Bass 101 Question

[dmccombe7]

52 minutes ago, Crawford13 said:

Lots of good advice here. Don’t force yourself to use 1 finger per fret if it’s not under your fingers. For the most part I use fingers 1 & 4 to cover the distance of 3 frets (especially in the first 5 frets) when playing lines.

I do use 1 finger per fret when practicing chromatic scales. But that’s probably when I use it most, and that’s also what I believe will help stretch you hands if you want to use the 1 finger per fret approach.

Yep agree with this. Its probably the only time i use it too. 

[SpondonBassed]

9 hours ago, Drums and Bass said:

Is this something that I will find gets easier the more practice I put in

Yes.

There are stretching exercises like Patitucci's Spider that can help you.  Sorry if this has already been mentioned.  I really ought try and TAB it out for you but I am sure someone else can do that for you if you can't find the video clip online.  At this time I am unable to find an image of the notation.

When you do lots of reps of this sort of exercise, it is quite acceptable to continue up to the pain barrier.  The important thing is to stop there and then and play something less strenuous for a good while.  You might feel an occasional bit of pain as you approach the barrier but you should not be in pain.  The danger there is that you work through it and your body numbs the pain putting you at risk of an RSI.

[Dad3353]

One tip on 'one finger per fret' exercises (from a drummer, so you can trust me..! ) is to start the exercises from the octave, playing up the neck, and start down one fret (so the 11th...) only when you're comfy with 'em from the octave. Repeat the exercises till comfy, then down another fret. and so on ... Before long, you'll be at the first fret, no bother. Taking things slowly is the fastest way, so take your time; you're young yet. 

[tauzero]

12 hours ago, bazzbass said:

your handspan does increase with practice and time.

If anyone doubts this , hold your hands together, palms touching, thumbs and fingers touching their opposite one.

Now fan out your fingers as wide as you can. Your fretting hand should have a wider span. In my case it is the width of my pinky.

My non-fretting hand has a slightly larger span than my fretting hand, so 45 years of playing hasn't increased my span.

One finger per fret is very useful for the standard walking bass line. You'd normally use three of the four fingers rather than all four, which I think makes things a little easier.

[JapanAxe]

IMO one-finger-per-fret is neither necessary nor desirable, especially at the head end of the neck. It is perfectly acceptable to cover 3 adjacent frets using all 4 fingers, and to move your whole hand to a new position when required.

[Ricky 4000]

Nobody has suggested a short scale bass? I recently bought one from this very boutique, and the results are quite amazing.

If I'm practicing a line that's a bit of a stretch on a long scale bass, I try it on the shorty "guitar scale" Jazz, and sure enough, I can usually play the line faster, and less sloppy.

The incredible part is, when I then switch back to the long scale, I'm playing the line just as well as I was on the shorty - due to the luxury of more space on the neck.

I figure if I keep repeating that process, I will become infinite! 👍

Edited December 27, 2018 by Ricky 4000

[prowla]

There is no right or wrong way to play.

I used to do stretching exercises for my left hand and indeed it does stretch wider than my right.

IMHO, there are two types of bass players (regarding left-hand technique): i. those who play "correctly", with their thumb elegantly placed on the back of the neck, etc. and ii. those who do what they like; if you look at the top players with their own recognizable style, they tend to be the latter.

[Newfoundfreedom]

5 hours ago, Ricky 4000 said:

Nobody has suggested a short scale bass? I recently bought one from this very boutique, and the results are quite amazing.

If I'm practicing a line that's a bit of a stretch on a long scale bass, I try it on the shorty "guitar scale" Jazz, and sure enough, I can usually play the line faster, and less sloppy.

The incredible part is, when I then switch back to the long scale, I'm playing the line just as well as I was on the shorty - due to the luxury of more space on the neck.

I figure if I keep repeating that process, I will become infinite! 👍

I regularly practice in the house on a short sale then switch to a regular scale when playing with the band. It works for me too. The notes are easier to reach, which makes the songs easier to learn. Then switching to long scale just happens naturally. 

I'd kind of use the analogy of someone that is overwhelmed learning to drive. The hardest part is changing gear along with the other myriad of things you're trying to concentrate on. For most people sticking with it and practice will eventually pay off. But some people will never get it, or at the very least find it an extreme struggle and eventually give up. For these people it may be easier to learn in an automatic. Get plenty of practice, then switch to a manual when everything else is coming naturally and not taking all your concentration. 

