Bass gear in order of importance

[Beedster]

I realised this evening that, possibly for the first time I can remember, my (one) Ampeg/Mesa bass rig is worth more than my (five) bass guitars put together. This is largely down to my having spent about two years building, unbuilding and reconfiguring Fender-fit bitsas, usually from Warmoth, Allparts and similar parts bought used either here or on eBay. It also got me to thinking that I've now got a pretty clear system for my gear, that certain things really matter to me and that certain other things really don't. Thought I'd share the list

 

Things that really matter:

1. Neck: the neck to me is the most important part of the whole system; if it doesn't feel right, I don't play right, and I don't enjoy playing. I'm a better player on basses with necks I like. I play 1-11/16" nut Precision necks on both Precision and Jazz basses. Jazz Basses are a different beast with a substantial Precision neck. 

2. Strings: wrong strings, wrong tone and more effort required, making playing less fund. Nothing else in the signal chain makes up for it

3. Tuners: doesn't matter how good the tone and playability if it creeps out of tune. Amazing how many tuners can't hold tuning, even some quite expensive ones. Amazing how irritating an instrument going out of tune can be. 

4. Amp head: wrong choice can make an expensive bass sound crap. A good choice can make a relatively cheap bass sound good. This is not the place to skimp on cost. Or weight. 

5. PUPs: it took me a long time and a lot of convincing that PUPs define the tone almost as much as the head and the strings, but the right PUP for the sound makes playing effortless and puts a smile on the player and the band's faces. 

 

Things that really don't seem to matter:

6. Cabs: never seem to make as much difference as the head, differences between expensive and cheap never seem to justify the cost of the former

7. Circuit: with a decent bass, strings and head, I just don't use the circuit on any of my basses, might as well run the PUPs straight to the output jack!

8. Bridge: despite years of trying them all, the only thing that matters is that you can get the right action and alignment. Tone metals? High mass? Never noticed an effect. 

9. Body wood. Still find it amazing that people talk endlessly about tone woods. Change any of the neck, PUPs, strings and the tone changes significantly. I've yet to find two different bodies that sounded significantly different when fitted with the same components, and I've done a lot of experimentation.

 

So, looking at my current basses, I realise that about 50-60% of the total value is in the necks, around 20% in PUPs (which I tend to buy new as I've found too many PUPs bought used have issues), the rest split variously between bodies, tuners, bridges, circuits etc. As mentioned, I've five basses, three Precisions (one fretless) and two Jazzes (again one fretless). Total cost was a tad under £1500 for the lot. I'd put most of them in Fender MIA territory in terms of build quality, playability and tone, with two in CS territory (the two fretless). Makes you realise just how much we pay for the names on the headstocks. Having said this, I have to thank Leo Fender however for making it so bloody easy to mix and match parts of Fender-alike instruments 

Edited December 14, 2018 by Beedster

[LeftyJ]

I think to me this order is pretty accurate, but I disagree on the bridge and electronics part. Though not as important as your top 5, I think these do matter a lot.

Different bridges will alter the tone of an instrument. When I changed the standard bent-plate bridge of my Jazz Bass to a Badass II, it changed the tone dramatically. The bass' tone brightened up a lot, with tighter lows and more harmonics. 

Many active circuits will colour your tone even when set to flat. Not dramatically, but noticably. Again from personal experience: when I changed the passive electronics in that same Jazz Bass to an Audere JZ3 onboard preamp, I loved it at first. Loads of tonal possibilities, and the impedance switch seemed like fun. But within weeks I found it wasn't for me, up to the point that I wasn't playing that particular bass anymore, even though it had always been a favourite. I changed it back to mostly passive, with just a switchable bass boost, and it's perfect for me now! It's mostly just set-and-forget for me, and if it gets overly finicky or doesn't sound the way I want to, it gets in the way of my playing and I lose interest in the instrument. 

[ped]

I think pickup position is the biggest factor. A few MM in either direction radically changes the tone in a way that cannot be mimicked with EQ or anything else.

For example how different does a P sound to a J, with otherwise very similar construction? Or how different does the front pickup sound to the back in a J?

[Happy Jack]

I don't have a few Musicmen, but I get your drift. 

[Reggaebass]

1 hour ago, LeftyJ said:

I think to me this order is pretty accurate, but I disagree on the bridge and electronics part. Though not as important as your top 5, I think these do matter a lot.

Different bridges will alter the tone of an instrument. When I changed the standard bent-plate bridge of my Jazz Bass to a Badass II, it changed the tone dramatically. The bass' tone brightened up a lot, with tighter lows and more harmonics. 

