Al Krow Posted November 13, 2020 Author Share Posted November 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, PatrickJ said: I've been thinking about a SA C4 for a while now. Maybe I'll ask father christmas You'd be better off asking Mrs Santa in my experience 😁 Be warned it's a whole new rabbit hole of PC editing - haha! - and you should really budget another £100 for a midi controller with usb port to scroll through your patches. The BC guru on everything C4 is @Quatschmacher and he's actually well known to / recognised by the SA audio team for his expertise. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickJ Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 (edited) Back to the Helix - I finally got round to doing the latest 2.92 update. The new Billy Sheehan Bass compression module looks good - I just swapped out the LA comp on one of my virtual boards for it but I couldn't see the new gain reduction meters - are they not available on the HX FX? Any other items to note on the latest update for us bassists? Edited November 13, 2020 by PatrickJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 7 hours ago, PatrickJ said: Back to the Helix - I finally got round to doing the latest 2.92 update. The new Billy Sheehan Bass compression module looks good - I just swapped out the LA comp on one of my virtual boards for it but I couldn't see the new gain reduction meters - are they not available on the HX FX? Any other items to note on the latest update for us bassists? No gain reduction meters on both HX ... the default settings are a bit gain boosting too ... but it’s good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 @PatrickJ or indeed anybody else, are your synth patches up on custom tone? I'm another one who's struggling with synth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickJ Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Jack said: @PatrickJ or indeed anybody else, are your synth patches up on custom tone? I'm another one who's struggling with synth. No, I don't know about custom tone. I will need to check it out. I completely re organised the virtual board yesterday and updated the synth patches - re recorded and replaced the mp3s in the previous post. I think I prefer these a little better. The other thing I'm really struggling with is to get a good envelope filter effect on bass, especially with the Mutant Filter - anyone got any patch settings they've found have worked nicely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted November 14, 2020 Author Share Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Jack said: @PatrickJ or indeed anybody else, are your synth patches up on custom tone? I'm another one who's struggling with synth. 4 hours ago, PatrickJ said: No, I don't know about custom tone. I will need to check it out. I completely re organised the virtual board yesterday and updated the synth patches - re recorded and replaced the mp3s in the previous post. I think I prefer these a little better. The other thing I'm really struggling with is to get a good envelope filter effect on bass, especially with the Mutant Filter - anyone got any patch settings they've found have worked nicely? I seem to recall that there was mention of the "A filter" being half decent on Helix, but I've not managed to find where this was discussed on this thread (I should really have a go at doing an index for the thread to make it more user friendly...) Helix and Synth As I touched a few posts back, unfortunately Helix doesn't have a synth engine under its bonnet (unlike the Mooer GE300 multi-fx or Boss SY-1000) and I personally didn't find the Dr Tonelab synth patches that good. The synth fanboys on this forum tend, from what I've seen, to go for a quality dedicated synth pedal e.g. Panda FI, Source Audio C4 or if you don't want to PC edit another pedal in addition to your Helix, then the Boss SY-1. Old fashioned approach to getting a synth effect = octave + dirt + filter in a chain. Worth trying that as a starting point and having a go at creating a patch (I suspect other folk have maybe already gone down this route and can share). Here was my stab at that, which seemed to be well received by a few BC'ers who gave it a spin: Synth Patch.pdf Edited November 14, 2020 by Al Krow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GisserD Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 24 minutes ago, Al Krow said: As I touched a few posts back, unfortunately Helix doesn't have synth engine under its bonnet Erm... yes it does. The legacy effects section has many options! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted November 14, 2020 Author Share Posted November 14, 2020 28 minutes ago, GisserD said: Erm... yes it does. The legacy effects section has many options! Are you saying it generates sine, square, saw tooth waves in the way that an FI or C4 does and is not merely a synth emulator? If so, that's definitely news to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickJ Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 2 hours ago, Al Krow said: I seem to recall that there was mention of the "A filter" being half decent on Helix, but I've not managed to find where this was discussed on this thread (I should really have a go at doing an index for the thread to make it more user friendly...) Synth Patch.pdf 308.38 kB · 0 downloads Is this the thread you're referring too - found it after a bit of google-fu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GisserD Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Al Krow said: Are you saying it generates sine, square, saw tooth waves in the way that an FI or C4 does and is not merely a synth emulator? If so, that's definitely news to me! No thats not what I'm saying. But some people might have took your comment literally to think there are no synth sounds in the helix. When there are! If You were specifically referring to synth "engine" then i don't think the Boss SY1 can be grouped together with the Future impact and the C4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted November 14, 2020 Author Share Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, GisserD said: No thats not what I'm saying. But some people might have took your comment literally to think there are no synth sounds in the helix. When there are! If You were specifically referring to synth "engine" then i don't think the Boss SY1 can be grouped together with the Future impact and the C4. Phew! Good we are completely on the same page then. Yes agreed - for the avoidance of doubt the SY-1 is a synth emulator as are also Helix, Zoom and EHX pedals (e.g. the EHX Synth 9) and does not have a proper internal "synth engine" i.e. a synth waveform generator in the way that the C4, FI or Mooer GE300 and Boss SY-1000 do. I've mentioned that a fair few times about the SY-1 on other threads, but certainly worth clarifying if you thought there was a risk of confusion. The SY-1 does have superb tracking and not a bad set of polyphonic synth sounds; but then you'd hope that to be the case if you're forking out £175 for a dedicated pedal! Hence my mentioning it as one of the alternatives to Helix that folk (including me!) have gone for who are not satisfied with what Helix can deliver on the synth front. 