too sensitive or not

[paul_c2]

You need to decide if you can reconcile the difference(s) and work harmoniously (sorry for the pun) with the guitarist. If the band had a distinct leader, its very easy - they deal with it/decide upon whichever issue it is, then a line is drawn under the episode and everyone moves on. If there is no one leader then all of you are going to need to sort it out somehow or other but it seems its you vs the guitarist, and that the others are only indirectly involved (and probably don't want to be drawn into it).

[WHUFC BASS]

17 minutes ago, stef030 said:

but the guitarist wants to perhaps control is too strong but lead us in a rockier vein

Listen to him. You'll go far !

[Bridgehouse]

1 minute ago, WHUFC BASS said:

Listen to him. You'll go far !

 

[lurksalot]

So he’s a knob then 

[lurksalot]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

Yes, but only if it is the resignation of the guy causing the problem.

Not necessarily , it might initiate an ‘it’s me or him’ debate without the confrontation , clear the air , and solve the issue one way or the other.

decisions need to be made to get a result out of the situation or festering will be the outcome , and that isn’t healthy  

[mingsta]

Seriously, sod that. How do the rest of the band feel about this? Seems to me that he's the problem. Have the chat and ask him to give others a bit more respect as individuals. There's plenty of good guitarists out there... 

[jezzaboy]

He`s the guitarist? Get shot of him, there`s loads about!!

1 hour ago, lurksalot said:

So he’s a knob then 

Couldn`t have put it better myself.

[bassjim]

The only time its ok for a band member to dictate at this level is if the other band member/s cant keep up or lack the required musicianship or turn up not really knowing or understanding their parts due to lack of real interest. If you are playing some crazy bent harmonics with some tasty slap and tap fills every four bars then ok someone needs to reign it in and steer the ship.

There can be a passion to drive a band forward but this is often a compromise and most experienced musicians that MD  will be aware of band members limits, both mentally as well as ability and know when to stop pushing their luck. 

I would offer a meeting with him and explain that although you understand his need to do things in a certain way, and although you appreciate his dedication he also has to compromise and allow you as an individual to grow musically at your own pace. 

Any thing done in what he may perceive  to be bad taste  is something you have to live with not him. If its really bugging him that much but none of the rest of the band have issues with the way you play then he needs to decide at what level is he happy to stick around.

Give him an option to just turn up and play. Any thing thats not to his liking is now beyond his control so he has no responsibility for it. If he finds it really hard at that point he can always go out and find himself a band of musicians that are on his wavelength and you can advertise for a guitarist thats on yours. 

 

 

[thebigyin]

18 hours ago, stef030 said:

thankyou all for the comments,

so let me explain further,

no he is not the band leader or even the longest member,

but he does like to analize the smallest detail,

we are a pub covers band,

a few weeks ago he put forward a song to add to the set list,afier a discussion with the band 

we all said it would not go with what we do although we all liked the song it is just not us,

he spat the dummy out

so this week we started rehearsing a suggestion from the drummer,it was all going ok until he started explaining the 

chord sequence in the middle eight which we had all played through a couple of times and all was well,

until he said I think you should continue that line for the solo,

when I said hold on the keyboard player was trying to explain something to us all,he flipped big time

to which I said there is no solo in this song and I thought we all agreed to play this as is because its so popular,

yeh yeh but there is space for a solo,

oh and I don't think we need that chorus on,

but he did not realize the threshold was turned off it was only showing the red light but the effect was off,

I knew he would say some thing if he thought it was on,the placebo effect and it worked,

so when we finished the rehearsal I was feeling angry,fustrated and getting ready for a argument 

but I left and stewed for a couple of days,

I have had no contact with anyone,so will go to the rehearsal on wed and see what decision I will make.

dependant on the result of a chat,

 

Pity you cant find a new Guitarist....my last band our Drummer was a pain in the butt type....he had so called perfect pitch so the slightest thing he would pick up on....you didn't play that right....you are slightly out....you cant sing this that or the other type....wouldn't play tunes in dropped D tuning ect, didn't like playing songs a semi-tone down to accommodate vocalist....slagged every other local band off if we were out socialising....many times he was close to been slapped lol.

