Jimothey Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Christine said: How about colour grain filling the oak? There is a book by a guy called George Frank who developed techniques for that back in Art Deco days, it's worth trying to get a library to track down a copy. He also uses techniques like charring/wire brushing and grain filling too. One I remember was wire brushed, black stained then limed and let to fully dry then light sanded before a red filler was applied which gave a background of black with red filled white grain, spectacular! Edit, this is the book https://www.amazon.co.uk/Adventures-Wood-Finishing-Fine-woodworking/dp/091880406X I just searched for it and I came across this Is this the kind of effect you meant?? I not sure about the 3 colours but I really like the red which might be worth an experiment?? 😀 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 That's the sort of thing, almost the same as modern liming (white grain filling) but with a colour, imagine that with a non natural colour like bright yellow or blue too. I have never done that for real but I did a couple of test pieces about 30 years ago for someone who was thinking about something like that. If I remember correctly I used a sealer coat after the staining coat before filling so I could cut back into the sealer without hitting the stained layer and cutting into the wood again 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) That's just thrown a spanner in the works I thought I had in my head what I wanted to do but I keep on looking at the macassar ebony veneer that I was going to use a couple of builds back but decided to do Zebrano instead now I just don't know?? Edited January 18, 2019 by Jimothey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 You're so lucky to be spoilt for choice. That ash idea might be nice with a charcoal/grey stain and red filler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 Due to the expensive outlay for a new oven I've had to shelve the Ash and Panga Panga combo idea and I've decided on the 1 piece Sapele back stained black and Macassar Ebony veneered top finished with some Danish oil I cut out the body today and started trimming the body to the template, everything was going swimmingly until the bearing on my router bit decided to explode and ripping a big chunk out of the top horn!! (sorry I forgot to take a pic) so I've got to buy a new router bit and glue a lump of a Sapele on then re rout it😠 Instead of rounding over the top edge I've decided to chamfer it which I think will look good but I'm going to test it on an offcut first............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) I'm suppose that no-one ever thinks of putting so much as a single drop of 3 in 1 oil on router bit guide bearings. They are so easy to overlook and take for granted. I hope your repair looks as good as @Jabba_the_gut's did after his router farted spectacularly that time. Bevelled edges can look really good if you get them right. I reckon they'd look good with the body shapes you've shown us so far. Edited January 19, 2019 by SpondonBassed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 11 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said: I'm suppose that no-one ever thinks of putting so much as a single drop of 3 in 1 oil on router bit guide bearings. They are so easy to overlook and take for granted. I hope your repair looks as good as @Jabba_the_gut's did after his router farted spectacularly that time. Bevelled edges can look really good if you get them right. I reckon they'd look good with the body shapes you've shown us so far. Yeah your right it is a thing that is overlooked I can only hope that the repair will look half as good as @Jabba_the_gut's but his skills far exceed mine!! The body shape I based it on has a chamfered top edge but I'm going to try and veneer the chamfer to get the drop top look (which I think will be an arduous task but worth it!!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 Here's the damaged top horn!...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Ouch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) 53 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said: Ouch. Luckily it was in a position where I could just cut off square and glue a peice on so I managed to repair it quite well and rounded off the back and chamfered the top........... I'll probably start the contouring tomorrow and my veneer should be here tomorrow aswell............ 😀 I'm thinking I might have to try and contour the back 'al a @Andyjr1515 style' to try and remove some weight as the body is a tad on the heavy side Edited January 21, 2019 by Jimothey 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 @Andyjr1515 I'm thinking that I would need to take out a little bit less than this but I'm not sure how exactly it will go at the bottom of the neck pocket?? Or is this too much?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Jimothey said: @Andyjr1515 I'm thinking that I would need to take out a little bit less than this but I'm not sure how exactly it will go at the bottom of the neck pocket?? Or is this too much?? There are a few things to consider: You need enough depth for: the pickups and fixings; pots; jacksocket or - if planning a top-loaded jack position - the jack itself; neck pocket floor Whatever, I wouldn't go thinner than 25mm at the thinnest point. Even then, I tend to have to cut the pickup fixing screws shorter so they don't poke through the bottom! Personally, I'm generally comfortable with a neck pocket bottom of, say, 15mm (depending on the wood). However, if that makes you nervous, you can always taper the carve so the body becomes progressively thicker from the tailstock to the heel Visually, that looks fine to me - and will take out a LOT of weight - but