New Mesa Walkabout-style high powered amp WD-800....and new cabs...

[Bridgehouse]

1 minute ago, Muzz said:

Straight face, confident walk. Worked for Howard Marks. Mostly.

Confident walk can be impeded by the item you are trying to bring in, and where it is located (esp if "on the body") 😁

[Muzz]

There is a perception, judging by the numbers of Class D sales not general, but some people find them lacking in what has come to be termed around here as 'heft'.

There, I said it... 😕🙂

[Muzz]

1 minute ago, Bridgehouse said:

Confident walk can be impeded by the item you are trying to bring in, and where it is located (esp if "on the body") 😁

Au contraire mon ami: even the most, erm, challenged gait can be morphed into a swagger. Ian Brown, for instance, spent an awful lot of the 90s looking like he could possibly be carrying a week's shopping internally... 🙂

[Bridgehouse]

2 minutes ago, Muzz said:

Au contraire mon ami: even the most, erm, challenged gait can be morphed into a swagger. Ian Brown, for instance, spent an awful lot of the 90s looking like he could possibly be carrying a week's shopping internally... 🙂

I challenge you to walk through customs with a Mesa D800 up yer bum and avoid any odd looks....

 

😜

[Jazzjames]

Looks nice!

For those who are skeptical about class D, check out the Quilter BB800.  I bought one to try it from Thomann, seeing as the price is so reasonable. This little thing will change your mind about what class D is capable of.  Wicked amp.

 

It is so muscular and defined.  My musical colleagues in many different bands have commented about how the sound is very present and focussed now.  It’s a joy to play through my Greenboy F112.  This combination is killer, and fits into the boot of my car without putting the seats down!

 

One of the reasons the BB800 sounds so muscular is because they focussed on getting the damping factor right for bass.  Read all about it on the Quilter website.

 

And it looks like Mesa have joined the party:

 

The new WD800 also features the Subway D800 Plus’s highly effective HIGH PASS FILTER and a new POWER AMP DAMPING control, which allow tuning of the sub-low frequencies and power response options respectively. The POWER DAMPING choices enable you to tailor the tracking and feel of the power amp. The LOW setting produces a looser, more relaxed and blooming character reminiscent of Tube power. HIGH tightens the low end, adding punch and accuracy in tracking, while MEDIUM provides a blend of these opposite ends of the power response spectrum.

 

If executed correctly, this should make this amp one of the best in the class.

[Al Krow]

👺 2 stage single tube preamp (WD 800) vs 4 stage [two?] tube preamp (Walkabout) 

🏒 1/2 the weight but more than double the power of the WA

🏒 HPF and Power Amp Damping sounds like a pretty cool feature. But tbf you can get a pedal that does that and / or provides you with para EQ (e.g. Tech 21 Q\Strip) without paying Mesa prices for an amp.

I'm a BIG Mesa fan, but struggling to persuade myself I've got an excuse to trade my Mesa M6 for the WD 800.

 

 

[Jazzjames]

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

👺 2 stage single tube preamp (WD 800) vs 4 stage [two?] tube preamp (Walkabout) 

🏒 1/2 the weight but more than double the power of the WA

🏒 HPF and Power Amp Damping sounds like a pretty cool feature. But tbf you can get a pedal that does that and / or provides you with para EQ (e.g. Tech 21 Q\Strip) without paying Mesa prices for an amp.

I'm a BIG Mesa fan, but struggling to persuade myself I've got an excuse to trade my Mesa M6 for the WD 800.

 

 

Surely a preamp pedal can’t control the damping factor of a power amp?

[LukeFRC]

On 29/11/2018 at 22:35, jacko said:

D-class with a tube. Will probably sound amazing and be as reliable as anything else on the market. Shame they've given it a bloody parametric eq. That was the one thing that made me get rid of my m-pulse 600. 

I tried the walkabout and the m- pulse 600 when getting the walkabout - I wanted to prefer the 600 but the parametric eq on that thing was really not nice to use - I found the walkabout’s parametric far more useable and musical. YMMV

13 hours ago, eude said:

That looks great, but still disappointing.

I wish amp manufacturers would focus on making proper solid state, i.e. non class D amps smaller.
Old school iron, reimagined, just like HandBox have done.
It's great having a tiny lightweight amp, but there's some undeniable sacrifices made for that weight. I appreciate that these kinks are being ironed out, but they're still not quite there.

