Trace Elliot, tell me about it

[Deedee]

My MkIV is the best of the bunch, but for versatility/weight the SMX is great with the EQ balance etc. There's not much between this '96 SMX and the '93 model I have, although the valve blend on this one seems to sound ever so slightly better to my ears.   

Edited January 25, 2019 by Deedee
'93 not '94

[Quilly]

Question on AH/500-7. There are 2 outputs , one is a speakon the other a 1/4” jack. The min load is 4ohm...does this mean I can connect a 4 ohm cab to each output?

[Deedee]

2 minutes ago, Quilly said:

Question on AH/500-7. There are 2 outputs , one is a speakon the other a 1/4” jack. The min load is 4ohm...does this mean I can connect a 4 ohm cab to each output?

No, 8 ohm each or a single 4 ohm. I think they are there just as a connection option. 

[thodrik]

1 hour ago, Deedee said:

No, 8 ohm each or a single 4 ohm. I think they are there just as a connection option. 

Correct. The non-valve Trace heads are not 2 ohm stable.

[Deedee]

On 26/02/2019 at 18:12, Quilly said:

Question on AH/500-7. There are 2 outputs , one is a speakon the other a 1/4” jack. The min load is 4ohm...does this mean I can connect a 4 ohm cab to each output?

Thinking about it, I have a ‘Y’ cable somewhere that allows you to connect two 4 ohm cabs to a 4 ohm min amp. Not sure how the science works but it effectively makes the amp think that it is a 4 ohm load, it was made by @obbm of this parish.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Deedee

[PaulWarning]

9 hours ago, Deedee said:

Thinking about it, I have a ‘Y’ cable somewhere that allows you to connect two 4 ohm cabs to a 4 ohm min amp. Not sure how the science works but it effectively makes the amp think that it is a 4 ohm load, it was made by @obbm of this parish.

think you might find it makes in an 8 ohm load, the speakers will be wired in series not parallel, or something like that

[Deedee]

2 hours ago, PaulWarning said:

think you might find it makes in an 8 ohm load, the speakers will be wired in series not parallel, or something like that

You may well be right. I never got around to using it in the end 😟

[Quilly]

How do users feel about the scooped Enq preset options or the compressor (I have an AH-500) . I feel it can kill the sound a little ?

[thodrik]

1 hour ago, Quilly said:

How do users feel about the scooped Enq preset options or the compressor (I have an AH-500) . I feel it can kill the sound a little ?

In my opinion the pre shape needs to be re-balanced by adding some of the mids back in via the graphic EQ (say around 300-600HZ) and then taming the ultra lows (40HZ) and ultra highs to get rid of some of the built in subiness and glassiness. Once you do that you can get a number of really usable sounds. Basically I find the pre shape useful as a basis on which to sculpt a sound, rather than a sound in itself. 

In terms of of the compressor, I am afraid I have not had much experience with that amp, though I did have a similar experience to you when using the compression on the SMX 300 unit I had for a 6-7 years. After the smallest turn of the control there was already too much compression. Too much compression, not matter how good the compressor will kill the sound though so I generally don't use compression that much. 

[PaulWarning]

2 hours ago, Quilly said:

How do users feel about the scooped Enq preset options or the compressor (I have an AH-500) . I feel it can kill the sound a little ?

the presets are very seductive, they sound great when playing on your own, but if you mean the sound can get lost in a band situation I think you're right, I use a bit of overdrive (Sansamp clone) so the compressor doesn't seem to do anything

[Deedee]

I concur with the above that preshape 1 sounds great on its own but disappears in a live mix setting, but it can be used as a base sound with which to blend with the graphic. Preshape 2 however punches you in the chest (but I’m not sure if the AH500 has that)? 

Edited April 4, 2019 by Deedee
Typo

[Quilly]

27 minutes ago, thodrik said:

In my opinion the pre shape needs to be re-balanced by adding some of the mids back in via the graphic EQ (say around 300-600HZ) and then taming the ultra lows (40HZ) and ultra highs to get rid of some of the built in subiness and glassiness. Once you do that you can get a number of really usable sounds. Basically I find the pre shape useful as a basis on which to sculpt a sound, rather than a sound in itself. 

