Preamp to increase output of combo?

[surfguy13]

This is probably a very stupid question but I have an Ampeg BA-115 Mk1 combo and as with many BA Ampegs it is seriously underpowered.  My old USA B3 that I had for many years was also very underpowered.  I just use it at home but even so it definitely doesn't quite give me the volume I need without turning the gain right up and even if I max out gain and master it still falls short..  I probably need to buy another combo or head/cab to resolve this but noticed an Eden preamp on Ebay today and just wondered if this might give me a a bit of a boost?  I've never used any sort of pedal with bass and certainly not a preamp pedal.  I suspect that putting a preamp in front of the preamp in the combo may not be a good idea but....................

[ahpook]

It's possible you might get some increase in volume if your bass has a low output, but I think you're most likely to end up driving the preamp into distortion rather than getting any real increase in volume.

 

[surfguy13]

50 minutes ago, ahpook said:

It's possible you might get some increase in volume if your bass has a low output, but I think you're most likely to end up driving the preamp into distortion rather than getting any real increase in volume.

 

That was exactly what I was thinking.  I definitely don't want more gain, just volume.  Really appreciate the advice and I guess I will stick to plan A and keep on looking for a new amp!!! 

[Frank Blank]

1 minute ago, surfguy13 said:

That was exactly what I was thinking.  I definitely don't want more gain, just volume.  Really appreciate the advice and I guess I will stick to plan A and keep on looking for a new amp!!! 

You do realise this is your chance to change your bass life forever and move over to an FRFR solution?

[Al Krow]

3 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

You do realise this is your chance to change your bass life forever and move over to an FRFR solution?

Frank I love your convert's zeal! But have you seen what @Bridgehousehas recently dragged in with the cats? He is single handedly (well with both hands and a fork lift truck) rescuing rock n roll. Just in time for Christmas 😀

[Mudpup]

1 hour ago, surfguy13 said:

This is probably a very stupid question but I have an Ampeg BA-115 Mk1 combo and as with many BA Ampegs it is seriously underpowered.  My old USA B3 that I had for many years was also very underpowered.  I just use it at home but even so it definitely doesn't quite give me the volume I need without turning the gain right up and even if I max out gain and master it still falls short..  I probably need to buy another combo or head/cab to resolve this but noticed an Eden preamp on Ebay today and just wondered if this might give me a a bit of a boost?  I've never used any sort of pedal with bass and certainly not a preamp pedal.  I suspect that putting a preamp in front of the preamp in the combo may not be a good idea but....................

If you've got everything flat out and its still not enough for home use then i would suspect somethings not right with the combo itself. Unless you live in isolation somewhere 😉

[surfguy13]

44 minutes ago, Mudpup said:

If you've got everything flat out and its still not enough for home use then i would suspect somethings not right with the combo itself. Unless you live in isolation somewhere 😉

Well, relative isolation!!  However, I think a lot of it is due to the fact that Ampeg seems to make very conservative combos.  The amp appears to be functioning perfectly but, as you say, there could well be an issue.  Had it not been for the B3 being equally underpowered I would have assumed it was a fault.  It's OK'ish with both gain and master flat out but I really don't like having the gain that high.

[Frank Blank]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

Frank I love your convert's zeal! But have you seen what @Bridgehousehas recently dragged in with the cats? He is single handedly (well with both hands and a fork lift truck) rescuing rock n roll. Just in time for Christmas 😀

As I was typing it I was (genuinely) thinking I’m becoming a bit of a pain in the behind convert zealot, although this is an ideal time to go FRFR I also think it’s possibly time for me to shut up about it. I haven’t seen his latest acquisition but heading over now.

[Bridgehouse]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Frank I love your convert's zeal! But have you seen what @Bridgehousehas recently dragged in with the cats? He is single handedly (well with both hands and a fork lift truck) rescuing rock n roll. Just in time for Christmas 😀

Rock and roll well and truly rescued. My back, is however, ruined. 

As are my windows, radiators, furniture and anything else that rattles. 

I really am now a sad parody of myself

[Bridgehouse]

1 hour ago, Frank Blank said:

As I was typing it I was (genuinely) thinking I’m becoming a bit of a pain in the behind convert zealot, although this is an ideal time to go FRFR I also think it’s possibly time for me to shut up about it. I haven’t seen his latest acquisition but heading over now.

Hope you had a few fingers covering your eyes before you looked

[Frank Blank]

4 minutes ago, Bridgehouse said:

Rock and roll well and truly rescued. My back, is however, ruined. 

As are my windows, radiators, furniture and anything else that rattles. 

I really am now a sad parody of myself

As much as the FRFR solution is (imho) very much about hearing one’s instrument without the colour certain amps and cabs give to it, for me the weight and size issue was hugely important. The K12.2 rattles my house just nicely! I think you are being wise not putting all your eggs in one basket.

