2nd hand market slowing??

[paul_c2]

Yes of course - its much harder to determine the price, if price information on sales is not known eg because its very rare/unusual. But the principle is the same.

[Shambo]

7 hours ago, PJ-Bassist said:

 

Incidentally within 30 mins of posting my listing I get messaged asking what is the lowest price I'll drop too

Your asking price +£100

[LukeFRC]

7 hours ago, PJ-Bassist said:

A few times in this, and other recent threads of a similar nature, sellers over pricing items comes up as a theme.

Having literally just listed a bass for sale an hour ago (that Sandberg GAS has got me good) at what I think is a fair price has made me wonder about how BCers go about figuring what a fair market value actually is for an item. 

Incidentally within 30 mins of posting my listing I get messaged asking what is the lowest price I'll drop too

Yurk my least favourite question - the “I’m too lazy to even make you a low offer” question 

[Al Krow]

On 19/11/2018 at 23:32, skankdelvar said:

Generally speaking, this topic comes up about once every 12 months or so. Among reasons previously advanced are:

* Increasing / Declining £ to $ exchange rate
* Austerity (of the 'simply crippling' variety)
* Introduction of ad placement fee by egregiously greedy forum owners Ped and Kiwi
* Advancing age of members leading to 'autumn of life' clear outs thence to market saturation
* Ubiquity of 'boring' Fender P's and J's
* Frankly ludicrous cost of bespoke luthier basses
* Unrealistically high prices and seller inflexibility
* Unrealistic and frankly disrespectful low ball offers
* Lack of patience
* Other stuff

Great summary. 

Re. autumn of life clear outs. Exactly this. 

Lots of retiring bass players with some amazing gear well beyond the reach of newbies in their teens and 20s taking up bass for the first time. 

So massive excess supply compared to relatively little "new" demand. 

Let's face being in a band has a lot of competition these days like being a whizz computer gamer. And that's only going in one direction. 

Besides which pretty much all the best rock n roll music has already been written. 

[Cuzzie]

@Al KrowNot that old rock and roll music mantra again, that’s plain nuts.

If you look, you’ll find it and good musicians too, and good music is not governed by numbers of units sold.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Cuzzie

[Al Krow]

5 hours ago, Cuzzie said:

@Al KrowNot that old rock and roll music mantra again, that’s plain nuts.

Sorry mate it's not nuts. 

Rock n roll is no longer the god it once was. You're living in dreamland if you think otherwise. 

You need to come up with something with a little more substance than your usual pithy riposte of "not that old point". (You were outvoted 9 to 1 by our fellow BCers last time you came up with that line). 

Why do you think the second market is slow then? Looking forward to your deep insights on the matter. 

Edited November 21, 2018 by Al Krow

[Stylon Pilson]

When I'm looking through the items for sale, if I see an item listed at 83% of the price that I could get a brand new one for, then I'll probably move right on.

S.P.

[krispn]

I think some of the main factors are:

- low ball offers I'm guilty of this in the past too (for shame!)

- 'buyers' not wanting to pay the asking price but maybe not really being that interested in buying it unless its a massively discounted, most likely becasue they have just been hit with GAS rather than really needing or wanting the item often in part to mega threads of gushing praise over the latest flavour of the week.

- many folk don't want to make a loss on an item (which I get to a point - who wants to lose £££ on a GAS purchase?)

I believe if both parties are serious they will be willing, within reason, to negotiate a reasonable offer in and around the asking price. Somewhere in the middle a deal can be struck.

When a seller just needs to off load gear and lists things at a 'bargain' it can have a negative effect on the value of similar items and most BC folks are continually scanning the For Sale ad and thus create a 'market value'. Conversely when a seller want's to shift an item but holds a great personal connection to it the perceived value to them of that kit may well create a dissonance in what it's worth to them and what it's actually worth in real terms.

 

 

Edited November 21, 2018 by krispn

[Pow_22]

Ive found small items like used flats etc shift quickly here.  Anything like amps, cabs or basses I have much more joy on facebook or evil bay to be honest. 

[bassjim]

I've already wasted thousands on bespoke that weren't that great in the first place. I have practically given away basses taking more than half of the original value  just to see the back of them.  I've also taken a massive hit on some that I didn't get on with at a very low price .

I have traveled half way up the country to buy an instrument only to find its not as good as I have hoped so these days I'm sceptical about anything until I have tried it.

