Helix Floor/LT/HX/Stomp/PodGo owners' Club - Tips, Ideas & Patches

[Al Krow]

Just now, dave_bass5 said:

And all in a live band context, none of that at home/isolation stuff from me, which is important to me as thats how i would use them. 

Yeah - but IMO it's totally elitist to regard "band use" as being somehow superior to "home use". It's just a different use. There are plenty of bassists who are not in bands and who get a ton of pleasure from using their gear at home.

[dave_bass5]

5 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Yeah - but IMO it's totally elitist to regard "band use" as being somehow superior to "home use". It's just a different use. There are plenty of bassists who are not in bands and who get a ton of pleasure from using their gear at home.

Nothing elitist  the about it at all. Where do you get that from? I think its blinkered to think the two are the same. 

Surely if you are going to use it with a band, with a band is the best test? Obviously you can use it at home but if it doesn't work with the band then you look for something else. IME everything sounds great at home, and you hear everything clearly. 

Not sure what where you are going with this as i said in my last post that this was important to me. I never said it as a blanket statement to cover everyone, and anyone that plays in a band will know how the sound gets changed from playing at low bedroom levels etc. 

[dave_bass5]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

He's still got my old Yamaha BB 425 which I want to buy back off him (as do several others apparently!) 😁

Oh yeah, ive not given up playing bass, I’m just not doing it at the moment, so i need to hang on to the best basses i have 😁

[Cuzzie]

10 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Nothing elitist  the about it at all. Where do you get that from? I think its blinkered to think the two are the same. 

Surely if you are going to use it with a band, with a band is the best test? Obviously you can use it at home but if it doesn't work with the band then you look for something else. IME everything sounds great at home, and you hear everything clearly. 

Not sure what where you are going with this as i said in my last post that this was important to me. I never said it as a blanket statement to cover everyone, and anyone that plays in a band will know how the sound gets changed from playing at low bedroom levels etc. 

I get what you are saying about this - it’s about using it in context - essentially even if recording at home and messing around being creative pedals are unlikely to be used in isolation, there will be other instruments used to create a tune/soundscape of some description-that I think is what you are talking about

[dave_bass5]

11 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

I get what you are saying about this - it’s about using it in context - essentially even if recording at home and messing around being creative pedals are unlikely to be used in isolation, there will be other instruments used to create a tune/soundscape of some description-that I think is what you are talking about

Yes, exactly this. Other instruments (and drummers) will change how it sounds in a mix, freq’s’ can clash etc, and its this that will matter to me when I’m gigging or rehearsing. 

Obviously if you hate something at home there will be a good chance its just not right for you, but over the years ive loved something at home, only to find it doesnt work live because something gets lost or boosted etc. Tone sucking seems to be a big one for me.  A lot of those drives ive had sounded good at home in the bedroom or at work though a small rig, but with the band they were noticeably lacking in low end or punch. 

I totally get that some dont gig and i have no problem with that, but for me i have to know how it sounds in my environment, and i think that’s helpful for others that do play in bands and not just sit at home. 

 

Edited November 21, 2020 by dave_bass5

[krispn]

I think there comes a point where we’ve all realised that what sounds good in the bedroom/headphones can be woefully lacking in a live context. Same goes for being happy with gear as it is but then enhancing it with a little ‘spice’! Then there’s trying to cop specific tones to nail a certain song or part. 7Nation Army always sounds better with a decent fuzz where as Dancing In The Moonlight doesn’t suffer if you don’t have a soft phaser washing over it IMO.

Elitist is an interesting concept in relation to gear especially if it’s being used in the context of if you think it should be gigged or not rather than say the price/value of it...

Edited November 21, 2020 by krispn

[dave_bass5]

Well i was only referring to how i want to evaluate things. Not sure how that’s elitist, but hey ho. 

Anyway, apologies for derailing the thread. I have no real reason to be here anyway 😁

Edited November 21, 2020 by dave_bass5

[Cuzzie]

1 minute ago, dave_bass5 said:

Anyway, apologies for derailing the thread. I have no real reason to be here anyway 😁

Away with you and your outlandish contextual theories

[Cuzzie]

3 minutes ago, krispn said:

I think there comes a point where we’ve all realised that what sounds good in the bedroom/headphones can be woefully lacking in a live context. Same goes for being happy with gear as it is but then enhancing it with a little ‘spice’! Then there’s trying to cop specific tones to nail a certain song or part. 7Nation Army always sounds better with a decent fuzz where as Dancing In The Moonlight doesn’t suffer if you don’t have a soft phaser washing over it IMO.

