Just Curious.?

[bubinga5]

Ok so I own a Sei Jazz 5 as some might know. Probably sonically the best bass I've ever experienced.I play it through some Beyer Dynamic DT 990's so im getting a great reproduction of the instrument. The feel the weight, the neck is just out of this world comfortable. Strangely I prefer it with East preamp turned off (although I do love some beef that it gives so I do use it for certain genres so its a tool I turn on and off).But Its just perfection all across the fretboard, no dead notes, no change in volume string to string. Every note just sings with perfection clarity.

Then I watch videos of people having orgasmic (literally) experiences over StenBack and Alleva Jazz basses and I'm wondering, How, why, and what is Tom and Jimmy, Celinder etc doing to there basses that are that much better. Im sure this totally subjective, but I would like to give Tom StenBack my Sei Jazz and see how he could make it better sounding. Im genuinely interested. At nearly £6000 they are asking a lot for an instrument. There not paying NewYork renting rates apart from Jimmy of course.. My Sei with its spec would cost £3600. I just cannot see where the extra £2000+ goes into which is essentially a Jazz Bass.And its just painted. Its not like its got a sexy cocobolo top multi laminated crushed maple, 200 piece neck with gold inlays.  Im not knocking them im just genuinely curious. Like I said what on earth would Tom Stenback do to my Sei to make it feel and sound better.. Maybe build it again from scratch.? 😂

Edited December 11, 2018 by bubinga5

[Chiliwailer]

Good question, and I genuinely haven’t a clue. Maybe it’s the wood selection, maybe the time they put into it. 

Or,  (in a purely fun way) the cynic in me says maybe it’s...

 

[taunton-hobbit]

Because (someone) can..................

😎

[peteb]

You are talking about the difference between one expensive hand made bass and another (even more) expensive hand made bass. It is all going to be down to minor details and (specially) personal preference. 

I've just seen a Paul Turner video on YouTube talking about his Stenback Basses and it seems that he is looking for clarity and a modern bass with vintage tones. It is obviously a great bass but would it make that much difference to you and me, let alone a punter! If you want an active bass but with a more vintage sound then perhaps you should think of replacing the East preamp with something like an EWS tri-logic? Either way, I wouldn't be seriously considering shelling out money to re-build a Sei bass...! 

[thodrik]

I think you did a very similar topic to this a few months ago, except looking at Sadowsky as a price comparison point rather than Alleva, etc.

You aren’t really going to find anything new other than you still really like your bass and that you can buy a Sei bass for less than another version of a high end Jazz bass made by a different manufacturer in a different country. 

 

 

 

[bubinga5]

9 minutes ago, thodrik said:

I think you did a very similar topic to this a few months ago, except looking at Sadowsky as a price comparison point rather than Alleva, etc.

You aren’t really going to find anything new other than you still really like your bass and that you can buy a Sei bass for less than another version of a high end Jazz bass made by a different manufacturer in a different country. 

 

 

 

Don't we all love the member with a great memory to remind you what you had forgotten you had posted. 

[thodrik]

No problem!

At least it isn’t a certain other bass forum where every other thread has a passive aggressive first response of ‘Do a search before you post buddy because we already covered this in a sub-discussion in random other thread 36 1/2 months ago’. 

[chrisbass13]

You mentioned Celinder in your initial post...about a year ago, someone was selling a Celinder Update 4 in my town. As these basses sort of have a mythical reputation I was curious and went ahead to test it, but I wasnt really in search of a new bass. After playing the first few notes I was...it wasnt set up very well, and the amp was a little markbass practice amp, but I could tell right away that this bass was something special. Two days later I stopped by and picked it up. I have played some amazing jazz basses old and boutique, owned some great ones as well (Atelier Z, Sadowsky etc.) but this Celinder is something else. I dont know if thats the case with all Celinders or maybe this one is just a lucky coincidence. Its hard to describe, but every note is just super alive, no deadspots, the E String sounds so much fuller and punchier than on any other bass. The neck feels amazing and the sound is like a mastered studio recording. I still have an Atelier Z 5 String that I play a lot and its also an incdredible bass with a great sound and action as low as you want, perfect workmanship etc....but the Celinder is still a step above...and I really dont believe in mojo and magic fairy dust...tested some bad pre cbs j-basses in the past and well known boutique brands that were nice but not that special besides good fretwork, fit and finish. So does Chris Celinder have a special secret? I dont know...this bass is made out of ash and maple, has singecoils and a jazz bass design. Not too uncommon in the bass world ;-)                                                                  

[ianrendall]

Regarding Sadowsky, there is an $1800 disparity between the NYC Satins starting at $2900 and the proper NYCs starting at $4700. This difference can be explained in a few ways. The first is obviously the gloss finish and the satin finish. That’ll save a few bucks sure. The others I actually emailed Roger and asked him to explain, as I was looking to order one. He said (my question in italics)

‘The website states that the bridge and tuners on the Satin are the same as on the MetroLine series. How do these differ from the NYC range?

The only difference is they are made in Korea and not in the USA.

The website also mentions that the Satins use a prewired preamp, whereas the NYC basses are hand wired. Do the two preamps differ in function?

The preamps are identical.  The preamp in the Satins is the same one we sell on our webstore. 

We could just as easily use this on our NYC Custom Built, but we feel for $5000+, the customer deserves a hand wired control cavity.

What enables us to make the Satins at a significantly lower price is the lack of custom options.  We do sell additional pickguards for $75.’

So is that lot worth an extra $1800?

[thepurpleblob]

You can buy a really nice Jazz bass for about 300 quid. After that it's ALL diminishing returns - we all know this. You're paying for small things that cost loads and add little. 