3 minutes ago, Bridgehouse said:

Hope you had a few fingers covering your eyes before you looked

I looked. It reminds me of a rig I used in a thrash band I was in. There is a hugely heavy Acoustic (as in the make) head and cab at one of the venues I play at that I deeply covet, if I thought they’d sell it to me I’d buy it in a heartbeat, but, I don’t think I’d use it if I got it home, nonetheless, for some reason, I still want it.

[cattytown]

I am not familiar with the eq on the Ampeg, but how have you got that set?

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited March 2, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Muppet]

I had a BA115 HP which was the higher powered version and whilst the tone was great, the output was still quite poor which was a shame. I ended up selling it as if was only good for quiet rehearsal or recording. I'm not sure you're going to be able to increase the output enough to make a big difference. 

[Newfoundfreedom]

What's FRFR? 

[Frank Blank]

3 minutes ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

What's FRFR? 

Full Range Flat Response, see...

 

Edited December 25, 2018 by Frank Blank

[Newfoundfreedom]

1 minute ago, Frank Blank said:

Full Range Flat Response, see...

 

Thanks. Just read the first couple of posts and still none the wiser. 

[Frank Blank]

9 minutes ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

Thanks. Just read the first couple of posts and still none the wiser. 

I think I’m quoting another BassChatter here when I say it seems to have a couple of meanings to different people but to me (and do excus e my not very technical lay-person’s explanation here) it is about traditional bass amps and cabs having a very ‘coloured’ output, so you might want a truer idea of what your instrument really sounds like without the ‘colour’. Some powered PA speakers give such a ‘colourless’ sound, if not completely ‘colourless’ then close, certainly closer than a traditional amp/cab setup. Also, once you start exploring this avenue you might (or might not) be persuaded that actually such a powered PA speaker might be able to completely replace an amp/cab rig. I have done this recently and I’m not going back. Like @Bridgehouse, I now play my bass through a preamp into a powered PA speaker and when I gig I send a DI from the PA speaker to the desk. The forty pages of discussion on the Interesting FRFR thread has radically changed my approach to amplification in all scenarios, a complete game changer for me.

[Bridgehouse]

2 hours ago, Frank Blank said:

I think I’m quoting another BassChatter here when I say it seems to have a couple of meanings to different people but to me (and do excus e my not very technical lay-person’s explanation here) it is about traditional bass amps and cabs having a very ‘coloured’ output, so you might want a truer idea of what your instrument really sounds like without the ‘colour’. Some powered PA speakers give such a ‘colourless’ sound, if not completely ‘colourless’ then close, certainly closer than a traditional amp/cab setup. Also, once you start exploring this avenue you might (or might not) be persuaded that actually such a powered PA speaker might be able to completely replace an amp/cab rig. I have done this recently and I’m not going back. Like @Bridgehouse, I now play my bass through a preamp into a powered PA speaker and when I gig I send a DI from the PA speaker to the desk. The forty pages of discussion on the Interesting FRFR thread has radically changed my approach to amplification in all scenarios, a complete game changer for me.

Does this make me the “FRFRFather”?

[Frank Blank]

5 hours ago, Bridgehouse said:

Does this make me the “FRFRFather”?

I think it does Don @Bridgehouse. How’s the olive oil business?

[skidder652003]

Back on topic...

Ive been using an Ashdown five fifteen purchased from this here parish recently and it was way underpowered for my band (100watt marshall 410 stack) heavy drummer, all mic'd up. But I used my DHA pre amp pedal which has a 15db boost switch and its now easily keeps up (I also go through the PA to be fair), the difference in volume is astonishing, Im probably going to move on my Ampeg rig next year as its just not necessary. So yes, you can boost an underpowered combo with a preamp, IMO

Edited December 26, 2018 by skidder652003

[Al Krow]

1 minute ago, skidder652003 said:

Ive been using an Ashdown five fifteen purchased from this here parish recently and it was way underpowered for my band (100watt marshall 410 stack) heavy drummer, all mic'd up. But I used my DHA pre amp pedal which has a 15db boost switch and its now easily keeps up (I also go through the PA to be fair), the difference in volume is astonishing, Im probably going to move on my Ampeg rig next year as its just not necessary. So yes, you can boost an underpowered combo with a preamp, IMO

Steve - that is really interesting and it would be really neat if that worked generally. 

But I've been told that the physics doesn't work like that ie whatever the input the maximum output of a 100W power amp will be 100W? So I'm now a bit confused on the engineering / physics. 

@Phil Starr? 

[The59Sound]

A more powerful amp is required. No other solution to this I'm afraid. 

[paul_c2]

It almost sounds like there's a wiring fault or poor connection either with the bass or simply the lead, which means the input is only a fraction of what it should be. Worth properly testing before spending money on another amp or preamp!!!!!

[Bridgehouse]

The only Ampeg combo that ever really impressed me was one of the “T” models with a tube preamp - but even that was low output. 

I would suggest something with more heft and power as well. If you can stand the weight you can get some seriously powerful Trace watts for buttons these days..