Helix Floor/LT/HX/Stomp/PodGo owners' Club - Tips, Ideas & Patches

[SumOne]

Warning! Ramble ahead!

I'm thinking out loud here as was already writing this down to figure out Helix Stomp routing options out so please ignore if you don't want to see a long Helix routing chain of thought! Perhaps someone has time on their hands and is trying to figure out similar stuff or has some tips though.  

Current setup is Helix Stomp with this routing: 

• Helix FX Loop L:
  • Switchblade Pro (which means you can reverse the order of loops, or put them parallel/series, or clean blend)
    • Loop A: C4 (with DMC controller)> Crimson Red Preamp > Brown Acid Fuzz
    • Loop B: Octamizer Octaver > Gemini Chorus
• Helix FX Loop R (once I have the correct cables, it's just in Loop L after the Switchblade output at the moment) 
  • FEA Compressor

(+ 2 channel footswitch is on the way to use in the Helix expression pedal input to control the preset menu button and tuner/tap tempo).

That setup means footswitch control to do things like:

• FS1 Helix OD  > FS2 Loop L to Switchblade Pro controlling loops for Chorus/Octaver before/after C4/Crimson Red/Brown Acid each with their own footswitch   > FS3 Helix Reverb > Loop R with FEA comp (no FS) > Helix Amp/Cab (no FS).  = 5 blocks used.

The Helix and C4 do pretty good impressions of the Gemini and Octamizer (especially as they generally have other effects running after them) so it seems an alright idea to sell them, that possibly also does away for the need of the Switchblade Pro. Selling those three would raise about £300 so I'm trying  to figure out how to replicate their routing.

To replicate my current routing options the Helix Octaver and Chorus blocks need to be moved either side of the Loop L block and saved as different Presets.  

• Preset 1a: FS1 Helix OD > FS2 Helix Octaver > FS3 Helix Chorus > Helix Loop L (C4 > Crimson Red > Brown Acid: No FS - always on, use individual pedals on/off)  > Helix Reverb (no FS, controlled via snapshots) > Helix Loop R (FEA Comp: no FS - always on, use individual pedal on/off) > Helix Amp/Cab (no FS, always on) 

 

• Preset 1b: FS1 Helix OD > Helix Loop L (C4 > Crimson Red > Brown Acid: No FS - always on, use individual pedals on/off) > FS2 Helix Octaver > FS3 FS3 Helix Chorus > Helix Reverb (no FS, controlled via snapshots) > Helix Loop R (FEA Comp: no FS - always on, use individual pedal on/off) > Helix Amp/Cab (no FS) 

 

This takes me from using 5 blocks in my current setup to 7 and I'd lose the Helix Reverb FS (but could have different Snapshots with that on/off), and I'd lose the Helix Loop L footswitch so that'd need to be always on and controlled by clicking individual pedals on/off. 

My conclusion is that it takes quite a bit of planning! Technically it is possible to replicate the current routing options but there are tradeoffs: The individual pedals sound a bit better and have hands-on control and more immediate re-routing control, two more Helix blocks need to be used if those pedals go and it loses some individual FS control so several Presets/snapshots are needed to do it all via FS selection which is a bit more tricky and less spontaneous and intuitive to control.....I can't decide if that is is a £300 tradeoff worth making so for the time being I'm removing the Octamizer, Gemini and Switchblade Pro from the board to see how much I miss them.

If you read all that then well done! Now get out in the sun!

Edited June 16, 2021 by SumOne

[SumOne]

A couple of tips: 

• 'Action' and 'Page>' buttons together to access the Tuner/mute. So you can use the footswitch for something else.
• Unless you use an expression pedal it's well worth getting a dual footswitch. I got a Mosky from eBay for £15.99 including postage and it works fine (need to go on global settings and invert the polarity for FS4 to be on the left and FS5 on the right). (EDIT: That global setting polarity invert doesn't seem to work with this for some reason but changing the FS assign in Preferences seems to do the job).
  • I've assigned FS1, 2, 3 ,4 as stomps (as it has no light I'll generally stick with 4th being one style of effect to make things simple) and FS5 is the 'Page>'  button so I can access the menu to then scroll presets/snapshots/stomp views. Stomp control over 4x effects blocks at any one time (and can have more than one block assigned to a FS) should be plenty as I'll use the other 4 blocks for things like FX Loop, Amp & Cab, EQ, IRs that don't really need FS control and can have different snapshots for them on/off in different combinations. 

