Are you or yr band political?

[Mr Shiny Cadillackness]

And does it cause any problems within your band? I ask, since I'm a vehment anarcho-socialist, yet my band mates are all pretty average, run of the mill guys (basically capitalists in this society, IMHO anyway). They're good mates though, we've been friends for years and we all love the same music so it works. We keep politics out of our music, since I'm sh*te at writing lyrics and the singer doesn't really care about politics enough.

The only real problem would be in the unlikely event, that we would be offered a deal by a major label. I can handle being in a band, with people sponsored by corporations (so long as I'm never personally linked to any of it), that's their choice as individuals. However, I'd have to leave the band as a matter of principle, if the rest wanted to sign to a major label or an associate of one.

As much as I love their music, bands like Rage Against and the Machine, The Clash and Primal Scream seem so hypocritical to me, promoting socialism either on their records or off (usually both), and then getting signed to capitalist corporations like Sony, CBS and Epic. I grew up listening to these bands, back when I was young and had no interest in politics. Now I've grown up and developed an interest in the sunject, it's left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth, now it's become apparant that not only are they just sell outs like everyone else, but they're a bunch of charlatans on top of that.

[Toasted]

If you really wanted to spread your message, surely you'd want the biggest platform to spread it from?

RATM retained full artistic control of their music / albums / advertising, but got the benefit of the machine that is Sony. It looks like a win/win for them to me.

[YouMa]

I think its inevitable that most politcal bands end up making a fool of themselves at some point.

[odub]

I think I read an article about RATM and their major label which went somethinf along the lines of they got complete freedom to say and do what they want and had the opportunity to come across to many more people than going at it on their own.

oh yeah, like wot toasted said

Also, as much as I like RATM and co, If I want to learn something about politics I'll read an article by someone with a phd in the subject. Being good at rapping does not make someone my teacher.

Edited December 2, 2008 by odub

[bremen]

[quote name='Mr Shiny Cadillackness' post='342802' date='Dec 2 2008, 11:12 AM']And does it cause any problems within your band? I ask, since I'm a vehment anarcho-socialist, yet my band mates are all pretty average, run of the mill guys (basically capitalists in this society, IMHO anyway). They're good mates though, we've been friends for years and we all love the same music so it works. We keep politics out of our music, since I'm sh*te at writing lyrics and the singer doesn't really care about politics enough.[/quote]

Aren't socialism and anarchism mutually exclusive?

I had some trouble with a band I was in a little while ago as the guitarist mouthed off about anarchy and smashing the state but had no problem with benefitting from the (socialist in principle) Welfare State.

Isn't anarchism just another word for laissez-faire capitalism?

I'm going to wish I hadn't started this...

edit: by the way, the 'young conservative' in my sig is ironic; I'd describe my politics as left-of-livingstone.

Edited December 2, 2008 by bremen

[BigBeefChief]

The truth is, you can't be anarcho-socialist without being a hypocrite.

This isn't a dig, we are all hypocrites. Vegetarians sitting on leather seats, wearing lipstick etc.

Who is your internet provider? I doubt its the local Mung-bean cooperative.

If you feel the need to get signed, you'd need to accept the hypocracy that comes with it. I don't know a single famous musician who's [i]really [/i]true to their beliefs. But then I don't know any person who lives 100% in line with their belief system.


Look at Bono. What a c***.

[Mr Shiny Cadillackness]

I've read of RATM's stance on the matter, but to me that just doesn't cut it. At the end of the day, their label is still making a huge profit, so nobody wins in the end. Added to that, that most of RATM's fans are either pseudo middle-class socialists from SUV-driving "soccer mom" families, I doubt a very relevant percentage of their fans ever truly convert so to speak.

I'd really like to see what kind of houses these people live in, what cars they drive, if they live extravagantly off camera so to speak.

[bremen]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='342820' date='Dec 2 2008, 11:22 AM']The truth is, you can't be anarcho-socialist without being a hypocrite.

This isn't a dig, we are all hypocrites. Vegetarians sitting on leather seats, wearing lipstick etc.

Who is your internet provider? I doubt its the local Mung-bean cooperative.

If you feel the need to get signed, you'd need to accept the hypocracy that comes with it. I don't know a single famous musician who's [i]really [/i]true to their beliefs. But then I don't know any person who lives 100% in line with their belief system.


Look at Bono. What a c***.[/quote]


We don't *eat* the leather seats!

[Merton]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='342820' date='Dec 2 2008, 11:22 AM']If you feel the need to get signed, you'd need to accept the hypocracy that comes with it. I don't know a single famous musician who's [i]really [/i]true to their beliefs. But then I don't know any person who lives 100% in line with their belief system.

Look at Bono. What a c***.[/quote]
Brilliant and true. And yes, Bono is a c***.

[neepheid]

[quote name='bremen' post='342824' date='Dec 2 2008, 11:24 AM']We don't *eat* the leather seats![/quote]

Ahh, but in times of famine, would you?

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='342820' date='Dec 2 2008, 11:22 AM']Look at Bono. What a c***.[/quote]


FTW!!!

[small_lump_of_green_putty]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='342820' date='Dec 2 2008, 11:22 AM']The truth is, you can't be anarcho-socialist without being a hypocrite.[/quote]
I want to be an individual too, just like everyone else.

[odub]

[quote name='Mr Shiny Cadillackness' post='342823' date='Dec 2 2008, 11:23 AM']I've read of RATM's stance on the matter, but to me that just doesn't cut it. At the end of the day, their label is still making a huge profit, so nobody wins in the end. Added to that, that most of RATM's fans are either pseudo middle-class socialists from SUV-driving "soccer mom" families, I doubt a very relevant percentage of their fans ever truly convert so to speak.