Apart from all that, I just love the feel and sound of my Gretsch shorty. 😀

[Newfoundfreedom]

13 minutes ago, prowla said:

 

IMHO, there are two types of bass players (regarding left-hand technique): i. those who play "correctly", with their thumb elegantly placed on the back of the neck, etc. and ii. those who do what they like; if you look at the top players with their own recognizable style, they tend to be the latter.

Again I totally agree. To use the driving analogy once more, driving instructors insist on having your hands on the ten to two position on the wheel, which I'm sure it's a good habit to get into, but I never saw Colin McRae do it. 

[chris_b]

You guys can come up with as many ways to get around developing a good technique as you like, but the best and most effective way of playing is to learn to do it properly. In the end bad habits slow you down, and unlearning bad habits is a pain! I don't know who is being held up as a top player, but all the top players I see are generally using effective and flexible techniques.

If we are using driving analogies, my Dad always told me, when I was learning to drive, that you learn to do something properly first, then you adapt it.

Edited December 27, 2018 by chris_b

[Newfoundfreedom]

56 minutes ago, chris_b said:

You guys can come up with as many ways to get around developing a good technique as you like, but the best and most effective way of playing is to learn to do it properly. In the end bad habits slow you down, and unlearning bad habits is a pain! I don't know who is being held up as a top player, but all the top players I see are generally using effective and flexible techniques.

If we are using driving analogies, my Dad always told me, when I was learning to drive, that you learn to do something properly first, then you adapt it.

Yeah you're probably right, but some people want to be Nigel Mansell while others are happy just to drive to the shop. 

I just want to be in a band and make some noise with my mates. It never hurt the Sex Pistols. 

You can practice technique all you like, especially if you are or want to be a "professional" musician. But banging away on route notes to a three chord song is still great fun.

Spending hours learning scales, finger patterns, technique etc can be extremely daunting for new players, as well as sucking all the fun right out of it. 

Learn the basics, join a band, make a noise, worry about the rest later. The most important thing is enjoying it. If you're not doing that then you're wasting your time. 

Edited December 27, 2018 by Newfoundfreedom

[Crawford13]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

You guys can come up with as many ways to get around developing a good technique as you like, but the best and most effective way of playing is to learn to do it properly. In the end bad habits slow you down, and unlearning bad habits is a pain! I don't know who is being held up as a top player, but all the top players I see are generally using effective and flexible techniques.

If we are using driving analogies, my Dad always told me, when I was learning to drive, that you learn to do something properly first, then you adapt it.

From my point of view I wasn’t try to give advice to develop bad techniques, I was talking about using a different technique which most bass players adopt by necessity.

I feel that one finger per fret is a guitar technique that has been transferred to bass, and due to a significant difference in scale length is not appropriate for many people.  So recommending that people try a different technique is not bad advice in my opinion.

[Unknown_User]

Do you hold the neck like it was a bat, with your thumb hanging over the E string or with your thumb on the back of the neck? 

I always held it like a bat as that was the easiest and most comfortable but I saw a You Tube video of Scott's Bass Lessons (check out his channel as it's really helped me as self taught be slightly less ignorant of the fundamentals of technique and theory).  He said to hold it with the thumb on the back of the neck as when you're holding it like a bat with your arm perpendicular to the back of the neck then it's closing your hand up.  If you have your thumb on the back of the neck your palm is like 45 degrees down from the fretboard and it opens your hand up.

I suppose it's like making a fist and trying to stretch your fingers apart, then opening your hand and trying.  Made using all my fingers much easier for me.

[BreadBin]

Baseball bat technique doesn't seem to have held this guy back...

 

[chris_b]

6 minutes ago, BreadBin said:

Baseball bat technique doesn't seem to have held this guy back...

It's a pretty good example of what I'm saying. He's using different techniques as appropriate.

His fretting hand is moving all the time, and one thing he's not doing is stretching to reach any notes.

[Unknown_User]

Oh aye, there's more than one way to skin a cat.  Of the gigs I've been to recently I've seen some very good bass players playing with that bat holding technique and I'm not saying it can't be done.  I was just responding to the particular original question about finding it difficult to stretch and that is definitely something that helped me.