My go-to bass is a USA Lakland. It was bloody expensive. Do I think it's better because it is or because I know what I paid so convince myself it is? 

[ianrendall]

Some people lay down serious cash for an instrument because they believe, and so they should, that they are getting a bass of the highest quality. 

For others it can be a form of hero worship. They see or hear it for the first time in the hands of some bass lord and that’s it. GAS. I fall into this category and I blame Walter Becker and Will Lee for my Sadowsky GAS.

The first time I knowingly heard a Ken Smith though, was just a few weeks ago, and I could hear the quality just oozing from my headphones. It was quite an eye opener. But I know that if I got a Smith, my Sadowsky GAS would remain. It is an itch I have to scratch. 

Edited December 20, 2018 by ianrendall

[chris_b]

56 minutes ago, thepurpleblob said:

You can buy a really nice Jazz bass for about 300 quid.

Can you? I can't!

I would love to release the cash tied up in my instruments so I regularly check out cheaper basses. A couple of months ago I went to Andertons and tried all their Sire and Fender 5 string basses and while they will certainly be someone's pride and joy, I haven't found one that sounds or plays as well as my current £1500 bass. Not even close.

So what makes a better bass? What makes one bass more expensive than another? How can someone appreciate a more expensive bass over a cheaper one?

IMO for basses the answer is, the quality and build of the components, the ability of the guy making it, the time he can devote to making it and the sound it makes. We all have preferences, so for me the diminishing returns rule depends entirely on the instrument, but I guess starts slowly at about £1000 and really kicks in at £2000.

[chris_b]

Just now, chris_b said:

A couple of months ago I went to Andertons and tried all their Sire and Fender 5 string basses and while they will certainly be someone's pride and joy, I haven't found one that sounds or plays as well as my current £1500 bass. Not even close.

Having said that, I went to Guitar Guitar in Epsom and tried a brand new Sadowsky Satin bass they had in store. I thought my Metro sounded better. So it's all about personal preference and what you can and can't hear in a bass.

[TrevorR]

On 11/12/2018 at 20:03, bubinga5 said:

Probably sonically the best bass I've ever experienced.I play it through some Beyer Dynamic DT 990's so im getting a great reproduction of the instrument. The feel the weight, the neck is just out of this world comfortable. Strangely I prefer it with East preamp turned off (although I do love some beef that it gives so I do use it for certain genres so its a tool I turn on and off).But Its just perfection all across the fretboard, no dead notes, no change in volume string to string. Every note just sings with perfection clarity.

This is the paragraph you should be focusing on. The questions you are asking yourself are, no offence intended, a mug's game simply because there is no definitive, scientifically verifiable answer. For the player taste comes into it as much as spec. As does the psychological need to self-justify the expense of the purchase when it comes down to YouTube videos (the posting of which surely has to be a somewhat narcissistic thing anyway).

Here's the thing, I can spend hours explaining why Wals cost twice as much as Seis and take 2 years to build - almost entirely custom made parts instead of off the shelf hardware, quality of woods, cost of time from non automated handcrafting, length of settling time between processes, overheads, choice of rate fo return on each bass blah de blah de blah... That doesn't change the fact that Seis are one of the world's finest built basses or the validity of your paragraph quoted above. Or make a Wal better suited to you as a player. Once you get to these price points there is also a complex mix of the makers pricing their time and components and simply charging what the market will bear given the reputation and desirability of their brand. Each will come up with a different formula that suits them.

Then there's personal preference... give me a £5+ grand Warwick Masterbuilt bass and I can pretty much guarantee I'd hate it. I just have never found a Warwick I like to play, whether its the old style or more modern necks. I've played a few £1.5k Sandbergs and Maruwotsits and never found one I didn't absolutely love. Whether you love and connect to a bass is the more important thing in my book, rather than price or some sort of "desirability" factor.

[BigRedX]

It's totally subjective. Stop worrying about it.

Martin makes some very nice basses but they are not to everyone's taste.

[Sibob]

There is no 'better', there is only what you like. If you fell utterly in love with a Stenback, you would pay the price to get one. As it happens, you fell in love with a Sei and it was cheaper.......there's nothing more to it than that.

Si

[timhiggins]

I have had a lot of 1000 plus jazz bass's in the past and moved them on [bar 1] as for me they were in no way superior to my 

sire v7 or my mex fender ,i do still have a mij 75 reissue and an american standard that are both great but my main bass is actually my mex with j retro pre

which i too play predominately passive ...

i would never pay 6000 for a bass and i'm yet to hear one that justify's the price tag.

[Lfalex v1.1]

Are you listening to these other basses through your headphones too?

How were they recorded? Maybe someone had access to a really nice compressor and knows how to use it subtly but to good effect? 

There are just too many variables to make a definitive judgement until you've got access to all of these basses and can play them through your equipment. And even then, as always, YMMV.

I also find that Headphone listening is very revealing of on-board EQs. I run my Vigier with it off for that very reason. It's by no means poor, but it's better switched off.

 

 

[ped]

3 hours ago, ianrendall said:

Some people lay down serious cash for an instrument because they believe, and so they should, that they are getting a bass of the highest quality. 

For others it can be a form of hero worship. They see or hear it for the first time in the hands of some bass lord and that’s it. GAS. I fall into this category and I blame Walter Becker and Will Lee for my Sadowsky GAS.

The first time I knowingly heard a Ken Smith though, was just a few weeks ago, and I could hear the quality just oozing from my headphones. It was quite an eye opener. But I know that if I got a Smith, my Sadowsky GAS would remain. It is an itch I have to scratch. 

Agree with the last bit  (although I have no GAS for a Jazz, had so many and always end up selling them)