Helix Floor/LT/HX/Stomp/PodGo owners' Club - Tips, Ideas & Patches

[GisserD]

41 minutes ago, CameronJ said:

@GisserD I’m using your “Amp Tone’z” Stomp patch on quite a few songs on my current Panto gig in Ipswich. It’s proving to work quite nicely in a mix!

Special mention goes to the Yamaha DXR12s supplied to us by the sound crew. They sound great! My monitor comfortably fills the whole stage (and the whole rehearsal building!) with full fat bass. 

Love that your using my patch mate. Chuffed actually!

[CameronJ]

2 minutes ago, GisserD said:

Love that your using my patch mate. Chuffed actually!

It’s perfect for when I need more grind/bite and high mid push compared to my usual default clean patch. The sound guy is pleased as it does all of the above whilst retaining the low end nicely - the joy of crossed over highs and compressed lows on Helix!

So far I’m using the patch on 9 to 5 (Dolly Parton), Papa Don’t Preach (Madonna), I’ll Be There For You (Rembrandts/Friends theme), Get Ready (Temptations), and there are a few numbers we haven’t started working on yet so there could well be one or two more 

[dave_bass5]

Just got back from my first rehearsal with the FX. It was so much easier to use than the Stomp,, although I still kept hitting two switches at the sam time. I’ll get used to it though. Definitely the right purchase. 

Edited November 13, 2019 by dave_bass5

[dave_bass5]

Gents, a question about HPF and the Helix stuff. I noticed there are two (not including the Global one) EQ effects that seem to do this. Does anyone have a preference or know of a reason to use one over the other? Just looking to tame a stage so not bothered about the LPF end.

[41Hz]

On 12/11/2019 at 11:45, dave_bass5 said:

Well i have the BDDI sim, plus i dont need or want to emulate the SH1. Having recently brought a new amp i cant see the point of ruining an Amp sim as well, other than as an EQ.

As Jack says, there is more then enough EQ options and Pre amps in the FX to cover anything ill need, and as my fav tone is the BDDI im covered for now. I do fancy giving the Ampeg Screamer a go tonight though.

Out of interest, what settings do you use for the BDDI, always interested to try other peoples settings!

[41Hz]

26 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Gents, a question about HPF and the Helix stuff. I noticed there are two (not including the Global one) EQ effects that seem to do this. Does anyone have a preference or know of a reason to use one over the other? Just looking to tame a stage so not bothered about the LPF end.

Are you talking about the low/high cut and low/high shelf - I don’t know what the difference is. Do line 6 publish a detailed explanation for each effect?

I’ve never thought to use a HPF does it make a noticeable difference? I guess you only notice at band volumes. I will try them at rehearsal on Friday.

Edited November 13, 2019 by 41Hz

[Al Krow]

22 minutes ago, 41Hz said:

I’ve never thought to use a HPF does it make a noticeable difference? 

An HPF does two key things:

i)  tightens up the low end. General view seems to be that anything below around 50Hz adds more to boominess than to a meaty low end, and that the focus should be on the first harmonics and above (for low B that is 62Hz+, for the low E string that's 82Hz+); although IMO there's an argument for leaving in the fundamental frequencies of the low B string (31Hz) and your very own low E string (41Hz) avatar!

ii) used to entirely cut the subsonic crud (<20 Hz) so that your speakers are not wasting energy on very low frequency but high energy waves that no one can actually hear; and can work more efficiently to deliver the frequencies you can hear.

i) impacts the bass sound; ii) should not.

Here's the SFX Thumpinator in action, which is set to cut everything below 28Hz i.e. delivering ii) and showing how much less cab displacement there is with an HPF engaged. Virtually zero difference in tone.

 

Edited November 13, 2019 by Al Krow

[dave_bass5]

21 minutes ago, 41Hz said:

Are you talking about the low/high cut and low/high shelf - I don’t know what the difference is. Do line 6 publish a detailed explanation for each effect?

I’ve never thought to use a HPF does it make a noticeable difference? I guess you only notice at band volumes. I will try them at rehearsal on Friday.

Yes, im talking about those two. I like to keep a HPF in the chain to keep the low end a bit clearer if the room is boomy. We rehearse in a room that has a hollow stage area so its handy, and most, if not all of our gigs are on hollow stages. With the Stomp you have it as part of the Global EQ, but with the FX you have to add a block. Both seem to do the trick but im wondering why there are two.Very little info on the Line 6 sims around.