In terms of of the compressor, I am afraid I have not had much experience with that amp, though I did have a similar experience to you when using the compression on the SMX 300 unit I had for a 6-7 years. After the smallest turn of the control there was already too much compression. Too much compression, not matter how good the compressor will kill the sound though so I generally don't use compression that much. 

 

27 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

the presets are very seductive, they sound great when playing on your own, but if you mean the sound can get lost in a band situation I think you're right, I use a bit of overdrive (Sansamp clone) so the compressor doesn't seem to do anything

 

16 minutes ago, Deedee said:

I concur with the above that preshape 1 sounds great on its own but disappears in a live mix setting, but it can be used as a base sound which which to blend with the graphic. Preshape 2 however punches you in the chest (but I’m not sure if the AH500 has that)? 

That glassiness became quite annoying after a while at rehearsal last night.  I don't use the AH500 much but my valve amp is being serviced. I really need to get to grips with the settings. In the end I did just what thodrik suggested ed, I pushed up the mids a little and cut either end of the eq frequencies and turned off the compressor altogether, I found that sound a lot more 'natural' , I was able to dig in without it being 'neutered' by the compressor. Again I concur, a small level of compression still compresses too much.

[PaulWarning]

I came across this info a while ago which I found interesting

Pre-Shape 1:+6dB at 50Hz and 2kHz, -6dB at 400Hz.
Pre-Shape 2: +5dB at 100Hz, +3dB at 3kHz and -5dB at 650Hz.

[Quilly]

39 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

I came across this info a while ago which I found interesting

Pre-Shape 1:+6dB at 50Hz and 2kHz, -6dB at 400Hz.
Pre-Shape 2: +5dB at 100Hz, +3dB at 3kHz and -5dB at 650Hz.

Interesting +/- 6 db is significant (I just have one pres-shape option)

[thodrik]

4 hours ago, PaulWarning said:

I came across this info a while ago which I found interesting

Pre-Shape 1:+6dB at 50Hz and 2kHz, -6dB at 400Hz.
Pre-Shape 2: +5dB at 100Hz, +3dB at 3kHz and -5dB at 650Hz.

I never liked Pre shape 2 for some reason. I just thought it added far too much low end across a broad spectrum and actually cut the area of mids I actually wanted to boost! As with Pre Shape 1 though, you can rebalance with the graphic eq. I always thought that Pre Shape 2 benefits from a 12 band EQ. I got great sounds with it on my 12 band SMX, but really struggled with it on my 7 band GP7 SM 300 combo. Part of the problem was perhaps with the combo itself, which lent itself to a boxy, mid focused tone to begin with, so scooping mids (shock horror) actually helped balance out the sound.

On Pre Shape 1, that 6 db boost at 2k is just too severe for my tastes. 

[Deedee]

7 minutes ago, thodrik said:

I never liked Pre shape 2 for some reason. I just thought it added far too much low end across a broad spectrum and actually cut the area of mids I actually wanted to boost! As with Pre Shape 1 though, you can rebalance with the graphic eq. I always thought that Pre Shape 2 benefits from a 12 band EQ. I got great sounds with it on my 12 band SMX, but really struggled with it on my 7 band GP7 SM 300 combo. 

I used it a lot on my SMX when playing a Stingray if I felt that the sound was being lost. As you said, I'd just brighten it up as necessary using the EQ balance. Got me out of a few holes actually when struggling to get the right sound in dodgy rooms. 

[stewblack]

I'm having great fun mixing and matching cabs trying to find the sweet spot for smaller gigs. Just arrived at my hotel after a night with this set up in a pub in Swindon. 

The TE 210 honking away atop a rumbling MB 115. No idea what it sounded like out front as we didn't have a sound check. Sounded great to me from where I was standing though. 

My latest idea is to build a flat pack velcro together, dummy TE cab with a Barefaced hidden inside. Genius idea. 

If I say so myself. 

Edited April 7, 2019 by stewblack

[Quilly]

Anyone ever experience an intermittent volume drop from their TE??