Many active circuits will colour your tone even when set to flat. Not dramatically, but noticably. Again from personal experience: when I changed the passive electronics in that same Jazz Bass to an Audere JZ3 onboard preamp, I loved it at first. Loads of tonal possibilities, and the impedance switch seemed like fun. But within weeks I found it wasn't for me, up to the point that I wasn't playing that particular bass anymore, even though it had always been a favourite. I changed it back to mostly passive, with just a switchable bass boost, and it's perfect for me now! It's mostly just set-and-forget for me, and if it gets overly finicky or doesn't sound the way I want to, it gets in the way of my playing and I lose interest in the instrument. 

LeftyJ  how did you fit a switchable bass boost to a passive jazz, I like this idea 🙂

[dmccombe7]

For me and this was harder to decide on than i first thought after reading your original post. Was quite fun tho.

1.   neck has to feel right and makes me think i'm playing better.

2.   pick ups. I've tried various styles of pick ups ie Jazz, Precision and Humbuckers and def prefer the sound of Jazz style pick ups.

3.   Amp - its taken me many years to find an amp head that i just love the tone having gone thru all valve to SS to class D and back to tube / SS Mesa head.

4.   Cab - again i've tried many cabs and come to the conclusion that the depth of a cab has a large influence on its overall tone. I like a tone that i feel as well as hear. Gone thru the 412 cabs, 215 cabs both front facing and reflex, 210, 410 & 810 cabs, 112 lightweight cabs and variations on them incl my Berg HT322 (12, 2X10's & horn) and finally settling on my Mesa PH212 which has a wonderful warm clear tone that surrounds me when i'm playing. Great depth of tone yet retains its clear mids

5.   Strings are important but i can get by on most nickel strings as long as they aren't too old. D'addario nickels changed every 2-3mths depending on use.

DOESN'T MATTER :-

1.   Active circuits - i have them and apart from my Overwater i still tend to run my basses flat when it comes to the actives. That's probably one of the reasons i prefer my Jazz bass most.

2.   Effects pedals :- tried them and eventually end up sticking with my straight bass sound with exception of a touch of compressor pedal if my amp doesn't already have it but i can get by without the compression. I just find it balances my volume a bit more especially when i get carried away in the moment and i start playing very hard with my right hand.

Dave

Edited December 15, 2018 by dmccombe7

[Al Krow]

12 hours ago, Beedster said:

Things that really don't seem to matter:

6. Cabs: never seem to make as much difference as the head, differences between expensive and cheap never seem to justify the cost of the former

COMPLETELY disagree!  A great cab makes a BIG difference over a mediocre one to the sound.

[deepbass5]

I agree with you on a lot of this but think this is better split into

what makes a difference, and what you need for comfort - your crotch to allow you to concentrate on the music. On the latter the neck feel and string spacing is number one for me

Two points for me i disagree on,  Bridge mass - had an old P bass and installed a Badass It was noticeably a different instrument after that. So can make a difference

The other is Cabs, I have had good and bad, too many companies compromise on cab design and construction to fit models into price brackets. Even reputable companies ? produce top of the range cabs and lets say high street range ? why ?  If they  are serious about doing the right thing by you the consumer a great cab should be based on physics alone will probably be big and possibly heavy. 

anyway most of this has been covered by Bill and Max on here.  I wish Basschat had been around when i started out before GAS took hold

 

[Lozz196]

Most important for me are pretty simply, a Fender Precision strung with fresh steel roundwound strings and a Tech21 Para Driver. 

Yes the neck is important to me - I do like a chunker - as are efficient tuners and passive electrics but as long as I have said Precision, strings and Para Driver I’m sorted.

[mikel]

I disagree re cabs. Try an A-B test with a 1 x 15 or 4 x 10 Hartke, and a 1970s Marshal 4 x 12. Chalk and cheese re tone, volume and attack.

For me its Instrument, strings, amp, cab.

Edited December 15, 2018 by mikel

[gjones]

In my experience, if you don't have a decent bass cab then everything else is irrelevant. I've had some cheapo bass cabs in the past that really couldn't keep up with a loudish drummer. I slowly upgraded to TC Electronics then Ashdown ABM cabs. But it was only when I bought a Barefaced Compact, that I then had a cab with the fidelity and power handling capabilities that allowed me to reproduce the sound that was coming from my bass and amp, to my satisfaction.

[Muzz]

OK, I'm gonna be the first to say it: if I don't like how a bass looks, I won't engage with it, and I'll sell it.

Woods (with the influence of the above - for example, I don't like the look of rosewood boards) aren't important, mostly everything else is, in one way or another...