I use both techniques for different songs myself.  I use the bat holding technique for Sweet Home Alabama as I found that for some reason the thumb at the back technique was hurting and making my hand go numb.  On the other hand Venus by Shocking Blue would probably be murder to play like that but with the thumb at the back technique it's quite fun to play.  Probably because there's some breaks in it as I find the gripping with that technique painful if I don't get a chance to relax my arm during a song.  I'm looking at you, Rescue Me by Fontella Bass.

[leftybassman392]

Not really taking sides in this one, but what I would say as a (now retired) professional tutor for both guitar and bass for around 15 years is that among my adult students more time was spent undoing bad habits learnt in their youth than on any other single aspect of playing technique.

Yes it does take all sorts, but when I hear bad technique justified by saying things like 'it never did [insert name here] any harm' I do get a bit annoyed. People who succeed in the music business with poor technique mostly do so in spite of their technical failings, not because of them.

If one is happy with the way one plays then there's not much that needs saying, but to advocate it as a method others should emulate is (as you might expect) something I would caution against.

Edited December 27, 2018 by leftybassman392

[prowla]

The only bad technique is one which produces bad tunes.

[Dad3353]

3 hours ago, prowla said:

The only bad technique is one which produces bad tunes.

... or limits one's progression, or causes permanent damage, or gives one the impression that that's all there is to playing bass or ...

[paul_c2]

Two points:

1. If you learn poor technique, it can be self-limiting. It may hold you back, or give formidable barriers later in your musical development. Or it might not be an issue, eg if you're happy just to plod along playing root & fifth, etc.

2. There's only two kinds of learning: self-taught and guided. If you are self-taught, there is always a danger that you are reinforcing poor techniques, doing it wrong, not doing some aspects you should, etc. It is human nature to subconciously put to one side, those aspects you don't want to do etc. A good teacher would know this, be able to identify it, know if its an issue and correct it in good time. Its a case of "you don't know what you don't know".

[prowla]

1 hour ago, Dad3353 said:

... or limits one's progression, or causes permanent damage, or gives one the impression that that's all there is to playing bass or ...

I think most players are either (a) causing damage or (b) avoiding damage by exercising their fingers.

[prowla]

1 hour ago, paul_c2 said:

Two points:

1. If you learn poor technique, it can be self-limiting. It may hold you back, or give formidable barriers later in your musical development. Or it might not be an issue, eg if you're happy just to plod along playing root & fifth, etc.

2. There's only two kinds of learning: self-taught and guided. If you are self-taught, there is always a danger that you are reinforcing poor techniques, doing it wrong, not doing some aspects you should, etc. It is human nature to subconciously put to one side, those aspects you don't want to do etc. A good teacher would know this, be able to identify it, know if its an issue and correct it in good time. Its a case of "you don't know what you don't know".

Regarding 1. - take a look at videos of the adventurous players: Geddy Lee, Chris Squire, John Entwistle, Mark King, Jack Bruce, etc. Do they have "good" or "bad" technique?

 

[micguy]

I’ve been playing for 40 years. I have absolutely huge hands. I have trouble finding glives long enough. My left hand has an inch and a half more span than my right hand. Even with all that, I don’t do one finger per fret very often. I do a lot of double stops - fifths and octaves. I shift - a lot. You can’t play the lines I play with one finger per fret. 

One finger per fret is great for speed shredder type guitarists. Maybe it works for some bassists, too. If all your lines are one note at a time, maybe it’s OK. For others, like me, not so much.

 

[SpondonBassed]

21 hours ago, chris_b said:

do it properly

By who's definition though?

Hmmm.

[dmccombe7]

With my broadband in our area down yesterday i decided to go and play some bass. As i was playing i noticed that i was actually doing the one finger per fret thing (as i was taught at the beginning in 1976. only 12-18mths lessons) I was laying around 5th fret upwards tho but as i started moving down the neck i found myself doing it far more than i originally thought.

I am a bit lazy with my 3rd (ring) finger tho and i think i might work on that. I just realised when practicing without background music i play using mainly 1st, 2nd and 4th fingers.

So maybe that original training or lessons has rubbed off more than i ever realy thought. I'm nowhere near Mr Malaman's technique but i have a life outside of bass these days 

Dave