Ill let you know about the BDDI later, but in general i keep the EQ part flat, Drive on 6 and adjust the Blend to suit. Normally between 4 and 6.

 

[Al Krow]

PS in terms of terminology, in case anyone's confused:

low cut (i.e. cutting the low frequencies) is delivered by a HPF (i.e. a high pass filter which allows the high frequencies to pass)

high cut = LPF

 

Edited November 13, 2019 by Al Krow

[41Hz]

10 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

An HPF does two key things:

i)  tightens up the low end. General view seems to be that anything below around 50Hz adds more to boominess than to a meaty low end, and that the focus should be on the first harmonics and above (for low B that is 62Hz+, for the low E string that's 82Hz+); although IMO there's an argument for leaving in the fundamental frequencies of the low B string (31Hz) and your very own low E string (41Hz) avatar!

ii) used to entirely cut the subsonic crud (<20 Hz) so that your speakers are not wasting energy on very low frequency but high energy waves that no one can actually hear; and can work more efficiently to deliver the frequencies you can hear.

i) impacts the bass sound; ii) should not.

Here's the SFX Thumpinator in action, which is set to cut everything below 28Hz i.e. delivering ii) and showing how much less cab displacement there is with an HPF engaged. Virtually zero difference in tone.

 

Wow, that is a pretty dramatic difference! Definitely going to try playing with this at the next rehearsal

[dave_bass5]

2 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

PS in terms of terminology, in case anyone's confused:

low cut (i.e. cutting the low frequencies) is delivered by a HPF (i.e. a high pass filter i.e. which allows the high frequencies to pass)

high cut = LPF

 

Good point.

Ill als add that the good thing about the Helix stuff compared to our Microthumpinator is the ability to raise the freq the cut off starts at. Although its generals used to clean up the subsonic freq its handy being able to raise it higher to help with boom and a muddy room.

[dave_bass5]

Just now, 41Hz said:

Wow, that is a pretty dramatic difference! Definitely going to try playing with this at the next rehearsal

Dont expect too much. That is a very extreme demo.

[Al Krow]

1 minute ago, dave_bass5 said:

Good point.

Ill als add that the good thing about the Helix stuff compared to our Microthumpinator is the ability to raise the freq the cut off starts at. Although its generals used to clean up the subsonic freq its handy being able to raise it higher to help with boom and a muddy room.

Yup, the Thumpinator is an "always on" pedal focused on delivering just (ii). 

HPFs with adjustable 'engage' frequencies can do (i) and (ii).

[Woodinblack]

33 minutes ago, 41Hz said:

Are you talking about the low/high cut and low/high shelf - I don’t know what the difference is.

a shelf is like a treble or bass control, and is flat like a shelf after a certain point. a cut is a continuous slope after a certain point.

So taking a low filter  at 200 Hz for instance

12dB / Octave low cut:  0db @ 200Hz, -12dB @ 100hz, -24dB @ 50hz, -36db @ 25Hz etc.

12dB low shelf: 0dB @ 200Hz, -12dB @ 100Hz, -12dB @ 50, -12dB @ 25Hz etc.

[41Hz]

1 minute ago, dave_bass5 said:

Dont expect too much. That is a very extreme demo.

I was using a different bass last week and a few times the bottom E really seemed to over power the speaker and come out pretty weak and flabby, wondering if this would help.

[Al Krow]

8 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Dont expect too much. That is a very extreme demo.

Disagree on this one, Dave. You can literally feel the difference standing next to your cab from the difference of the pressure of the air  flow on your legs with an HPF engaged or not. 

The impact depends on the steepness of the cut, most variable HPFs only deliver - 12dB / octave. A steeper -24dB / octave will be more effective and I think the Thumpinator delivers that or close (although Max at SFX has decided it's a trade secret!). 

Edited November 13, 2019 by Al Krow

[41Hz]

4 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

a shelf is like a treble or bass control, and is flat like a shelf after a certain point. a cut is a continuous slope after a certain point.

So taking a low filter  at 200 Hz for instance

12dB / Octave low cut:  0db @ 200Hz, -12dB @ 100hz, -24dB @ 50hz, -36db @ 25Hz etc.