Edited June 17, 2021 by SumOne

[LukeFRC]

15 minutes ago, SumOne said:

'Action' and 'Page>' buttons together to access the Tuner/mute.

did not know this! thanks!

[uk_lefty]

7 hours ago, SumOne said:

A couple of tips: 

• 'Action' and 'Page>' buttons together to access the Tuner/mute. So you can use the footswitch for something else.
• Unless you use an expression pedal it's well worth getting a dual footswitch. I got a Mosky from eBay for £15.99 including postage and it works fine (need to go on global settings and invert the polarity for FS4 to be on the left and FS5 on the right).
  • I've assigned FS1, 2, 3 ,4 as stomps (as it has no light I'll generally stick with 4th being one style of effect to make things simple) and FS5 is the 'Page>'  button so I can access the menu to then scroll presets/snapshots/stomp views. Stomp control over 4x effects blocks at any one time (and can have more than one block assigned to a FS) should be plenty as I'll use the other 4 blocks for things like FX Loop, Amp & Cab, EQ, IRs that don't really need FS control and can have different snapshots for them on/off in different combinations. 

Great tips, thanks! 

Separate note... Has anyone seen the Andertons ads for the TC mini Mimiq? Looks like a cool little pedal to thicken up a guitar sound, could work for bass too I guess... But could it be replicated by adding a very short single delay in the HX Stomp? I keep seeing cool pedals and then I just think, wait, I'm sure the Stomp can do that! 

[LukeFRC]

34 minutes ago, uk_lefty said:

Great tips, thanks! 

Separate note... Has anyone seen the Andertons ads for the TC mini Mimiq? Looks like a cool little pedal to thicken up a guitar sound, could work for bass too I guess... But could it be replicated by adding a very short single delay in the HX Stomp? I keep seeing cool pedals and then I just think, wait, I'm sure the Stomp can do that! 

Or even the Dual sound set at the same octave could do similar 

[LukeFRC]

I think, I haven’t got the helix in front of me

[krispn]

Tiny bit of chorus might do something similar too,… maybe use both one with chorus and one on a parallel path with a tiny amount of slap back

[dave_bass5]

1 hour ago, uk_lefty said:

Great tips, thanks! 

Separate note... Has anyone seen the Andertons ads for the TC mini Mimiq? Looks like a cool little pedal to thicken up a guitar sound, could work for bass too I guess... But could it be replicated by adding a very short single delay in the HX Stomp? I keep seeing cool pedals and then I just think, wait, I'm sure the Stomp can do that! 

You could use the Dimension effect. This this based on the Boss Dimension D. I used to use the original pedal (still got it somewhere ) to thicken up my bass tone, and used the Stomp version a few times. Its like a chorus but without the ‘wobble’ if used correctly. A sort of doubling effect with a bit of course to blend this together I suppose. 

It might be that the Stomp/HFX etc dont have an equivalent effect to a lot of stand alone pedals, but having the ability to chain others together does seem to show you can get very close to most stand alone if you take the time to work out how. 

Obviously I’m not including Synth pedals, just before i get corrected lol. 

[SumOne]

On 23/03/2020 at 19:43, GisserD said:

I'm a bit lost. What am I supposed to do with this? 

 

I like the Dr tone stuff but don't understand his overall output level settings. That one for example:  adding +12dB Bass and +10dB Highs (and - 6dB mids) and overall level +6dB.... put that in as a parametric eq setting and it sounds good but is a massive volume boost (similar for a lot of his other settings). Why the +6dB overall level? It seems to need more like - 6dB to be unity. 

[dave_bass5]

Maybe thats with it all maxed out. After all, he has the Low and Highs at the highest settings as well. 

[SumOne]

21 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Maybe thats with it all maxed out. After all, he has the Low and Highs at the highest settings as well. 

Yeah I can't figure out why he does that though - it's very exact in all the balanced eq settings for the amp settings he does but it seems like the output volumes aren't matched to unity at all so need mucking about with to get to unity. 

[dave_bass5]

3 hours ago, SumOne said:

Yeah I can't figure out why he does that though - it's very exact in all the balanced eq settings for the amp settings he does but it seems like the output volumes aren't matched to unity at all so need mucking about with to get to unity. 