[PaulWarning]

12 minutes ago, Quilly said:

Anyone ever experience an intermittent volume drop from their TE??

could be the out put transistors, mine would be ok for a bit then the volume would drop, it didn't come back till it had cooled down though

[WHUFC BASS]

25 minutes ago, Quilly said:

Anyone ever experience an intermittent volume drop from their TE??

Try giving it a whack on top of the amp. If it comes back, then you have the classic problem of the capacitors (I think), popping out of the circuit. Could be completely wrong but back in the 80s I had a head that did that and took it to TE who explained there were some cold soldered connections which would make them pop out very slightly which would reduce volume. Not sure if it's the capacitors (long time ago now) but it was something on them lines.

[Quilly]

14 minutes ago, WHUFC BASS said:

Try giving it a whack on top of the amp. If it comes back, then you have the classic problem of the capacitors (I think), popping out of the circuit. Could be completely wrong but back in the 80s I had a head that did that and took it to TE who explained there were some cold soldered connections which would make them pop out very slightly which would reduce volume. Not sure if it's the capacitors (long time ago now) but it was something on them lines.

More amp repairs 😩😩😩. I have no luck with gear !

[WHUFC BASS]

1 minute ago, Quilly said:

More amp repairs 😩😩😩. I have no luck with gear !

It's not too much of a big job. I think they did mine in about ten minutes or so. It was fine after they re-soldered the joints.

[classamin]

I bought a Trace rig about 2 years ago now to replace some of my older gear. A series6 AH200 GP12 and a mk3/mk4 1048 cabinet (not sure on mk, it's one of the ones from around the '84 Mark anyway with the wooden grille surround) and it has always sounded fantastic. It's replaced gear by the likes of Gallien Krueger, Ashdown, Mesa Boogie and it outperforms all of them by a good margin. The only reason it stays mainly in the house is because I got a sweet deal on an Ashdown ABM c210h 500 evo3 15th anniversary and it's a good deal lighter than the Trace rig. I do love both sounds, Ashdown and Trace but the Trace sounds absolutely fantastic, and if it was maybe 15kg's lighter it would be my one and only 😂 Also, see attached photo from when the Ashdown head was out for repairs and I stuck the Trace head in for sh**s and giggles. Fitted like a glove, and sounded otherworldly! 😃 If anybody ever gets offered an Ashdown combo with a goosed head, take it, and use it for the same thing I did. Those Ashdown speakers go perfectly with the Trace head! Heresy!

[Quilly]

On 28/04/2019 at 17:04, WHUFC BASS said:

It's not too much of a big job. I think they did mine in about ten minutes or so. It was fine after they re-soldered the joints.

I had a decent play with it yesterday with no issues. I discovered that some of the leads I was using were a tad faulty. So I'm hoping that's the problem. Will keep using it at rehearsals with new leads and see how I get on.

[Quilly]

2 hours ago, classamin said:

I bought a Trace rig about 2 years ago now to replace some of my older gear. A series6 AH200 GP12 and a mk3/mk4 1048 cabinet (not sure on mk, it's one of the ones from around the '84 Mark anyway with the wooden grille surround) and it has always sounded fantastic. It's replaced gear by the likes of Gallien Krueger, Ashdown, Mesa Boogie and it outperforms all of them by a good margin. The only reason it stays mainly in the house is because I got a sweet deal on an Ashdown ABM c210h 500 evo3 15th anniversary and it's a good deal lighter than the Trace rig. I do love both sounds, Ashdown and Trace but the Trace sounds absolutely fantastic, and if it was maybe 15kg's lighter it would be my one and only 😂 Also, see attached photo from when the Ashdown head was out for repairs and I stuck the Trace head in for sh**s and giggles. Fitted like a glove, and sounded otherworldly! 😃 If anybody ever gets offered an Ashdown combo with a goosed head, take it, and use it for the same thing I did. Those Ashdown speakers go perfectly with the Trace head! Heresy!

Well Mark Gooday did work at Trace..are ABMs just clones of trace heads then?