18 hours ago, PatrickJ said: Is this the thread you're referring too - found it after a bit of google-fu? Yes, thanks, Patrick - that's the one! Hopefully will give you a few ideas for half decent filter patch creation. Edited November 15, 2020 by Al Krow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollin Thunder Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 New update version 3.0 and nothing for bass, very poor, was hoping for a couple of amps and bass specific distortions, may consider switching my allegiance to the new boss core or DG Neural DSP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CameronJ Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 17 minutes ago, Rollin Thunder said: New update version 3.0 and nothing for bass, very poor, was hoping for a couple of amps and bass specific distortions, may consider switching my allegiance to the new boss core or DG Neural DSP. Good luck with the bass specific amps/effects on the Boss it has almost nothing for us low-enders. Helix already smokes it in that department, even without any new models in this update! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollin Thunder Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 33 minutes ago, CameronJ said: Good luck with the bass specific amps/effects on the Boss it has almost nothing for us low-enders. Helix already smokes it in that department, even without any new models in this update! I did say consider 😉 Ive lived the Stomp since i have had it, but this update is a poor showing for the Bass to literally give us nothing, and its ruined and keeps crashing HX edit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollin Thunder Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, CameronJ said: Good luck with the bass specific amps/effects on the Boss it has almost nothing for us low-enders. Helix already smokes it in that department, even without any new models in this update! The new Muff is really really nice though using split path its as good as the bass big muff pedal. Edited November 19, 2020 by Rollin Thunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CameronJ Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Well Line 6 have been good to us thus far, and a few of the Yamaha/L6 management and dev team are bassists so I’m sure there will be more for us at some point in the future. Meanwhile, love this section in the changelog for 3.0: 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted November 19, 2020 Author Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) Polyphonic pitch models sounds good! And not surprised they take up a lot of DSP - seems to be one of the tougher asks for a multi fx to do well. Edited November 19, 2020 by Al Krow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugsonic Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 I think the 8 blocks is great considering im using up two blocks for my C4 and FI. Doubt the effect loop blocks use much DSP so more free for fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted November 20, 2020 Author Share Posted November 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Hugsonic said: I think the 8 blocks is great considering in using up two blocks for my C4 and FI. Doubt the effect loop blocks use much DSP so more free for fun. Impressed you have both a C4 and FI!! 8 blocks is a great idea - and really good to know that Line 6 are both hearing and open to meeting the needs of their customers. Comments from TBers suggest that the amp and cab sims are particularly DSP heavy on Helix and I guess that this has been a key reason for the Stomp having 3 fewer blocks available than HX Effects, which lacks the amp and cab sims, and worries about comments about not being able to make use of all the available blocks. Well they've clearly sought to CTA on that score with their comments which Cam quoted for us! They just need to stop the unnecessary embargo on amp and cab sims on the HX Effects now, given that the Stomp and HX Effects have exactly the same processors and DSP capability! 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 27 minutes ago, Al Krow said: They just need to stop the unnecessary embargo on amp and cab sims on the HX Effects now, given that the Stomp and HX Effects have exactly the same processors and DSP capability! 😁 wouldn't say it is an embargo, its just that the HX Effects is for effects, like it says on the tin. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted November 20, 2020 Author Share Posted November 20, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Woodinblack said: wouldn't say it is an embargo, its just that the HX Effects is for effects, like it says on the tin. And the Stomp is purely to stomp on right? 😁 Since when was an amp and cab sim (which HX Effects doesn't have) not an "effect" any more than a BDDI sim or a compressor sim is not an "effect" (which the HX Effects does have)? It's a commercial "embargo" in the sense that they are trying to carve out a separate market niche for each. I totally understand that. Edited November 20, 2020 by Al Krow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispn Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 Embargo 😀 I think it’s called a SKU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispn Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 (edited) It’s also worth noting that selecting an amp/cab pairing rather than a separate amp and cab is a little less taxing on DSP so if that were a consideration for building sounds on the Stomp. *I was struggling to load 3.0 but realised that I was still using HX Edit. It turns out you have to close all applications which might be using the Stomp before being able to update the firmware. Edited November 23, 2020 by krispn OS not updated yet as I’d imagine that might come up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Al Krow said: They just need to stop the unnecessary embargo on amp and cab sims on the HX Effects now, given that the Stomp and HX Effects have exactly the same processors and DSP capability! 😁 Where did you hear that? EDIT: I meant do you have a link. I’d be interested to see how close they are. Edited November 20, 2020 by dave_bass5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 5 hours ago, Al Krow said: And the Stomp is purely to stomp on right? 😁 Since when was an amp and cab sim (which HX Effects doesn't have) not an "effect" any more than a BDDI sim or a compressor sim is not an "effect" (which the HX Effects does have)? It's a commercial "embargo" in the sense that they are trying to carve out a separate market niche for each. I totally understand that. I’ve got this weird sense of déjà vue - you sure you haven’t meantioned something similar a few time before in this thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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