If only Mesa had worked on making, say a 400/500W old school power stage to go in that chassis, there's likely plenty of room as that amp is way bigger than their previous class D amps, and in real world use, it would spank any 800W class D setup every single time...

Just my 2p.
Eude

But I don’t think one would apply the same logic to the more competitive world of PA - drop the active monitors and go back to passive speakers and a rack of big amps.... I think the problem is with how we have seen class D used in some in bass amps rather than the technology - yet we know that on bass forums folk really like lightweight gear ... so why spend time and money trying to solve old engineering problems? It would be like developing a new business focused app for a blackberry phone. Worthwhile, on a tech that was well liked and good - but also comnercially pointless.

[Al Krow]

51 minutes ago, Jazzjames said:

Surely a preamp pedal can’t control the damping factor of a power amp?

Preamps clearly do impact the electrical signal from the pups that the power amp amplifies (and therefore the sound that we eventually hear via the speakers).

What is the "damping factor" actually doing? Sounds like and quacks like it's a secondary HPF to me. 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Al Krow

[LukeFRC]

30 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Preamps clearly do impact the electrical signal from the pups that the power amp amplifies (and therefore the sound that we eventually hear via the speakers).

What is the "damping factor" actually doing? Sounds like and quacks like it's a secondary HPF to me. 

Damping is how well or not a power amp can stop the cone from moving 

[Al Krow]

55 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

Damping is how well or not a power amp can stop the cone from moving 

Understood. And that's exactly what an HPF such as the Thumpinator does, right? Both my taming the high energy sub-audio frequencies which are the cause of the excess cone movement.

Edited December 1, 2018 by Al Krow

[chris_b]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Understood. And that's exactly what an HPF such as the Thumpinator does, right?

No. HPF is not damping.

[Al Krow]

3 hours ago, chris_b said:

No. HPF is not damping.

Accepted. 

But its effect seems to be pretty similar in what the end result to the signal is from Mesa's description (tightening up the low end by reducing cone excursion). And hence my point that you can achieve a similar result with a HPF pedal. 

Now if someone could explain precisely what damping is doing to the output signal waveform and contrast it to HPF, I'm all ears! 

May need to put that question to Aged Horse over the pond...

[LukeFRC]

HPF is affecting the signal into the amp, damping is affecting the way the amp interacts with the speaker in interpreting that signal. 

In a car the HPF will be affecting your right foot and how hard you put it down. The damping is if you’ve got your car on eco or sport mode. 

The manual is supposed to have s good discription about it in it. 

[Al Krow]

25 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

HPF is affecting the signal into the amp, damping is affecting the way the amp interacts with the speaker in interpreting that signal. 

In a car the HPF will be affecting your right foot and how hard you put it down. The damping is if you’ve got your car on eco or sport mode. 

The manual is supposed to have s good discription about it in it. 

Nice car analogy! Always useful for simpletons like me

Taking the analogy further HPF impacts absolute speed, damping impacts responsiveness in getting to that speed? Is that fair? 

Edited December 1, 2018 by Al Krow

[LukeFRC]

51 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Nice car analogy! Always useful for simpletons like me

Taking the analogy further HPF impacts absolute speed, damping impacts responsiveness in getting to that speed? Is that fair? 

Yes - kinda - but read the manual - they describe it properly 

[Al Krow]

31 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

Yes - kinda - but read the manual - they describe it properly 

I did. Didn't really go into much more technical detail than your car analogy though. I think I've taken up enough air time on this particular point now, and should leave the floor for other BCers discussion topics on the amp... particularly as I'm not planning on getting it any time soon! 

Edited December 1, 2018 by Al Krow

[wateroftyne]

I've also just read the damping explanation in the manual. and I can see that they've pitched it as a way to get that 'furry' WA tone.

Interestingly, they say:

'With higher damping, the amp will feel a little tighter and more controlled on the bottom end, and to some players it may feel more “immediate”.'

...which is a characteristic I feel the WA has in spades, up until it starts to break up - more so than the Class D's I've tried, which I why I preferred it (and latterly the R-400).

[krispn]

The WD-800 has a great feature set which in theory would allow one to maximise the efficiency of both the head and cab between the hpf and damping. 

Its the old thing that people would complain that an amp doesn’t have a feature such as ‘tunable’ HPF and when a company adds that feature along with additional control for a damping thus offering the user a complete ‘solution’ it’s criticised as being superfluous with no actual real world use or experience of it.  😀🤣 Forums eh!!