Elitist is an interesting concept in relation to gear especially if it’s being used in the context of if you think it should be gigged or not rather than say the price/value of it...

Yup

even if the drums are programmed or all instruments synthesised they will be a trade off

[Al Krow]

The elitist point comes about 'cos there is often an implicit assumption from many BCers that gear use with a band is "proper" use. @dave_bass5mate I'm not suggesting you're guilty of or were intending this  - it's just that it is a pretty commonly repeated theme on BC. 

Frankly IMO it's a tosh viewpoint (along with lots of other implicit prejudice that we see in different guises all the time - just ask the US police force about theirs!). It's entirely up to folk how they use their own gear and where they use it, whether at home or in a band context. 

Some of my most creative BC buddies are not even in a band right now. Doesn't make the use of their gear any less valid. 

And tbf I think we are all agreed that in a band context a heck of a lot tonal subtlties and nuances can be lost, whereas you might actually appreciate them more at home. 

So evaluate them in whatever context makes most sense for you. 

Edited November 21, 2020 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

.

Edited November 21, 2020 by Al Krow
duplicate post

[dave_bass5]

36 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

So evaluate them in whatever context makes most sense for you. 

.Which is what i did, and then it all kicked off lol. 

[krispn]

Name and shame!

[Osiris]

51 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

The elitist point comes about 'cos there is often an implicit assumption from many BCers that gear use with a band is "proper" use. @dave_bass5mate I'm not suggesting you're guilty of or were intending this  - it's just that it is a pretty commonly repeated theme on BC. 

Frankly IMO it's a tosh viewpoint (along with lots of other implicit prejudice that we see in different guises all the time - just ask the US police force about theirs!). It's entirely up to folk how they use their own gear and where they use it, whether at home or in a band context. 

Some of my most creative BC buddies are not even in a band right now. Doesn't make the use of their gear any less valid. 

And tbf I think we are all agreed that in a band context a heck of a lot tonal subtlties and nuances can be lost, whereas you might actually appreciate them more at home. 

So evaluate them in whatever context makes most sense for you. 

But why not use your effects with the band?

I don't think there's anything elitist about that point of view, to say it is, is in itself tosh. 

You're in a couple of gigging bands, you have god knows how many effects, so why not use them? Isn't that the point of effects? 

[Cuzzie]

I don’t see any denigration or elitist ideologies here about any context of use, but you could also argue this is precisely why insistence on sound samples and settings is also not massively relevant as they will be made for a particular context which will be different to someone else’s.

what can be definitely said is that bass for the vast and overwhelming majority of situations will not be a solo instrument, if used alone it is likely to be layered, or played/recorded with other stuff - hence, how does it sound in the mix

[Woodinblack]

4 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 very appreciative of being able to set the HX Effects up as a series of pedal boards comprising 6 pedals and a stomp switch for each.

Which is exactly how I use mine. In that end the LT gave me an additional two foot pedals, which were ok, an expression pedal I didn't use, but unfortunately took away a huge amount of space, which is more important

4 hours ago, Al Krow said:

The one thing that would be really nice would be the recently introduced metering on the Floor / Rack / LT also being available on the Stomp and HX Effects.

Luckily never seen it so I don't miss it.  Although metering doesn't seem like anything I would need live - I have the mixing screen of the X18 in front of me, enough metering for anyone!

[Al Krow]

3 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Luckily never seen it so I don't miss it.  Although metering doesn't seem like anything I would need live - I have the mixing screen of the X18 in front of me, enough metering for anyone!

I was a bit envious of the decent metering on the compression / limiter patches on the LT and Floor, which could be really helpful when setting them up in terms of how much peak volume reduction is occurring and then applying appropriate make-up gain. Discovered that on the Becos pedals which has an excellent meter.

9 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Which is exactly how I use mine. In that end the LT gave me an additional two foot pedals, which were ok, an expression pedal I didn't use, but unfortunately took away a huge amount of space, which is more important

Sounds like the HX Effects is actually the better overall option for you then.

[LukeFRC]

for me how a thing sounds on a gig is the main thing.
Like if it was 100% home use then my laptop is more powerful than pretty much any effects pedal on the market and I would just work out a way to use that for signal processing. 
Not sure if  a) that's elitist, I guess some of you might still be using 486s? and b) if anyones done much gigging this year anyway


Also - I bought an electric guitar last week... this hx stomp thing is very nice with that too. 

[tauzero]

7 hours ago, Al Krow said:

The elitist point comes about 'cos there is often an implicit assumption from many BCers that gear use with a band is "proper" use. @dave_bass5mate I'm not suggesting you're guilty of or were intending this  - it's just that it is a pretty commonly repeated theme on BC.