I guess its the same with most of the presets. They are just a starting block based on someone idea of what they like. 

Cant say i ever found anything that didn’t need tweaking quite a bit for my tastes. 

[LukeFRC]

3 hours ago, SumOne said:

Yeah I can't figure out why he does that though - it's very exact in all the balanced eq settings for the amp settings he does but it seems like the output volumes aren't matched to unity at all so need mucking about with to get to unity. 

His latest flat mid settings surprised me- they are volume matched and if anything quiet!

[uk_lefty]

On 19/06/2021 at 09:46, SumOne said:

I like the Dr tone stuff but don't understand his overall output level settings. That one for example:  adding +12dB Bass and +10dB Highs (and - 6dB mids) and overall level +6dB.... put that in as a parametric eq setting and it sounds good but is a massive volume boost (similar for a lot of his other settings). Why the +6dB overall level? It seems to need more like - 6dB to be unity. 

I uploaded a good handful of his presets and think I've now binned them all. The output levels were wildly all over the place and a lot of the sounds were pretty poor IMO. It is worth spending a few quid on some decent ones. 

[dave_bass5]

3 hours ago, uk_lefty said:

I uploaded a good handful of his presets and think I've now binned them all. The output levels were wildly all over the place and a lot of the sounds were pretty poor IMO. It is worth spending a few quid on some decent ones. 

Yeah, i was the same. Although the guy knows what he is doing, i never heard anything that made me go ‘wow’. Some half decent starting blocks I suppose but i always felt he was hyped up a bit too much. 

 

[LukeFRC]

56 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Yeah, i was the same. Although the guy knows what he is doing, i never heard anything that made me go ‘wow’. Some half decent starting blocks I suppose but i always felt he was hyped up a bit too much. 

 

My take is that he probably makes the best presets around if you play a Yamaha attitude. 
nah the presets I’ve never been blown away by, Maybe learn a little in terms of new ideas of how to set things up maybe. his flat mids amp settings though are really good starting places for a default good amp block starting point and build from there. That said I’ve never got the point of paying for a preset that I could work out  myself, what are some wow ones that are worth paying for? 
 

[uk_lefty]

1 hour ago, dave_bass5 said:

Yeah, i was the same. Although the guy knows what he is doing, i never heard anything that made me go ‘wow’. Some half decent starting blocks I suppose but i always felt he was hyped up a bit too much. 

 

I think it's a case of it sounding good for him with his own kit. But play a jazz bass through his Entwistle patch and you just get a very thin, very quiet no-bass noise. Others, like the Alembic pre amp blow your head off. 

Ultimately, someone here recommended me Sigma Audio and they've been great. Whether it was worth the 15 quid or whatever is yet to be seen because I resent paying for these things but there's some clever presets and they're a good platform for building up your own ideas. And the output is consistent. 

[dave_bass5]

5 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

My take is that he probably makes the best presets around if you play a Yamaha attitude. 
nah the presets I’ve never been blown away by, Maybe learn a little in terms of new ideas of how to set things up maybe. his flat mids amp settings though are really good starting places for a default good amp block starting point and build from there. That said I’ve never got the point of paying for a preset that I could work out  myself, what are some wow ones that are worth paying for? 
 

Haha, yeah, they suit him and his bass, but i bet even he tweaks them depending on the situation. 

I cant imagine any ‘wow’ ones that are worth paying for, or in fact any crap ones either. I cant see the point in buying something tailored to someone else’s playing. If it was that easy we wouldnt hate on the stock ones as much. Getting ideas on how to use the blocks to get what you want is a good idea if you get stuck, but I’d never pay any one when there is so much free info on line. 

Obviously thats just me though. 

Edited June 20, 2021 by dave_bass5

[SumOne]

Yeah, I don't think I'll be buying any presets. It's quite useful to see how others have done things though - particularly split path stuff. 

I'll probably buy more IRs at some point, just got these for $1 and am liking them https://www.drbonkerssoundlab.com/product/dr-bonkers-in-this-together-cab-pack-ir-collection/

[uk_lefty]

11 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

what are some wow ones that are worth paying for? 

Sigma Audio's bass essentials are not exactly "wow" but they're good solid settings. Plus they do a Trace Elliot IR which is OK. They're good ones to build from though. 