make those checks and consider the 'how am I going to' aspects of each of the elements. Hope this helps Andy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 16 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said: There are a few things to consider: You need enough depth for: the pickups and fixings; pots; jacksocket or - if planning a top-loaded jack position - the jack itself; neck pocket floor Whatever, I wouldn't go thinner than 25mm at the thinnest point. Even then, I tend to have to cut the pickup fixing screws shorter so they don't poke through the bottom! Personally, I'm generally comfortable with a neck pocket bottom of, say, 15mm (depending on the wood). However, if that makes you nervous, you can always taper the carve so the body becomes progressively thicker from the tailstock to the heel Visually, that looks fine to me - and will take out a LOT of weight - but make those checks and consider the 'how am I going to' aspects of each of the elements. Hope this helps Andy At the moment the body is approx 44mm thick and weighs I would guess 1 1/2 times the weight of the original body so I've got to do something to lighten it and I thought this might be the easiest option?........ I was probably going to try and keep it to about 30mm in the centre but I think I will have to taper it to the neck pocket, Apart from the arm carve I was going to keep the top of the body flat, I'm planning on doing a side jack So I think it'll end up being a very slow process checking, double checking so I don't mess it 🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) Another way is to take a few mm off the whole thickness - maybe down to 38mm? - then do a more modest 'arch' carve? Probably would take out more weight than just an arch. Edited January 21, 2019 by Andyjr1515 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Another thing I've done in the past with overly heavy solid bodies is rout a chamber in the back with a 'false' control chamber cover... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said: Another way is to take a few mm off the whole thickness - maybe down to 38mm? - then do a more modest 'arch' carve? Probably would take out more weight than just an arch. Yeah that's a good point and it would probably work better thanks mate 👍😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Andyjr1515 said: Another thing I've done in the past with overly heavy solid bodies is rout a chamber in the back with a 'false' control chamber cover... I was thinking of possibly doing a chamber from the top and glue in a cover plate out of 4mm ply then veneer over the top?..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said: Another thing I've done in the past with overly heavy solid bodies is rout a chamber in the back with a 'false' control chamber cover... Like this - The top rhs one is mine - the others came with the guitar And it hides this: Which took remarkably little weight out, but did it change it from 'unplayable' to 'only just playable' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Jimothey said: I was thinking of possibly doing a chamber from the top and glue in a cover plate out of 4mm ply then veneer over the top?..... Ooooooh….I'd forgotten that you are veneering it! Oh absolutely. Do you remember Harry's Harley Benton bass? It is surprising JUST how much chambering you need to do, but this made a big, big difference to the playability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said: Ooooooh….I'd forgotten that you are veneering it! Oh absolutely. Do you remember Harry's Harley Benton bass? It is surprising JUST how much chambering you need to do, but this made a big, big difference to the playability. That's where I got the idea from! I knew I had seen it done but couldn't remember where I'd seen it!! Yeah that's exactly what I had in mind and if I combine that with thinning the body down a bit that hopefully will take the weight down considerably... ........ 😀 Edited January 21, 2019 by Jimothey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, Jimothey said: That's where I got the idea from! I knew I had seen it done but couldn't remember where I'd seen it!! Yeah that's exactly what I had in mind and if I combine that with thinning the body down a bit that hopefully will take the weight down considerably... ........ 😀 Absolutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Clearly, it depends on the density of the wood, but just as a guide, the degree of chambering I did on Harry's bass reduced the overall playing weight from 10.5lbs to 9lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted January 22, 2019 Author Share Posted January 22, 2019 I reckon this will be the amount I will need to chamber out, the bottom chamber I'll cover with 6mm ply so I can just use that for my controls......... But before I do that I need to thin the body down a bit!!........... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted January 23, 2019 Author Share Posted January 23, 2019 The veneer turned up yesterday so here's how the top will look Only problem is that where the nice figuring is will be covered by the bridge and pickups! I might have to do a bit of jiggery pokerey to get it looking good!?!....... 😀 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted January 23, 2019 Author Share Posted January 23, 2019 Started the weight reduction today its already considerably lighter than it was! It's now roughly the same weight as the original body, By the time I've routed the pickups, neck pocket and finished the control cavity I think it will be kinda the weight I was aiming for......... Just got some cleaning up of the sides and do the rebate then I'm ready to start capping it off................ 😀 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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