot of work. He offered to give me lessons (which I had been told he frequently did even though he couldn't play a note), so I feigned eagerness and asked for his phone number. When he gave it to me I dropped it straight on the floor and walked off.

[Ricky 4000]

8 hours ago, Cuzzie said:

[...] Whilst not as busy a player, Muzz Skillings slays Doug Wimbish IMO, and that defo changed the sound of Living Colour. [...]

 

Totally agree. The change was a huge disappointment.

Coincidentally, I've been listening to LC again lately, after stumbling across some tracks from the "Biscuits" EP on Youtube. I last had that on a cassette tape! 

Wonder what ever happened to Muzzie? He was so cool.... 😎

[Cuzzie]

I think he did some solo stuff, mulled around last time I looked, but he was just the nuts.

The new LC is ok actually, some nice grooves but the production is heavily compressed

[EliasMooseblaster]

2 hours ago, Japhet said:

Sounds like a 6 stringer masquerading as a bass player to me. I had one experience with some bloke in the audience who I'd been warned about. During the break between sets he told me that what I was playing sounded OK, but my technique needed a lot of work. He offered to give me lessons (which I had been told he frequently did even though he couldn't play a note), so I feigned eagerness and asked for his phone number. When he gave it to me I dropped it straight on the floor and walked off.

What a patronising helmet.

More power to you on a mature and sensible response; was there a palpable temptation to respond with, "yes, similarly your voice sounds OK, but your social skills need a lot of work..."?

[Ricky 4000]

1 hour ago, Cuzzie said:

I think he did some solo stuff, mulled around last time I looked, but he was just the nuts.

The new LC is ok actually, some nice grooves but the production is heavily compressed

I've just had a watch / listen to some of the "new LC" stuff. Glad I did. 👍

I could still listen to the band all day long - except for the new bass player - who clearly thinks he's really good... after all these years, Vernon Reid still looks like he misses Muzzie. 😩

[BassTractor]

6 hours ago, FinnDave said:

Luckily, all of those genres are covered by the one band whose CDs occupy a complete shelf above my desk.

Grating Dad? 😁

[Passinwind]

On 19/11/2018 at 08:19, stewblack said:

Thoughts?

For me studying music performance and actually enjoying it are two very different things. I think a lot of that outlook stems from decades spent either mixing live shows or repairing and modifying amps and other related gear. So I tend to try to give respect to many things I don't particularly like. No need to elaborate more specifically, all that can come of that is giving offense to a few or many, IMO and IME.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Passinwind

[FinnDave]

8 minutes ago, BassTractor said:

Grating Dad? 😁

The Dreadful Gate, of course.

[Cuzzie]

@Ricky 4000 Doug and vernon were playing pedal Tetris for years and it was getting all a bit silly.

Muzz kept a calming influence IMO, I am with you on this

[Japhet]

4 hours ago, EliasMooseblaster said:

What a patronising helmet.

More power to you on a mature and sensible response; was there a palpable temptation to respond with, "yes, similarly your voice sounds OK, but your social skills need a lot of work..."?

The funny thing was that he also gave the guitarist a lecture on how to EQ his amp. The guitarist then went and fiddled about with the EQ knobs on his amp until the Sir Richard Head III bloke gave him a big thumbs up. The guitarist hadn't actually altered anything at all on the amp but Mr Sir Richard Head III told him after the gig that his sound was immeasurably better in the 2nd set. This was a few years back but I think he's now been banned from the pub for pi55ing too many people off.

[BreadBin]

8 hours ago, Cuzzie said:

@Ricky 4000 Doug and vernon were playing pedal Tetris for years and it was getting all a bit silly.

Muzz kept a calming influence IMO, I am with you on this

I miss Muzz, hugely prefer Living Colour before he left.

[4000]

9 hours ago, BreadBin said:

I miss Muzz, hugely prefer Living Colour before he left.

Saw them with Muzz at Manchester Academy, back in the day. Tremendous gig.

[martthebass]

On ‎20‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 01:25, Ricky 4000 said:

I was in disagreement with many of the posts on here, until I reflected on how I probably would like to listen to Tina Weymouth -- if I had some special "David Byrne and his guitar cancelling" headphones. 

I quite happy just to 'watch' Tina Weymouth play bass......

[karlbbb]

100% agree with this topic. I'd wager most on this board haven't heard of Brian Robinson from A Wilhelm Scream yet his bass playing is amazing in my opinion. (YouTube Line 1 YouTube Link 2 ). But how many people would be turned off by this band's style?

 

As a younger whipper-snapper (just turned 30 😐 ), I actually struggle to like a lot of the bands and music of the older generations when people general recommend the "best" bass players.

Edited November 21, 2018 by karlbbb