[Beedster]

3 hours ago, LeftyJ said:

I think to me this order is pretty accurate, but I disagree on the bridge and electronics part. Though not as important as your top 5, I think these do matter a lot.

Different bridges will alter the tone of an instrument. When I changed the standard bent-plate bridge of my Jazz Bass to a Badass II, it changed the tone dramatically. The bass' tone brightened up a lot, with tighter lows and more harmonics. 

Many active circuits will colour your tone even when set to flat. Not dramatically, but noticably. Again from personal experience: when I changed the passive electronics in that same Jazz Bass to an Audere JZ3 onboard preamp, I loved it at first. Loads of tonal possibilities, and the impedance switch seemed like fun. But within weeks I found it wasn't for me, up to the point that I wasn't playing that particular bass anymore, even though it had always been a favourite. I changed it back to mostly passive, with just a switchable bass boost, and it's perfect for me now! It's mostly just set-and-forget for me, and if it gets overly finicky or doesn't sound the way I want to, it gets in the way of my playing and I lose interest in the instrument. 

I totally agree that circuits can make a difference, but not that they're needed if other factors, especially PUPs and head, are OK (when I used to use active circuits it was all too often compensating for one or both). I generally don't touch the controls at all these days, even on Jazzes, normally all controls fully clockwise, perhaps neck rolled back a little.  

Bridges can make a difference for sure, but again I think there are easier ways to get the tone you want via PUPs and strings. I play mostly flats and I rarely find any difference between bridges once action etc is sorted. However, I think what I should have also said in the first post was 'also in the case of roundwounds I've rarely noticed a positive effect'. I've found that a high mass bridge, to my ear at least, can make a bass with rounds sound quite a lot more harsh/brittle than a BBOT. The only exception is on fretless, where I've found a higher mass bridge can - but doesn't always - enhance the sustain and clarity a little.  

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

COMPLETELY disagree!  A great cab makes a BIG difference over a mediocre one to the sound.

Yes, I suspect that putting cabs at the top of the 'Don't seem to matter' list was partly the beer's fault, and partly a function of the fact that I was thinking about some specific scenarios (having said this, I'd still keep cabs at 6th in the list). I think my reasoning goes back to using good heads through relatively average cabs at rehearsal studios over the years, which seemed more often than not to result in a decent tone (for example my Walkabout sounded great no matter what cab it went though). This contrast with the odd occasion when I've used poor heads through good cabs, but on reflection, given the direction of the signal path, that's perhaps not a fair test. 

 

Edited December 15, 2018 by Beedster

[Beedster]

3 hours ago, ped said:

I think pickup position is the biggest factor. A few MM in either direction radically changes the tone in a way that cannot be mimicked with EQ or anything else.

For example how different does a P sound to a J, with otherwise very similar construction? Or how different does the front pickup sound to the back in a J?

Yep, that should perhaps have been number 2 now I think about it, put the PUP in the wrong space and most of the rest fails

[Beedster]

25 minutes ago, Muzz said:

OK, I'm gonna be the first to say it: if I don't like how a bass looks, I won't engage with it, and I'll sell it.

Woods (with the influence of the above - for example, I don't like the look of rosewood boards) aren't important, mostly everything else is, in one way or another...

Yep, on the I have to admit that aesthetics really get to me also 😉

[Muzz]

I'm glad to know it's not just me being as shallow as a puddle, then 😀

[dmccombe7]

2 minutes ago, Muzz said:

I'm glad to know it's not just me being as shallow as a puddle, then 😀

Nope i never even gave that a 2nd thought but it really should be top of the list as no-one is gonna buy an ugly looking bass.

Well done that man.

Dave

[LeftyJ]

2 hours ago, Reggaebass said:

LeftyJ  how did you fit a switchable bass boost to a passive jazz, I like this idea 🙂

I'm using a De Gier / Vanderkley FatBoost in my Jazz. It's likely the only one around, as they usually come with a De Gier Bebop bass attached 😉. It's one from the first run, with a fixed 6 dB boost. Newer ones are variable between 4 and 9 dB. It's activated by a rotary switch, a 4th control knob on the control plate. 

Edited December 15, 2018 by LeftyJ

[Rich]

I would disagree on the importance of cabs. When I replaced my last Peavey 4x10 with an SWR Triad, the quality and richness of my bass tone went through the roof. That Triad was the single best cab I've ever had, apart from its 98lb weight

[mikel]

4 hours ago, Muzz said:

OK, I'm gonna be the first to say it: if I don't like how a bass looks, I won't engage with it, and I'll sell it.