If a Jay Dee for example  (i'm not saying these are problem instruments its just an example of IF)came up for £500.00 I'd take a punt on that as I could sell it on if needed, but if it was say £1850.00 , although probably what its worth, I'm taking a risk. If its a duff or maybe I find its just not for me, I have to hope someone out there A: has £1850.00 to spend and B: wants a Jay Dee and C: doesn't want to wait for a new one and D : If new Jay Dees cost at least a grand more so its still some sort of a bargain.

Of course if any one out there has a Jay Dee going for £500.00 let me know.  Now . In box me.

[paul_c2]

In years gone by (like, MANY years ago) the sign of a quality piece of furniture was that it was solidly constructed and lasted a hundred years or more. Brilliant - whoever made that furniture toiled for days/weeks to do so, but it wasn't brilliant for business because once it were sold, the opportunity to sell another was less and less. Nowadays we have Ikea stuff, and furniture is very much a "commodity" which is replaced regularly etc. The same is true for lots of other stuff. If you walk into an office, people are using the latest version of MS Office and 99% of the time, they're using features which were present in MS Word 2.0; but Microsoft have turned what was a capital investment (software) into a replaceable throwaway thing with an expiry date, or a lifecycle - heck you can now even subscribe to Office!!!

The point is, that a "healthy" turnover of secondhand musical instrument gear, or even new stuff, shouldn't and doesn't necessarily relate to the numbers of instruments actually played, nor the quantity (or quality) of music being produced. So a big downturn in the market isn't necessarily a bad thing except to those who seem to only achieve their musical satisfaction by selling or buying stuff.

[skankdelvar]

Perhaps another reason why the marketplace seems slow is that a proportion of sellers (usually newbs but not always) fail to maximise their chances. Even now, people still put up an expensive instrument supported only by a couple of lines of waffly boilerplate and a single photo.

So:

* Before doing anything else, check out the 'Wanted' sub-forum. There may be someone who wants what you've got. Bingo! You didn't even have to post an ad.

* When writing the ad please avoid cliches such as: 'Never thought I'd sell this' or 'Plays like buttah'. That's basically the same as 'Drives Superb, FTSWB' and frankly it sucks

* I don't care if the bass has 'never been gigged' but I suppose some people might. Describe all faults accurately and honestly to avoid post-sale unpleasantness

* If you don't want trades and you don't want low-ball offers just say so in bold text. Threats of physical violence towards time-wasters should be avoided

* Me, I don't give a toss about 'smoke-free, pet-free homes' but some people do. If your bass is uncontaminated, say so.

* Try to sound like a human being. Don't just write 'Here we have a ...' then paste specs off the manufacturer's web site. This isn't f**king Gumtree

* If you've got the means to do do, measure the action at the 12th fret in mm. Most people won't know the difference but it makes you look like you know what you're talking about

* Weigh the bass and post the result in lbs and kilos - it matters to some people and you don't need special kit. Just get on the bathroom scales, see how much you weigh, then do it again with the bass hung round your neck and note the difference. If you haven't got bathroom scales, buy some and tell the wife it's a Christmas present because she's looking a bit lardy

* The more photos the better. Please don't ask people to request more photos by email - just post them in the ad for ffs

* Don't post an ad that includes the words 'Photos coming soon'. You've just wasted my time and I won't come back because I'm a vindictive bastard like that.

* If posting lots of close-up photos include at least one shot of the whole bass, preferably in landscape rather than portrait so we don't crick our necks looking at the screen sideways

* Include a location preferably at town or city level. No one's going to burgle you based solely on the knowledge that you live in Greater Manchester

* If you want to get the best possible price, be prepared to wait a few months

* If you want a quick sale then get yourself noticed: research the going rate and offer the item at 5% less (then move more slowly on further discounts)

* Don't pad your price up to allow for future discounts. That just makes you look expensive. Offer the going rate and just be firmer about holding your price

* Don't post a price then drop it within 48 hours. It makes you look desperate. Not everyone comes here everyday so it'll take a week or two for most of the potential buyers to spot your item

* Bump as often as you can within the forum rules. Once a week doesn't cut it. If someone comments on your ad there's no rule against responding to them or starting a conversation, afaik

* If you're prepared to ship, say so. If you won't ship, say so. In bold letters. It will reduce the number of people asking if you'll ship. OTOH, people asking if you'll ship is a first stage in hooking them. Difficult one...

* If a French dude asks you three times if you'll ship overseas and won't take no for an answer and bangs on about his 'standing' you have my permission to tell him to go f**k himself

* If you're going to ship make people feel confident: offer to ship in a hard case inside a box or stipulate how you'll pack (box inside a box, packing peanuts / bubble wrap, etc)

* If you won't ship then expect the sale to take longer

* If you won't ship then offer a local (50 mile radius?) free delivery service or offer to meet halfway (within reason) for petrol at the going rate per mile

* Don't get offended if someone low balls you. Smile sweetly, flip it back on them and ask them what their best price is. The only time to tell them to f**k off is if they get rude

* If you sell the bass and the new owner flips it within a week for more than he paid you for it, don't come here complaining about it like a pissy b!tch. Find another way to take your revenge.