[ahpook]

18 hours ago, stef030 said:

thankyou all for the comments,

so let me explain further,

no he is not the band leader or even the longest member,

but he does like to analize the smallest detail,

we are a pub covers band,

a few weeks ago he put forward a song to add to the set list,afier a discussion with the band 

we all said it would not go with what we do although we all liked the song it is just not us,

he spat the dummy out

so this week we started rehearsing a suggestion from the drummer,it was all going ok until he started explaining the 

chord sequence in the middle eight which we had all played through a couple of times and all was well,

until he said I think you should continue that line for the solo,

when I said hold on the keyboard player was trying to explain something to us all,he flipped big time

to which I said there is no solo in this song and I thought we all agreed to play this as is because its so popular,

yeh yeh but there is space for a solo,

oh and I don't think we need that chorus on,

but he did not realize the threshold was turned off it was only showing the red light but the effect was off,

I knew he would say some thing if he thought it was on,the placebo effect and it worked,

so when we finished the rehearsal I was feeling angry,fustrated and getting ready for a argument 

but I left and stewed for a couple of days,

I have had no contact with anyone,so will go to the rehearsal on wed and see what decision I will make.

dependant on the result of a chat,

 

Try not to stew about it if you can, but I think it's time for a serious discussion about how the band is going to work. If the guitarist is calling all the shots (or trying to !) and you're not happy with it then something has to happen. I'd try to canvas opinion from the other band members if you can - it's entirely possible that you're not the only one who feels this way, and see if you can all have a word with him. If the rest of the band works and it's just the guitarist who's the problem then he should be the one looking for a new band, not you.

It's pointless just leaving without saying anything as far as I'm concerned, so think about what you'd like to say at the next rehearsal and see if anyone else feels the the same way and wants to raise it too. With some discussion and compromise you might be able to get things going in a sensible direction. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

 

[Monkey Steve]

3 minutes ago, ahpook said:

Try not to stew about it if you can, but I think it's time for a serious discussion about how the band is going to work. If the guitarist is calling all the shots (or trying to !) and you're not happy with it then something has to happen. I'd try to canvas opinion from the other band members if you can - it's entirely possible that you're not the only one who feels this way, and see if you can all have a word with him. If the rest of the band works and it's just the guitarist who's the problem then he should be the one looking for a new band, not you.

It's pointless just leaving without saying anything as far as I'm concerned, so think about what you'd like to say at the next rehearsal and see if anyone else feels the the same way and wants to raise it too. With some discussion and compromise you might be able to get things going in a sensible direction. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

 

exactly this.  If he was the BL and it was "his" band then while it's still worth discussing, you're probably not going to get very far, and the question is whether you want to be in a band where people get treated like that.  At best you might get him to put his points across in a more polite way

However, he's not, so the question is whether the band is going to put up with him behaving like this, and if not, is he going to change?  I'd echo the idea of having a chat with the other band members first, to see how unhappy they are with him behaving like a toolbag.

I've been in bands with members like this before, and it's not pleasant, but it does take someone to stand up to them.  Is he as good a guitarist as he thinks he is?  How difficult would he be to replace?  I've certainly procrastinated, or avoided the issue when one band member has been behaving badly for one reason or another, and it's never ended well, but often the band hadn't wanted to deal with it, either for fear that the band member couldn't be replaced very easily, or simply not wanting to have that awkward "it's not us, it's you" conversation.

It's fine to make suggestions about arrangements, how people are playing, etc, but there is a way to do it so that it's constructive, and it's not by spitting your dummy out if you don't get your own way.  And putting a solo into a cover version where it's not in the original - somebody needs to give his over inflated ego a good kicking and explain that the concept that a "band" means that it isn't all about him.

[stingrayPete1977]

I think we all know a guitarist like this, he's trying to decide on your bass tone and lines yet he's adding in solos where one isn't needed! 

I fear this won't end well 😖

[bassbiscuits]

On 25/11/2018 at 12:59, stef030 said:

so I play a covers band,

when we chat about new material the guitarist works out everyones part,

and recently even down to the sound and effects that are used,

after 47 years of playing it has  started to get me down so it is becoming a bind,

but we will change a song to accommodate a guitar solo or two,but he wants me to stick to script 

and any little accents are now frowned upon,

oh dear 

I think I know the answer

 

 

 

I don't understand why you aren't working out the parts yourself tho - why do you need him to tell you how to play the songs correctly?

[stef030]

Just now, bassbiscuits said:

I don't understand why you aren't working out the parts yourself tho - why do you need him to tell you how to play the songs correctly?

perhaps I didn't explain myself properly,

its a age thing 

I do work them out and play as is,

he wants to control sound,how its played and there are no added chops or notes,

but he wants to have a free hand and add solos in songs that have none ect

[Bridgehouse]

Just now, stef030 said:

perhaps I didn't explain myself properly,

its a age thing 

I do work them out and play as is,

he wants to control sound,how its played and there are no added chops or notes,

but he wants to have a free hand and add solos in songs that have none ect

And that statement right there tells you something is wrong - very wrong. 