Woods (with the influence of the above - for example, I don't like the look of rosewood boards) aren't important, mostly everything else is, in one way or another...

If I didnt like how a bass looked I wouldnt buy it in the first place.

[paul_5]

The feel of the neck is paramount, you’ll spend all of your playing time holding it, so it better be a good ‘un.

Next for me is strings, then pickups and body wood in equal measure.

 

 

[acidbass]

Agree with all of your points except the bridge being unimportant. The traditional Fender bridge where the saddles sit atop the base plate is a completely obsolete design IMO. In modern times manufacturers are making bridges where the saddle height screws are fixed into little channels, which is a much better design from an engineering perspective as it reduces the horizontal movement of the saddles and therefore can only benefit string vibration. I have this type of bridge on all my basses,

[chris_b]

For me, bass gear in order of importance is bass, cabs then amps.

The bass is what I'm personally connected to. As the most important piece of the signal-chain is me, making me play better is what a better bass will do. As long as I'm playing well I can "carry" any issues with gear or sound.

The cabs are my interface with the audience. Everything else in the signal chain can be good or bad but if the cab is bad then nothing sounds good.

IMO amps are the least important part of the chain. These days most amps are built to a standard that won't make anyone sound bad. I haven't yet heard an amp that I couldn't get a reasonable sound out of.

[mcnach]

On 14/12/2018 at 23:00, Beedster said:

I realised this evening that, possibly for the first time I can remember, my (one) Ampeg/Mesa bass rig is worth more than my (five) bass guitars put together. This is largely down to my having spent about two years building, unbuilding and reconfiguring Fender-fit bitsas, usually from Warmoth, Allparts and similar parts bought used either here or on eBay. It also got me to thinking that I've now got a pretty clear system for my gear, that certain things really matter to me and that certain other things really don't. Thought I'd share the list

 

Things that really matter:

1. Neck: the neck to me is the most important part of the whole system; if it doesn't feel right, I don't play right, and I don't enjoy playing. I'm a better player on basses with necks I like. I play 1-11/16" nut Precision necks on both Precision and Jazz basses. Jazz Basses are a different beast with a substantial Precision neck. 

2. Strings: wrong strings, wrong tone and more effort required, making playing less fund. Nothing else in the signal chain makes up for it

3. Tuners: doesn't matter how good the tone and playability if it creeps out of tune. Amazing how many tuners can't hold tuning, even some quite expensive ones. Amazing how irritating an instrument going out of tune can be. 

4. Amp head: wrong choice can make an expensive bass sound crap. A good choice can make a relatively cheap bass sound good. This is not the place to skimp on cost. Or weight. 

5. PUPs: it took me a long time and a lot of convincing that PUPs define the tone almost as much as the head and the strings, but the right PUP for the sound makes playing effortless and puts a smile on the player and the band's faces. 

 

Things that really don't seem to matter:

6. Cabs: never seem to make as much difference as the head, differences between expensive and cheap never seem to justify the cost of the former

7. Circuit: with a decent bass, strings and head, I just don't use the circuit on any of my basses, might as well run the PUPs straight to the output jack!

8. Bridge: despite years of trying them all, the only thing that matters is that you can get the right action and alignment. Tone metals? High mass? Never noticed an effect. 

9. Body wood. Still find it amazing that people talk endlessly about tone woods. Change any of the neck, PUPs, strings and the tone changes significantly. I've yet to find two different bodies that sounded significantly different when fitted with the same components, and I've done a lot of experimentation.

 

So, looking at my current basses, I realise that about 50-60% of the total value is in the necks, around 20% in PUPs (which I tend to buy new as I've found too many PUPs bought used have issues), the rest split variously between bodies, tuners, bridges, circuits etc. As mentioned, I've five basses, three Precisions (one fretless) and two Jazzes (again one fretless). Total cost was a tad under £1500 for the lot. I'd put most of them in Fender MIA territory in terms of build quality, playability and tone, with two in CS territory (the two fretless). Makes you realise just how much we pay for the names on the headstocks. Having said this, I have to thank Leo Fender however for making it so bloody easy to mix and match parts of Fender-alike instruments 

 

This thread is not super-recent, but it's interesting... so here goes:

 

I don't entirely agree with some of your matters/matters not, although I generally agree.

 

THINGS THAT MATTER TO YOU:

I do agree about the neck... it's probably the one single factor that can make or break an instrument for me. It can sound amazing, but if it doesn't feel right it's never going to be a favourite. However, if the neck is just right for me and it's overall nice, but lacks a bit sound-wise, I may be keen to try changing pickups or something to see if I can improve it.