I'd really like to see what kind of houses these people live in, what cars they drive, if they live extravagantly off camera so to speak.[/quote]

Drives a prius if the internet is to be beleived

[Mr Shiny Cadillackness]

I personally believe that true socialism is not possible without anarchy, and that all these "socialist" states we've seen are really just authoritarian empires, enforcing a socialist economy upon the people as a way to hide the fact there is no rael freedom.

As for using corporate products, well, the's just a sad by-product of a capitalist society. To survive, one must conform at least to some extent. But there are basic survival necessities, luxuries and that grey area inbetween. For instance, I see using an ISP a necessary evil, to remain informed.

EDIT: I guess RATM see getting signed as a necessary evil too, but this is where I disagree with them.

Edited December 2, 2008 by Mr Shiny Cadillackness

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='Mr Shiny Cadillackness' post='342836' date='Dec 2 2008, 11:29 AM']I personally believe that true socialism is not possible without anarchy, and that all these "socialist" states we've seen are really just authoritarian empires, enforcing a socialist economy upon the people as a way to hide the fact there is no rael freedom.

As for using corporate products, well, the's just a sad by-product of a capitalist society. To survive, one must conform at least to some extent. But there are basic survival necessities, luxuries and that grey area inbetween. For instance, I see using an ISP a necessary evil, to remain informed.[/quote]


Ah to be 15 again.

[bremen]

www.politicalcompass.org

I'd be interested to see we end up on this

[BigBeefChief]

I'm all about "stickin' it to the man", but obviously not so hard that he'll stop paying me.

[Mr Shiny Cadillackness]

[quote name='bremen' post='342841' date='Dec 2 2008, 11:31 AM']www.politicalcompass.org

I'd be interested to see we end up on this[/quote]


Funny you should mention that, it was one of the first things to really get me intrested in the subject. As you might expect, I fall somewhere in the bottom left-hand corner.

[bremen]

[quote name='Mr Shiny Cadillackness' post='342836' date='Dec 2 2008, 11:29 AM']I personally believe that true socialism is not possible without anarchy, and that all these "socialist" states we've seen are really just authoritarian empires, enforcing a socialist economy upon the people as a way to hide the fact there is no rael freedom.[/quote]



Marx would have it the other way round, that socialism is a stepping stone towards anarchy. If you remove government from a capitalist state, the resultant anarchy wouldn't be of the love-and-peace variety.

I'd agree that most states that call themselves socialist are authoritarian (with the possible exception of Cuba which has done incredible things for Cubans despite the US's best efforts).

[Mr Shiny Cadillackness]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='342838' date='Dec 2 2008, 11:29 AM']Ah to be 15 again.[/quote]

LOL I must've grown younger mentally!

Edited December 2, 2008 by Mr Shiny Cadillackness

[Mr Shiny Cadillackness]

[quote name='bremen' post='342853' date='Dec 2 2008, 11:37 AM']Marx would have it the other way round, that socialism is a stepping stone towards anarchy. If you remove government from a capitalist state, the resultant anarchy wouldn't be of the love-and-peace variety.

I'd agree that most states that call themselves socialist are authoritarian (with the possible exception of Cuba which has done incredible things for Cubans despite the US's best efforts).[/quote]

Yeah, that seems to be a common belief amongst many of my comrades as you might expect. I should add, that I really have no faith that my beliefs are workable, the way that human race stands. I just don't think we're evolved enough to embrace what I'm gunning for, human nature just makes us far too selfish in general to voluntarily share (something else most of my brethren disagree with me on).

So really, my cause is hopeless. Life's a bitch.

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='Mr Shiny Cadillackness' post='342863' date='Dec 2 2008, 11:42 AM']Yeah, that seems to be a common belief amongst many of my comrades as you might expect. I should add, that I really have no faith that my beliefs are workable, the way that human race stands. I just don't think we're evolved enough to embrace what I'm gunning for, human nature just makes us far too selfish in general to voluntarily share (something else most of my brethren disagree with me on).

So really, my cause is hopeless. Life's a bitch.[/quote]


Might as well go out and buy a BMW on HP.

[Mr Shiny Cadillackness]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='342870' date='Dec 2 2008, 11:49 AM']Might as well go out and buy a BMW on HP.[/quote]

Haha, and then leave the country for 6 years

[bremen]

[quote name='Mr Shiny Cadillackness' post='342863' date='Dec 2 2008, 11:42 AM']Yeah, that seems to be a common belief amongst many of my comrades as you might expect. I should add, that I really have no faith that my beliefs are workable, the way that human race stands. I just don't think we're evolved enough to embrace what I'm gunning for, human nature just makes us far too selfish in general to voluntarily share (something else most of my brethren disagree with me on).

So really, my cause is hopeless. Life's a bitch.[/quote]

On the other hand, a little socialism goes a long way. Take the NHS, council housing (remember that?), trades unions. Life would be a bigger bitch without them. We have a long way to go but we're a long way from feudalism :-)

[Mr Shiny Cadillackness]

[quote name='bremen' post='342878' date='Dec 2 2008, 11:53 AM']On the other hand, a little socialism goes a long way. Take the NHS, council housing (remember that?), trades unions. Life would be a bigger bitch without them. We have a long way to go but we're a long way from feudalism :-)[/quote]

Definitely, admittedly I bitch a lot about this country and it's far from perfect, but we could do a hell of a lot worse. It's one of the best in the world, but don't read too much into that