12dB low shelf: 0dB @ 200Hz, -12dB @ 100Hz, -12dB @ 50, -12dB @ 25Hz etc.

Interesting point. How steep are roll offs on the Helix? With an analogue HPF if you set at 41Hz you’d probably still be attenuating the signal a bit at 50Hz. 

[Al Krow]

9 minutes ago, 41Hz said:

Interesting point. How steep are roll offs on the Helix? With an analogue HPF if you set at 41Hz you’d probably still be attenuating the signal a bit at 50Hz. 

I think -12dB / octave (but I could be wrong on that). 

If you set at 41Hz you would only be attenuating below 41 Hz and will have cut by 12dB anything at 20Hz ie an octave below. 

A 41Hz cut should not be touching 50Hz.

If you want a decent cut at 50 Hz, maybe set the HPF to cut at 80Hz, certainly no lower than 60 Hz. 

Edited November 13, 2019 by Al Krow

[stoo]

I read somewhere that in certain cases that HPFs can cause issues where the reduction in cone travel means the heat generated is concentrated around one part of the voice coil and could potentially cause damage if it overheats.

Not sure how hard you need to be pushing things for this to be a realistic cause for concern, but probably worth looking into if you're putting a sizeable amount of power through your cabs....?

[Al Krow]

I don't entirely follow that stoo. The HPF will be cutting the amount of low f waves being produced by the cab. The lower resultant speaker cone displacement gives rise to less kinetic energy and friction ie less heat. 

But I could be missing something fundamental / basic here. 

@Phil Starr any thoughts? 

[Jack]

2 hours ago, 41Hz said:

Are you talking about the low/high cut and low/high shelf - I don’t know what the difference is. Do line 6 publish a detailed explanation for each effect?

Here's a high shelf (in this case boosting, but a cut works the same) and two high pass filters. The shelf affects everything below the cutoff equally whereas the hpf go from the cutoff to infinity. As a very rough rule, you'll use shelves for tone changes and hpf/lpf to remove unwanted crud. For instance, I high pass the snare drum, not because I don't like the way the snare drum sounds, but because I don't want to hear the kick drum through the snare drum microphone.

 

 

The global high pass filter on the helix is really useful, you can crank it up for every patch on a boomy stage or set it back to 30Hz on a solid stage and you don't have to mess with the eq of every patch.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Jack

[dave_bass5]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

Disagree on this one, Dave. You can literally feel the difference standing next to your cab from the difference of the pressure of the air  flow on your legs with an HPF engaged or not. 

The impact depends on the steepness of the cut, most variable HPFs only deliver - 12dB / octave. A steeper -24dB / octave will be more effective and I think the Thumpinator delivers that or close (although Max at SFX has decided it's a trade secret!). 

Not in my experience but maybe we are talking about different things. . 

[stoo]

56 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I don't entirely follow that stoo. The HPF will be cutting the amount of low f waves being produced by the cab. The lower resultant speaker cone displacement gives rise to less kinetic energy and friction ie less heat. 

But I could be missing something fundamental / basic here. 

@Phil Starr any thoughts? 

It's entirely possible I've misremembered, or missed some crucial detail somewhere... I've done a bit of googling and can't seem to find it again, so presumably it's not a massive issue if it's not on every HPF FAQ on the internet!

 

[jrixn1]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

If you set at 41Hz you would only be attenuating below 41 Hz and will have cut by 12dB anything at 20Hz ie an octave below. 

A 41Hz cut should not be touching 50Hz.

I believe the cut-off frequency (in this case, 41Hz) does not indicate that the curve starts at 41Hz.  Instead, it indicates the point where 3dB of attenuation is achieved.

For example, borrowing the diagram from a few posts up, the green curve shows HPF with cut-off of approx 100Hz, not 400Hz.

So it's possible a 41Hz HPF might attenuate a little at 50Hz.

[mr zed]

48 minutes ago, stoo said:

It's entirely possible I've misremembered, or missed some crucial detail somewhere... I've done a bit of googling and can't seem to find it again, so presumably it's not a massive issue if it's not on every HPF FAQ on the internet!

 

PA tops are designed to go full range or crossover (removing the low frequencies) when using a sub so I can’t see it being an issue.