I have said this before in this thread I think, but I just don't understand how the expectation is that bassists just want ultra high gain noise sounds all the time. So some of the essentials pack are SVT, SVT pushed, SVT Dirty, when really you could just do an SVT and have two snapshots with ever increasing gain if that's what you want or whack a distortion pedal in it. Even in the heavy music I listen to I rarely hear ultra high gain bass. 

If anyone out there is doing SWR simulation please let me know! I'm starting to miss some of the presets on my Boss GT10B, Super Flat, 42 Level, Oakland Slap, etc. Those clean, punchy big bass tones that just get the job done. Even my old Fender Bronco modelling amp had great clean amp sims. Hearing one amp "dirty" is pretty much the same as hearing the others "dirty" just maybe a bit bassier or a bit more mid from one to the next. 

Edited June 21, 2021 by uk_lefty

[LukeFRC]

55 minutes ago, uk_lefty said:

Sigma Audio's bass essentials are not exactly "wow" but they're good solid settings. Plus they do a Trace Elliot IR which is OK. They're good ones to build from though. 

I have said this before in this thread I think, but I just don't understand how the expectation is that bassists just want ultra high gain noise sounds all the time. So some of the essentials pack are SVT, SVT pushed, SVT Dirty, when really you could just do an SVT and have two snapshots with ever increasing gain if that's what you want or whack a distortion pedal in it. Even in the heavy music I listen to I rarely hear ultra high gain bass. 

If anyone out there is doing SWR simulation please let me know! I'm starting to miss some of the presets on my Boss GT10B, Super Flat, 42 Level, Oakland Slap, etc. Those clean, punchy big bass tones that just get the job done. Even my old Fender Bronco modelling amp had great clean amp sims. Hearing one amp "dirty" is pretty much the same as hearing the others "dirty" just maybe a bit bassier or a bit more mid from one to the next. 

I think that's the slight problem bass players have compared to guitarists. - I think there is often a lot more colouration given by effects, amp and speaker, A patch set up to make you sound like John Squire of the Stone Roses for example, will probably get you in the ball park given similar pickup types.... with bass it seems a bit more subtle and playing with small margins,  I'm pretty sure to get a specific tone that will work for a wide range of basses you would have to kill a lot of the dynamics. 
And yes, not enough clean amps. I liked the SWR and EBS sims Zoom have. Going back to John's Dr Tone stuff one thing I took from his latest flat mids amp settings is how low he ends up running the gain on most the models to get a clean sound. 
Also the fender bassman amp sounds nice clean. 

[dave_bass5]

I also think a lot of us try and get a tone that we hear on a recording. Its not always clear what the original tone is like once it’s mixed in. Could have a lot more dirt on it than seems apparent.

When we are sitting at home tweaking, everything is going to be so obvious and stand out, but this might actually work better with a band or in a mix. 

I used a couple of the stock presets at a rehearsal once as i was showing my guitarist what the Stomp could do, and i was surprised i didn't hate them as much as when I had tried them sitting at home.  

Edited June 21, 2021 by dave_bass5

[LukeFRC]

4 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

I also think a lot of us try and get a tone that we hear on a recording. Its not always clear what the original tone is like once it’s mixed in. Could have a lot more dirt on it than seems apparent.

When we are sitting at home tweaking, everything is going to be so obvious and Satan’s out, but this might actually work better with a band or in a mix. 

I used a couple of the stock presets at a rehearsal once as i was showing my guitarist what the Stomp could do, and i was surprised i didn't hate them as much as when I had tried them sitting at home.  

yeah - some of the cab models are good examples. Solo they sound a bit spongy and fluffy... but if they are what it take to make the sound sit in the mix better*... why be precious? 

*presuming DI to desk, obv diff if running into backline

[uk_lefty]

13 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

i was surprised i didn't hate them as much as when I had tried them sitting at home.  

Yep! And things that sound great at home sound awful at volume with the band!

[javi_bassist]

I am now experimenting with some IR. I like the Seacow cabs. I have purchased some and I like the Ampeg 4x10. And I also like the stock cab, the Brute 2x15. However, before the HX, I have always get my sound from the DI of my amp or my preamp pedal. I'm still not sure about IRs... I might switch back to just DI with a LPF.