[Woodinblack]

And it depends on your own personality I guess. If told in that sort of situation what to play, I would listen, say “that’s an interesting idea” and carry on regardless. If something is suggested I don’t mind listening but being told is something different if you are not employed for that

[FinnDave]

Quite honestly, if anyone behaved like that in any band I have known, I suspect they'd be visiting the out patients dept of the local hospital to have their guitar removed from a sensitive part of their anatomy.

[BassTractor]

35 minutes ago, FinnDave said:

Quite honestly, if anyone behaved like that in any band I have known, I suspect they'd be visiting the out patients dept of the local hospital to have their guitar removed from a sensitive part of their anatomy.

Hehehe. The Finnish genes have smitten you! But now you're back in polite UK, and in polite UK, one simply doesn't do that. No, in polite UK, one shoves his guitar up his aahrse.

Edited November 27, 2018 by BassTractor

[bassbiscuits]

1 hour ago, stef030 said:

perhaps I didn't explain myself properly,

its a age thing 

I do work them out and play as is,

he wants to control sound,how its played and there are no added chops or notes,

but he wants to have a free hand and add solos in songs that have none ect

Hmm I understand - I'm afraid I think your guitarist sounds like a prat. 

 

Edited November 27, 2018 by bassbiscuits

[Monkey Steve]

just to put the counter argument, the band I'm helping out at the moment had an ex-bass player who was so poor that he wasn't allowed to play on their last album, what with him being a very average guitarist who had blagged his way into the band.  They tell me that there quite a lot of telling him forcefully that he wasn't playing the right bass lines, had the feel completely wrong, and should take some lessons so that he actually played like a bass player rather than an incompetent guitarist.

The response he always gave was that he was right, and that he wanted to play and sound like himself, not like some other bass player.  Obviously this ended in a sacking.

So there comes a point where ego outstrips talent and some people need to be told to play better (and to pay attention to what they're being told)

[paul_c2]

10 minutes ago, Monkey Steve said:

just to put the counter argument, the band I'm helping out at the moment had an ex-bass player who was so poor that he wasn't allowed to play on their last album, what with him being a very average guitarist who had blagged his way into the band.  They tell me that there quite a lot of telling him forcefully that he wasn't playing the right bass lines, had the feel completely wrong, and should take some lessons so that he actually played like a bass player rather than an incompetent guitarist.

The response he always gave was that he was right, and that he wanted to play and sound like himself, not like some other bass player.  Obviously this ended in a sacking.

So there comes a point where ego outstrips talent and some people need to be told to play better (and to pay attention to what they're being told)

Indeed. And it is unfortunate that those who most need to be told, are least likely to accept and identify shortcomings in their own ability or performance. (Accepted, some do know though, and do their best - which is fair enough).

[Muzz]

I've played in an originals band with a BL who wrote (and sang) everything, and was very sure of how he wanted it to sound. He was (and is) a very talented musician on all sorts of instruments, and I loved the songs, so I was happy to play what I was told, how I was told to do it, for a few years at least.

A pub covers band, though, is a very different box of frogs, and the OP's guitard sounds like very hard work. It'd have to be a verrrry good band for me to put up with that sort of control freakery...

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, Monkey Steve said:

So there comes a point where ego outstrips talent and some people need to be told to play better (and to pay attention to what they're being told)

So what is the point? If you can't trust him to play something right and you have to explain everything, wouldn't you just be better off (for everyones sake) with someone else?

[bubinga5]

Just remember without bass the music is like a house without foundation. Stand yor ground.

[stef030]

good evening chaps,

update

went to rehearsal tonight,did not take any gear and was the last to arrive,

normally I am first as I like to have a noodle just to get myself up and running,

so when I walked in they all just looked oh dear,

anyway,I said I need a few minutes from everyone and they all stopped,

after explaining myself for a few minutes saying exactly how I feel and all the other things I said on here,

everyone to be fair listened to all my points and agreed things were wrong,and that it would change,the guitarist 

got a bit arsey until he realised that the guys agreed with me,at which point he backed down and said he was sorry

and had everyones best interests at heart,

then said we need to speak more as a band regards all aspects of the music,

how would I want to go forward,to which I said they need to have a conversation with me not there to discuss all my points,

at that point I left and came home,

picked up the fretless and played some john martyn 

nice

thankyou all again for the advice

it did help