Entwistle PBX or PBXN?

[ianrendall]

I’m looking to pimp my 50s RW P bass with an Entwistle pup but can’t decide which to get. I am pleased with the sound I get from the stock pups, but I’ve heard many good things about the Ents, so want to give them a try. 

I I have a set of TI flats on the way and play through GK amps. My band plays swing music, big band stuff, Mickey Bubbles etc, although I’m not too worried about having a style-correct tone.

From what I can ascertain, the PBXNs neo magnets are very hot and aggressive, so I am gearing towards the PBXs at the moment. Could the neo aggression be dialled out if necessary with the tone control perhaps though?

I cannot find any vids of the Entwistle P pups, let alone a comparison between the two. 

Any pointers would be great. 

Love you bye x

[hooky_lowdown]

The PBX's would be a downgrade on the stock pickups in your 50's RW P bass. Both PBX and PBXN's would give a more "modern" sound.

What is it exactly you don't like about the sound from the RW bass? If you're looking for a "brighter" - more modern sound, simply changing the capacitor from the stock 0.1 cap to a modern 0.047 cap would help boost the high end, would cost you no more than £1.

[ianrendall]

8 minutes ago, hooky_lowdown said:

The PBX's would be a downgrade on the stock pickups in your 50's RW P bass. Both PBX and PBXN's would give a more "modern" sound.

What is it exactly you don't like about the sound from the RW bass? If you're looking for a "brighter" - more modern sound, simply changing the capacitor from the stock 0.1 cap to a modern 0.047 cap would help boost the high end, would cost you no more than £1.

There’s nothing I really dislike from the stock pup. I suppose a little more punch really. But then, if I’m getting flats then a more modern pickup would be a bit contradictory. 

The low price of the Ents makes me want to experiment, so if I didn’t like the result, it’s not a great loss. 

I’ll try the flats with the stock pup first and go from there  I might get the punch I want from the flats.

I would like to hear more about other capacitor options though 😁

 

[discreet]

As said, the stock pickup on the RoadWorn series is a real cracker. The Entwistle P pickup is good, but doesn't have the vintage tone of the stock pickup. I have had both JBX and JBXN pickups on my Jazz and while they're great and powerful Jazz pickups, I fear the P version may not get you where you want to be.

Also, if you've not used TI flats before you may find them a bit 'floppy' for want of a better word. When I had a RoadWorn P, I found that La Bella flats complemented the sound and playability perfectly and if you're looking for the vintage vibe and feel you can't do better. IMHO, of course.

One modification I did do was to fit a Sprague Orange Drop cap which really enhanced the tone control a lot. Again, a very vintage sound.

Edited November 29, 2018 by discreet

[hooky_lowdown]

I see, well, there are a few ways to get more punch, boost the mids on your GK amp will be quick and simple. The TI flats would be the wrong option, they are more mellow sounding and wouldn't give the punch you are looking for. Either Chromes or Fender flats would be better suited as they are higher tension than the TI's and will give a more dynamic and punchy sound.

The 0.1 cap in the 50s RW is ideal, so I wouldn't change that. I have a Yamaha RBX260 with stock Fender MIM pickups and loom with a 0.1 cap, with cheap flats and it is a monster with regards to punch - in fact I think it's too punchy and I had to lower the pickups significantly to reduce the punch. The pickups are hot, around 14k, and along with the 0.1 cap and flatwounds, it is the Mike Tyson of any p bass I've ever played.

Also, playing with a pick will give more punch too.

Edited November 29, 2018 by hooky_lowdown

[ianrendall]

19 minutes ago, hooky_lowdown said:

I see, well, there are a few ways to get more punch, boost the mids on your GK amp will be quick and simple. The TI flats would be the wrong option, they are more mellow sounding and wouldn't give the punch you are looking for. Either Chromes or Fender flats would be better suited as they are higher tension than the TI's and will give a more dynamic and punchy sound.

The 0.1 cap in the 50s RW is ideal, so I wouldn't change that. I have a Yamaha RBX260 with stock Fender MIM pickups and loom with a 0.1 cap, with cheap flats and it is a monster with regards to punch - in fact I think it's too punchy and I had to lower the pickups significantly to reduce the punch. The pickups are hot, around 14k, and along with the 0.1 cap and flatwounds, it is the Mike Tyson of any p bass I've ever played.

Also, playing with a pick will give more punch too.

Oh don’t worry, I’m having great fun with those fabled GK mids on my 700RB, along with the magic Boost control! 

My trouble is, I don’t know what sound I want until I’ve got it, so it might be that the TIs give me the sound I like, and that may well be mellow. I know they are known to be floppy but I do have quite a light touch. 

I will definitely look into the Sprague Orange Drop cap. Are they crunchy with a soft centre or do you have to suck them?

[hooky_lowdown]

4 minutes ago, ianrendall said:

Oh don’t worry, I’m having great fun with those fabled GK mids on my 700RB, along with the magic Boost control! 