 

Chaps - Please feel free to add any further suggestions

 

Edited November 21, 2018 by skankdelvar

[silverfoxnik]

7 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

Perhaps another reason why the marketplace seems slow is that a proportion of sellers (usually newbs but not always) fail to maximise their chances. Even now, people still put up an expensive instrument supported only by a couple of lines of waffly boilerplate and a single photo.

So:

* Before doing anything else, check out the 'Wanted' sub-forum. There may be someone who wants what you've got. Bingo! You didn't even have to post an ad.

* When writing the ad please avoid cliches such as: 'Never thought I'd sell this' or 'Plays like buttah'. That's basically the same as 'Drives Superb, FTSWB' and frankly it sucks

* I don't care if the bass has 'never been gigged' but I suppose some people might. Describe all faults accurately and honestly to avoid post-sale unpleasantness

* If you don't want trades and you don't want low-ball offers just say so in bold text. Threats of physical violence towards time-wasters should be avoided

* Me, I don't give a toss about 'smoke-free, pet-free homes' but some people do. If your bass is uncontaminated, say so.

* Try to sound like a human being. Don't just write 'Here we have a ...' then paste specs off the manufacturer's web site. This isn't f**king Gumtree

* If you've got the means to do do, measure the action at the 12th fret in mm. Most people won't know the difference but it makes you look like you know what you're talking about

* Weigh the bass and post the result in lbs and kilos - it matters to some people and you don't need special kit. Just get on the bathroom scales, see how much you weigh, then do it again with the bass hung round your neck and note the difference. If you haven't got bathroom scales, buy some and tell the wife it's a Christmas present because she's looking a bit lardy

* The more photos the better. Please don't ask people to request more photos by email - just post them in the ad for ffs

* Don't post an ad that includes the words 'Photos coming soon'. You've just wasted my time and I won't come back because I'm a vindictive bastard like that.

* If posting lots of close-up photos include at least one shot of the whole bass, preferably in landscape rather than portrait so we don't crick our necks looking at the screen sideways

* Include a location preferably at town or city level. No one's going to burgle you based solely on the knowledge that you live in Manchester

* If you want to get the best possible price, be prepared to wait a few months

* If you want a quick sale then get yourself noticed: research the going rate and offer the item at 5% less (then move more slowly on further discounts)

* Don't pad your price up to allow for future discounts. That just makes you look expensive. Offer the going rate and just be firmer about holding your price

* Don't post a price then drop it within 48 hours. It makes you look desperate. Not everyone comes here everyday so it'll take a week or two for most of the potential buyers to spot your item

* Bump as often as you can within the forum rules. Once a week doesn't cut it. If someone comments on your ad there's no rule against responding to them or starting a conversation, afaik

* If you're prepared to ship, say so. If you won't ship, say so. In bold letters. It will reduce the number of people asking if you'll ship. OTOH, people asking if you'll ship is a first stage in hooking them. Difficult one...

* If a French dude asks you three times if you'll ship overseas and won't take no for an answer and bangs on about his 'standing' you have my permission to tell him to go f**k himself

* If you're going to ship make people feel confident: offer to ship in a hard case inside a box or stipulate how you'll pack (box inside a box, packing peanuts / bubble wrap, etc)

* If you won't ship then expect the sale to take longer

* If you won't ship then offer a local (50 mile radius?) free delivery service or offer to meet halfway (within reason) for petrol at the going rate per mile

* Don't get offended if someone low balls you. Smile sweetly, flip it back on them and ask them what their best price is. The only time to tell them to f**k off is if they get rude

* If you sell the bass and the new owner flips it within a week for more than he paid you for it, don't come here complaining about it like a pissy b!tch. Find another way to take your revenge.

 

Chaps - Please feel free to add any further suggestions

 

I'd add to all that above by saying that the relatively new facility that we have on this site that allows you to bump your advert without saying anything even vaguely meaningful, makes it look like you don't really care enough to be bothered whether your item sells or not. I'm sure that's not the case, but that's how it seems to me at least.

The old site forced you to have to add some content to your for sale thread to bump it up the list and personally, I think that system worked far better.

Going back to the original question in this post, I think the for sale market on here has slowed considerably for many of the reasons already mentioned.