[krispn]

I really like the feature set on this new WD-800 and as a previous WalkAbout amp user - it really is a cracking wee amp - I along with many others wondered what might become of this little fellow. 

My previous comment and this one are about the implementation of the features and tech. I have two main heads I use live - apologies for the name dropping - My Fender TB600 is about 18kg old school solid state, big tranny power section and sounds great. I’ve used the Fender MB1200 power amp in a previous rig and like the TB 600 it was immediate and had loads of head room - sounding better the louder it got. It never lacked response and was always ‘quick’ and having that kind of power and headroom does make a difference. My other gigging amp has a hypex power module mated to a tube pre amp. It is also a fantastic sounding rig and I believe the implementation of the power section and the preamp in that amp makes it just as much fun to play, just as dynamic and responsive as the tranny, solid state power section in the TB600. On a gig they both sound great!

With the WD-800 I trust/hope the engineers at Mesa have maximized the current tech to provide a really well designed and integrated pre/power section to deliver what on the surface looks like a really comprehensive fully featured amp. It should be an absolute cracker if that classic WalkAbout vibe is nailed with the higher wattage. Would I sell my current rig to get one? I certainly look forward to trying one first before passing judgement...

[Jazzjames]

On 30/11/2018 at 23:58, Al Krow said:

Preamps clearly do impact the electrical signal from the pups that the power amp amplifies (and therefore the sound that we eventually hear via the speakers).

What is the "damping factor" actually doing? Sounds like and quacks like it's a secondary HPF to me. 

No.  A HPF will simply reduce/remove lower (unnecessary) frequencies from a signal before the power amp.

The damping factor is a perameter of the power amplifier, the result being how the amplifier controls the movement of the speaker. If the amplifier doesn’t have adequate control of the speaker, it will not move as desired, either not producing the signal completely, or producing unwanted frequencies.  The practical result of this is an indistinct or mushy sound.

Read more here:

https://www.quilterlabs.com/index.php/productpage/bass-block-in-depth

Pat Quilter (from QSC) explains how a bass amplifier should operate in conjunction with modern cabs.  I appreciate that this explanation is specific to his Quilter bass amp, but he does a good job of highlighting important elements of amplifier construction and performance that are specific to bass amplification as a whole.

 

I am not an electrical engineer, but have a good ear and can appreciate the importance of this perameter.

 

I’ve used all of the main lightweight bass amps, and the Quilter nails the job for me. I’d also be interested in this new Mesa head because it looks like they’ve included some interesting new features that could prove to be really useful.

Edited December 2, 2018 by Jazzjames

[spencer.b]

Anyone know when the WD will be out in UK?

[thodrik]

On 30/11/2018 at 18:50, Al Krow said:

👺 2 stage single tube preamp (WD 800) vs 4 stage [two?] tube preamp (Walkabout) 

🏒 1/2 the weight but more than double the power of the WA

🏒 HPF and Power Amp Damping sounds like a pretty cool feature. But tbf you can get a pedal that does that and / or provides you with para EQ (e.g. Tech 21 Q\Strip) without paying Mesa prices for an amp.

I'm a BIG Mesa fan, but struggling to persuade myself I've got an excuse to trade my Mesa M6 for the WD 800.

 

 

I own a Walkabout and M6 Carbine. 

I much prefer the tone of the Walkabout. I would be tempted of getting rid of the M6 for a new higher power equivalent of the Walkabout. 

My concern is that part of the 'magic' of the original Walkabout that the tubes are used at the driver stage with the Mosfets. I'm interested to see how Mesa have approached this with a class D preamp. 

The cabs look great. A portable 2x15 would be something!

[No. 8 Wire]

12 minutes ago, thodrik said:

My concern is that part of the 'magic' of the original Walkabout that the tubes are used at the driver stage with the Mosfets. I'm interested to see how Mesa have approached this with a class D preamp. 

Walkabout owner here too. I understood this to be the case too.  I thought it was one of the reasons that the master volume also affects the DI.  As i recall there is a mod that can be done to decouple the master from the DI, but you lose some of the essential tone of the WA by doing it.  As you say, would be interesting to see if Mesa have considered this in the WD.  At the moment I think my solution to be louder would be 2 walkabouts....

[Al Krow]

35 minutes ago, No. 8 Wire said:

At the moment I think my solution to be louder would be 2 walkabouts....

This is probably a totally dozy question, but any reason you can't just add a volume boost pedal to the output of a WA (or any amp for that matter)?