My trouble is, I don’t know what sound I want until I’ve got it, so it might be that the TIs give me the sound I like, and that may well be mellow. I know they are known to be floppy but I do have quite a light touch. 

I will definitely look into the Sprague Orange Drop cap. Are they crunchy with a soft centre or do you have to suck them?

You have a decent set up there with a 50s RW p bass and 700RB. What cab(s) are you running the RB through, if it's a 4x10, then 2x15 would be a natural progression to give more punch, although some 4x10s can be very punchy. I'm guessing you are looking to be heard more in the mix, but if you don't have a sound or tone in mind, changing pickups doesn't seem a good way to find the tone you want. Different strings will have a greater impact on your sound than changing the pickup.

The value of the capacitor will make a greater difference than the brand. Orange Drop are good caps, a 0.1 cap cuts a lot of high end, leaving lots of punchy low end, the standard 0.047 cap sits in the middle, has less low end than the 0.1 cap and more high end, or a 0.022 cap (which is essentially a guitar cap) lets lots of high end through, and less low end.

Having a light touch may be the issue with you needing more punch, so a hotter pickup (something around 14k) would be a good way to go to, the obvious suggestion would be a Seymour Duncan Quater Pounder (SPB-3).

[ianrendall]

2 hours ago, hooky_lowdown said:

You have a decent set up there with a 50s RW p bass and 700RB. What cab(s) are you running the RB through, if it's a 4x10, then 2x15 would be a natural progression to give more punch, although some 4x10s can be very punchy. I'm guessing you are looking to be heard more in the mix, but if you don't have a sound or tone in mind, changing pickups doesn't seem a good way to find the tone you want. Different strings will have a greater impact on your sound than changing the pickup.

The value of the capacitor will make a greater difference than the brand. Orange Drop are good caps, a 0.1 cap cuts a lot of high end, leaving lots of punchy low end, the standard 0.047 cap sits in the middle, has less low end than the 0.1 cap and more high end, or a 0.022 cap (which is essentially a guitar cap) lets lots of high end through, and less low end.

Having a light touch may be the issue with you needing more punch, so a hotter pickup (something around 14k) would be a good way to go to, the obvious suggestion would be a Seymour Duncan Quater Pounder (SPB-3).

I really am completely out of the loop when it comes to stuff like this as you can tell! 

I’m running through a Gen 1 BF Midget, which will have to be prised from my cold, dead hands, but I am looking to add another cab. Possibly another Midget, but also perhaps a 210 or 115. 410s and 215s are just simply too big for my present storage capacity and daft hairdressers car.

Im not having any problems being heard in the mix, but, y’know, I like new toys.

After some thought, I don’t think I want to mess with the classic P tone, and something like the Entwistle will be too much. I guess what I am looking for in a pickup is P Bass authenticity. Fender CS ‘62 maybe? How does that compare to the SPB3 and my current RW stock?

And @discreet can you explain a little more about the floppy TIs? I will be coming from D’addario nickel 45s. How does the tension compare?

It’s all quite exciting to me, as I’ve realised this bass is a keeper, so I want to make it the best it can be. Before this bass I’d always been a bit puzzled when people mention about how a ‘bass is great, if only the neck was X width or Y radius’ - I’d always just adjusted to different necks quite easily and said no more about it - but the neck on this P is by some margin noticeably for comfortable and fluid and now my benchmark for splendid neckage. Now I need some cheese and some beer. 

Edited November 29, 2018 by ianrendall

[kodiakblair]

PBXN + La Bella flats = Ron Carter' tone on "The Revolution will not be Televised".

 

Tone pot rolled back of course. Was playing around with the Revelation RPBX (it sports 2 PBXN pickups) at the weekend when I thought hey-ho I know that tone.

Stuck the tune on,started playing. Bingo,nailed the tone easy.

[The59Sound]

I would say SD Antiquity if you're desperate for a pup swap. Entwistle's would be too modern IMO. 

[ianrendall]

3 hours ago, The59Sound said:

I would say SD Antiquity if you're desperate for a pup swap. Entwistle's would be too modern IMO. 

I have decided to take heed of the majority and stick with stock. They do sound great. I am going to experiment with a 47 Orange Drop though. A cheap mod and easy to undo should I not find favour with the tone. 

[fleabag]

If you go for PBXN,  for cliffs sake, dont get the PBXN magnets near any others. They're bluddy mental - believe me.

[3below]

Wait until you have the TI flats on before hitting the wallet. I will be surprised if you do not find a what you want with the standard pickups. TIs are my string of choice on a diverse range of basses.  Used on my Gibson SG bass I can get serious low end thump through to twangy-clanky. 

[kodiakblair]

38 minutes ago, fleabag said:

If you go for PBXN,  for cliffs sake, dont get the PBXN magnets near any others. They're bluddy mental - believe me.

Don't they carry a warning about keeping your fingers out the way in case they snap together 😃 

[fleabag]

They should !

If they DO snap together, have some fun getting them apart