At the moment, I think it's particularly bad and it is such a shame to see some fantastic gear - basses especially - just sitting there for months and months unsold..

Just my 2p worth of course...

 

[LukeFRC]

17 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

If you've got the means to do do, measure the action at the 12th fret in mm. Most people won't know the difference but it makes you look like you know what you're talking about

Is this valuable? All my basses have adjustable bridges and truss rods that mean I can set this how I like.

[Bridgehouse]

16 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

Perhaps another reason why the marketplace seems slow is that a proportion of sellers (usually newbs but not always) fail to maximise their chances. Even now, people still put up an expensive instrument supported only by a couple of lines of waffly boilerplate and a single photo.

So:

* Before doing anything else, check out the 'Wanted' sub-forum. There may be someone who wants what you've got. Bingo! You didn't even have to post an ad.

* When writing the ad please avoid cliches such as: 'Never thought I'd sell this' or 'Plays like buttah'. That's basically the same as 'Drives Superb, FTSWB' and frankly it sucks

* I don't care if the bass has 'never been gigged' but I suppose some people might. Describe all faults accurately and honestly to avoid post-sale unpleasantness

* If you don't want trades and you don't want low-ball offers just say so in bold text. Threats of physical violence towards time-wasters should be avoided

* Me, I don't give a toss about 'smoke-free, pet-free homes' but some people do. If your bass is uncontaminated, say so.

* Try to sound like a human being. Don't just write 'Here we have a ...' then paste specs off the manufacturer's web site. This isn't f**king Gumtree

* If you've got the means to do do, measure the action at the 12th fret in mm. Most people won't know the difference but it makes you look like you know what you're talking about

* Weigh the bass and post the result in lbs and kilos - it matters to some people and you don't need special kit. Just get on the bathroom scales, see how much you weigh, then do it again with the bass hung round your neck and note the difference. If you haven't got bathroom scales, buy some and tell the wife it's a Christmas present because she's looking a bit lardy

* The more photos the better. Please don't ask people to request more photos by email - just post them in the ad for ffs

* Don't post an ad that includes the words 'Photos coming soon'. You've just wasted my time and I won't come back because I'm a vindictive bastard like that.

* If posting lots of close-up photos include at least one shot of the whole bass, preferably in landscape rather than portrait so we don't crick our necks looking at the screen sideways

* Include a location preferably at town or city level. No one's going to burgle you based solely on the knowledge that you live in Greater Manchester

* If you want to get the best possible price, be prepared to wait a few months

* If you want a quick sale then get yourself noticed: research the going rate and offer the item at 5% less (then move more slowly on further discounts)

* Don't pad your price up to allow for future discounts. That just makes you look expensive. Offer the going rate and just be firmer about holding your price

* Don't post a price then drop it within 48 hours. It makes you look desperate. Not everyone comes here everyday so it'll take a week or two for most of the potential buyers to spot your item

* Bump as often as you can within the forum rules. Once a week doesn't cut it. If someone comments on your ad there's no rule against responding to them or starting a conversation, afaik

* If you're prepared to ship, say so. If you won't ship, say so. In bold letters. It will reduce the number of people asking if you'll ship. OTOH, people asking if you'll ship is a first stage in hooking them. Difficult one...

* If a French dude asks you three times if you'll ship overseas and won't take no for an answer and bangs on about his 'standing' you have my permission to tell him to go f**k himself

* If you're going to ship make people feel confident: offer to ship in a hard case inside a box or stipulate how you'll pack (box inside a box, packing peanuts / bubble wrap, etc)

* If you won't ship then expect the sale to take longer

* If you won't ship then offer a local (50 mile radius?) free delivery service or offer to meet halfway (within reason) for petrol at the going rate per mile

* Don't get offended if someone low balls you. Smile sweetly, flip it back on them and ask them what their best price is. The only time to tell them to f**k off is if they get rude

* If you sell the bass and the new owner flips it within a week for more than he paid you for it, don't come here complaining about it like a pissy b!tch. Find another way to take your revenge.

 

Chaps - Please feel free to add any further suggestions

 

 

For Sale - A particularly grim copy bass which frankly I can't wait to get rid of. £1

I've checked the wanted ads - nobody is going to want this sucker.

From the minute I got this I knew I'd end up selling it - it plays like gristle. 

Never been gigged. No way I'd risk this in public

Trades gracefully accepted - even for a pack of old used Ernie Ball flats

I have dogs and smoke like a chimney. I let the dogs sleep on it and chain smoke when playing - it's the only thing that numbs the pain

I'd link to my gumtree ad, but it makes me look like it's a scam.