If something is being reviewed or commented on in a particular context, it's sensible to say so. As I play live, for recordings, and occasionally just with myself (TMI?), it's nice to know what comments relate to what use.

[Woodinblack]

7 hours ago, Al Krow said:

I was a bit envious of the decent metering on the compression / limiter patches on the LT and Floor, which could be really helpful when setting them up in terms of how much peak volume reduction is occurring and then applying appropriate make-up gain. Discovered that on the Becos pedals which has an excellent meter.

Hmm.. never really worked for me. regardless what any meter says, it is just easier to try it and see what it is like when playing at volume. I think most of my stuff got set up at sound checks a long time ago and left since then. I don't use the HX FX in the house anyway so it doesn't matter there.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Woodinblack

[Osiris]

8 hours ago, tauzero said:

If something is being reviewed or commented on in a particular context, it's sensible to say so. As I play live, for recordings, and occasionally just with myself (TMI?), it's nice to know what comments relate to what use.

Very good point. I've mentioned this elsewhere but it's worth repeating to highlight this very issue. Around 3 or 4 years ago I bought a VT Bass pedal, I was seriously impressed by the sounds available from it going by the YouTube videos. Plugged it in at home and was really pleased with how it sounded when I'd dialled in the sound I'd got in my head. Took it to the next gig a few days later, set it up, checked the volume between on and off, and was ready to go. But when I kicked it in with the band, the bass vanished from the mix. I remember the guitarist looking over to see what was going on. I kicked the pedal off and the bass was back. I checked the pedal volume at the end of the song and it was fine. It was EQ'd to give a push in the mids while keeping the low end fat and enough highs to define the tone without making it top heavy. But it just didn't work, it sounded great on its own but it was an unusable tone suck in the mix, alongside a guitar and keys playing rock and pop stuff. 

[dave_bass5]

For years i would gig without rehearsals, as we were gigging every weekend, so anything i brought was taken from home to gigs and played. At home most always sounded great. I kept getting disappointed at how the pedals sounded at gigs though, but never really had the opportunity to get them right (no sound check’s  etc). It was only when the new line up started to rehearse more then gig that I’d  have a proper opportunity to play with effects (and rigs). I found that what worked at home (or mostly at work where I could set a small rig up at the weekends) wasn't ideal for band use. Sometimes it was just the settings, but a few times it was perfect until i played with the band, then I just couldn't get them to work. Things like phasers/chorus/Filter etc sound great in isolation, but ive found them to need quite a bit of tweaking to sound right with a loud band and at volume. They just seem to get lost sometimes. Maybe its just me though. I can never play loud at home.

These days, while i appreciate others giving reviews of what soemthing cant do, i reserve judgment on how well it works for me until ive used it with the band (unless it’s just for home use). YouTube etc is good for the technical reviews and overviews, but ive never found something coming out of a pair of hifi speakers will match what comes out of my rig anyway. 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by dave_bass5

[Cuzzie]

1 hour ago, dave_bass5 said:

For years i would gig without rehearsals, as we were gigging every weekend, so anything i brought was taken from home to gigs and played. At home most always sounded great. I kept getting disappointed at how the pedals sounded at gigs though, but never really had the opportunity to get them right (no sound check’s  etc). It was only when the new line up started to rehearse more then gig that I’d  have a proper opportunity to play with effects (and rigs). I found that what worked at home (or mostly at work where I could set a small rig up at the weekends) wasn't ideal for band use. Sometimes it was just the settings, but a few times it was perfect until i played with the band, then I just couldn't get them to work. Things like phasers/chorus/Filter etc sound great in isolation, but ive found them to need quite a bit of tweaking to sound right with a loud band and at volume. They just seem to get lost sometimes. Maybe its just me though. I can never play loud at home.

These days, while i appreciate others giving reviews of what soemthing cant do, i reserve judgment on how well it works for me until ive used it with the band (unless it’s just for home use). YouTube etc is good for the technical reviews and overviews, but ive never found something coming out of a pair of hifi speakers will match what comes out of my rig anyway. 

 

 

Yep all true, I have learnt what sounds ‘wrong’ isolated to sound ‘right’ in context

[dave_bass5]

3 hours ago, Cuzzie said:

Yep all true, I have learnt what sounds ‘wrong’ isolated to sound ‘right’ in context

Like the P bass 😁

[Al Krow]

Ah a P bass (well at least the Yammy PJ take on it) can sound pretty darned good in isolation and properly socially distanced 😁