Strings: very important. They can affect the feel and the sound greatly. Not long ago I bought a Schecter Model T, unseen, unplayed... complete impulse buy based on looks, my idea of what it might be like (PJ with active EMG pickups and preamp), and a few videos by a guy who plays that bass. It was a disappointment at first. The neck was just the kind of neck I like, not far off my Stingray's, nice weight and balance, but the sound... was not right. Because it felt so nice, I didn't return it straight away and I tried one of my favourite strings (DR Sunbeams)... and it transformed it. I not only kept it, but I probably played 80% of my gigs over the following 9 months with it.

Tuners: I can't say I've encountered bad tuners except for the lowest of the low instruments, and even then, most were still functional. I can't stand instruments that go out of tune easily. But I just haven't found many problematic tuners. Badly cut nuts that stick? That's much more common, and lead to tuning stability issues for sure. 

Amp head... yes, it matters. It matters a great deal, but not as much as cabs. 

Pickups: I agree with you there... the trouble is finding which pickups work best with a given bass. There are some pickups I generally like, and they're a good starting point, but they can sound quite different when installed in different instruments. It's quite remarkable. 

 

THINGS THAT DON'T MATTER SO MUCH TO YOU:

Cabs: To me they matter a lot. I can generally get a decent sound out of any amplifier if paired with a good set of cabs. The reverse is harder, in my opinion. Of course, the importance is not that big when I'm DI'd and my amplifier becomes merely a glorified stage monitor. Still... having a nice controllable sound onstage makes for a better playing experience, and in turn it affects the way I play. But hey, I once played an outdoor festival where my bass was plugged into a tiny 30W Gorilla practice amp, from whose Line Out socket a cable was fed into the desk. I could hear nothing onstage... just the vaguest of rumbles that made it to my ears from their main amplification... it still worked  

Cabs are very important to me, for those gigs without PA support, and so that I get a good onstage sound for monitoring purposes when I do have PA support. The amplifier head is next in importance.

Circuit: It matters a lot to me. On passive basses, the choice of pots/capacitor changes a lot the sounds I can get from them. I use the tone control a lot on passive basses. On active basses... same, since I do use the EQ on them. Passive tone controls are very nice, for me, and I love active semiparametric mids too... Ideally I'd have a passive tone control (to remove treble when required) and a mids control with a wide range of frequencies to choose from, just to accentuate or tame a bit certain frequencies.

Bridge? Totally agree with you. I only care for function. I can't say I've noticed a significant effect that I can attribute to having changed the bridge, and I've changed a few. (edit: I have noticed a change sometimes, but I had also changed the setup somewhat -saddle heights, pickup heights-, and sometimes removed/reattached the neck... so I could not say what I thought I heard was because of the bridge. Also, the change was not necessarily a good one, when moving to chunkier bridges)

Wood? Same. Different instruments sound a little different. No question. But is it because of maple vs rosewood fingerboards? Or the ash body? One of the best sounding Jazz basses I ever had (and still have, for that reason) was a cheap Squier with a body made of low quality laminate chipboard type of of thing... I needed to slightly enlarge the bridge pickup route to install a new pickup and that thing crumbled under my chisel... It sounds great now, 'though! Four Fenders (three 75RI and a RoadWorn) and several others from different makes were all sold while the Squier with the hideous body material stayed.

 

On the whole, the instrument matters most to me. While a meh bass can still sound good on a good amplifier, and the best of basses will never sound good on a mediocre amplifier... I 'bond' more with the instrument, and I need it to be special: the neck profile, dimension, balance, the way it plays unplugged, the sound and how it responds to the onboard controls... that's where I spend time trying to get it right. The amplifier and cabs are also important, but I can happily play through a variety of amplifiers, while the bass seems more 'personal' somehow. 

Edited January 3, 2019 by mcnach

[mcnach]

On 15/12/2018 at 10:10, ped said:

I think pickup position is the biggest factor. A few MM in either direction radically changes the tone in a way that cannot be mimicked with EQ or anything else.

For example how different does a P sound to a J, with otherwise very similar construction? Or how different does the front pickup sound to the back in a J?

 

Oh, and that! Of course, the basic type of sound comes from where the pickup is placed, more than the kind of pickup.

You can try a variety of pickups at the Precision sweet spot, and they can sound quite different, but retain a certain "precisiony" type of vibe. Same with a Stingray. I emptied much of the cavity under the pickguard of an old OLP MM2 (Stingray copy) to play with pickup positions and different types... it was remarkable. I wish I had recorded the various combinations!