Action at 12th fret - about 1' 5"

Weight - more than me, but less than the missus.

No photos coming soon - it's hideous enough in the flesh without a permanent record 

I'm based just north of Peterborough. I'll wait for years if necessary to get rid of this. It's likely to be discounted tomorrow and every five minutes subsequently until I end up paying you.

I'll ship this in a brown paper bag. It'll only improve it. I'm prepared to travel about 3 miles from home, on my pushbike, dragging it behind on a rope. Feel free to lowball me. I quite like it - it's a chance to feel someone actually wants to talk to me. 

Is this what you meant @skankdelvar?

[skankdelvar]

9 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

Is this valuable? All my basses have adjustable bridges and truss rods that mean I can set this how I like.

I think it's always nice to know whether one can drive a bus under the strings or not 

Anyway, I'm not saying the suggestion should be written in stone or that any measurements are a definitive indicator of a bass's condition / value. If nothing else, it might imply that the seller is interested in that sort of thing, which might provide a small degree of reassurance.. 

Edited November 21, 2018 by skankdelvar

[skankdelvar]

2 minutes ago, Bridgehouse said:

Is this what you meant @skankdelvar?

Nailed it, Bridge, nailed it.

(If there was a double 'like' emoticon you'd have got it).

[Bridgehouse]

3 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

Nailed it, Bridge, nailed it.

(If there was a double 'like' emoticon you'd have got it).

[Beedster]

Interesting that stuff often sells quicker and for a better price on eBay than is the case on BC, and ironically on occasion even to people who are BC members?

Frankly I hate selling on eBay, but it's quicker and less hassle than BC; there's no endless PMs from folks who are definitely going to buy and will send PayPal payment later that day but then disappear, no silly/desultory cash offers (or at least they can be rejected automatically), no PX offers for gear that has been sitting in the FS forums for years, and no 'can you hold it for me until my ..... sells. That the final price on eBay is often quite high makes up for the commission, most of the time. More importantly, I'm finding I'm dealing with some really nice folks on eBay these days. 

And whilst I really hate to say it, I'm also getting a bit disillusioned buying on BC; I've been less than happy with the description and/or condition of about 50% of the stuff I've bought here recently, and whilst eBay gives you easy access to a claims process, BC doesn't. I just feel selling here has got a bit lazy, almost as if it relies on a community feel-good factor that is perhaps being taken for granted and/or abused. I'm seriously considering not using PayPal F&F option any more so that I can simply claim back money without hassle. I've bought three items in the last 10 days, and having got home and unpacked them this evening, two of them are going back, in both cases because the seller forgot to mention something pretty important in the description. Frankly, this really f***ks me off, and contrast with my recent experience on eBay   

So, IMO, if we want this market place to pick up, sellers have to up their game a bit to be honest, eBay sales show there's plenty of money changing hands for bass gear elsewhere. 

 

Edited November 21, 2018 by Beedster

[Al Krow]

Maybe it's as simple as folk are content with, no let's go stronger - very happy with, what they've got. 

After all, it's not about what you have, but what use you put it to, right? 

Zen and the art of playing bass. 

[AndyTravis]

I’ve had mixed results on all formats - and overall, Basschat has been good for sales and purchases.

Things are taking longer to shift, I suppose it depends how desperately you want rid.

I know I’ve not got huge amounts of spare cash at the moment, I should stop having kids...

[PatrickJ]

36 minutes ago, AndyTravis said:

I’ve had mixed results on all formats - and overall, Basschat has been good for sales and purchases.

Things are taking longer to shift, I suppose it depends how desperately you want rid.

I know I’ve not got huge amounts of spare cash at the moment, I should stop having kids...

Perhaps you could try selling a kid on the BC market place (under the sell anything category)- or trade one for a new bass.

[Al Krow]

3 minutes ago, PJ-Bassist said:

Perhaps you could try selling a kid on the BC market place (under the sell anything category)- or trade one for a new bass.

I'm sure I read a EU directive somewhere that makes selling kids tricky... roll on the 29th March I say 😁

[AndyTravis]

6 minutes ago, PJ-Bassist said:

Perhaps you could try selling a kid on the BC market place (under the sell anything category)- or trade one for a new bass.

The depreciation isn’t worth the hit...they’ve cost me a lot of coin and I don’t reckon I’ll get it back...

Edited November 21, 2018 by AndyTravis

[PatrickJ]

5 minutes ago, AndyTravis said:

The depreciation isn’t worth the hit...they’ve cost me a lot of coin and I don’t reckon I’ll get it back...

Ah, another member of the 4x kid club!