Funk advice - stick to the bassline or busk it?

[lownote]

We have a fantastic new funk club in Norwich.  The standard of playing is awesome and I love it.  Well.. I would, only I'm just learning that bass is high profile in funk, and well known numbers involve well known seminal bass lines.  Now I have a dreadful memory and can't learn bass lines, and therefore have always been in bands which allow me to do my own thing.  Is this 'lese majeste' in funk, should I make the effort, or are there grounds for allowing me to go my own way? 

Edited December 28, 2018 by lownote12

[Crawford13]

There are certain things that you could busk as long as you are in the pocket. But certain lines people would definitely expect to hear eg Chameleon...

[Cato]

I'm pretty sure that a lot of the guys who played on the original records were busking it to some extent. Maybe not the main body of the bassline but a lot of the fills and flourishes were probably improvised.

Obviously people expect the lines to be close to the originals but unless they're all fanatical purists I reckon there's room for a bit of flexibility and improvisation as well.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Cato

[SpondonBassed]

Okay, Chic right?  Not your hard core funk I know but an example that serves;

The late Bernard Edwards and the current bassist, Jerry Barnes, play very different lines to each other.  There are many polar opinions about this.  Me?  I like each bassist for what they bring to the song rather than being a stickler for nostalgia.

I loved Bernard Edwards' lines.  I practice a couple of them regularly.  I sometimes flip to Barnes' lines and back, despite learning the original music from a reputable score.

I am not an accomplished player but it strikes me that you need to be comfortable with what you are playing in order to be on it consistently.  It is therefore your call.

[Teebs]

1 hour ago, lownote12 said:

We have a fantastic new funk club in Norwich.  The standard of playing is awesome and I love it.  Well.. I would, only I'm just learning that bass is high profile in funk, and well known numbers involve well known seminal bass lines.  Now I have a dreadful memory and can't learn bass lines, and therefore have always been in bands which allow me to do my own thing.  Is this 'lese majeste' in funk, should I make the effort, or are there grounds for allowing me to go my own way? 

Where in Norwich? I'm in Fakenham at the mo. I love a bit of da funk

[Dad3353]

2 hours ago, Teebs said:

Where in Norwich? I'm in Fakenham at the mo. I love a bit of da funk

Don't bother with it, lad. It's supposed to be 'funk', but they're all...

Fakenham..!

...

Edited December 26, 2018 by Dad3353

[chris_b]

Old school funk will pretty much consist of riffs and grooves.

Jazz Funk will contain riffs and grooves but there will be more jamming and stretching out. 

What you do will depend on the rest of the band.

[grumpyguts]

In my view it's all about the groove. I enjoy a good funky repeatable groove - bung a few fills in but don't loose the groove. People recognise the usual suspects in this genre by the bass lines, plus if you go a bit off piste it can upset / confuse the drummer. 

[mikel]

If it does not groove its not funk. I am happy to sit on a groove all night if it serves the music. Lock in with the drummer and you are good to go.

[lownote]

17 hours ago, Teebs said:

Where in Norwich? I'm in Fakenham at the mo. I love a bit of da funk

The Reindeer, Dereham Road, Norwich, Teebs.  Next one's Feb 28th.

[fleabag]

Strangely,  i'm in a funk band ..   ' What The Funk '    ( seriously ) and i dont play any of them as per the original,  because we're not a tribute band. An approximation is fine , as we're just a covers band.  Long as you get the feel, and maybe close enough to the original,  i say ( IMO ) that it's good enough.

A good drummist is required.  Tight, not too much flash, and certainly no  shed builder.  Playing with a good funk drummer is a joy to behold

[Teebs]

1 hour ago, lownote12 said:

The Reindeer, Dereham Road, Norwich, Teebs.  Next one's Feb 28th.

Thanks

[Dad3353]

6 hours ago, lownote12 said:

The Reindeer, Dereham Road, Norwich, Teebs.  Next one's Feb 28th.

That's not a mile away from my birthplace, Earlham Grove..! 

[paul_c2]

I wonder if this is a case of "first you have to learn the rules, before you can break them". Of course its not required to play the actual riffs exactly right, but I think there's a value in learning them more/less properly (and memorising them......), with an added bonus of being able to come up with your own variations. Sometimes the essence of a groove or song is due to the delicate timings between the different instruments (they may be all playing the same rhythm, or it may be different to one another), in that case it would be good to preserve this.

Another common thing in music is that you'd play a tune "straight" the first verse or so, then on additional repeats you could alter, maybe quite markedly. But laying down that initial groove would be important.

Also I've observed that with well known tunes, when they are rearranged, often it is a case of "less is more" and a radical rearrangement is not that well received.

[tonyquipment]

Sounds dumb but why not just learn the bass line or pattern and apply it to your own playing? 

I learnt how to octave by watching a bass cover of Duran Duran - girls on film. I was curious how it looked on the fretboard and when I watched the video I was like ahhh I see what you did there. So I practised it. Just the chorus. Got that down and could play it over and over. I loaded up the song into virtualDJ and set it to loop on the chorus and played along to it until I nailed it. Forgotten how to play it now but I still know how to octave. 

Rock and roll blues stuff yeah same thing if you’re playing 12 bar blues. You get bored of root notes so eventually you work out the scales and recycle the same shape or note grouping on each string or to the appropriate fret. 

For funk not that I’m any good at it whatsoever, probably worth learning a couple of tracks and picking out the key elements that you feel are funkaaaay 😬

[SpondonBassed]

14 hours ago, fleabag said:

Strangely,  i'm in a funk band ..   ' What The Funk '    ( seriously ) and i dont play any of them as per the original,  because we're not a tribute band. An approximation is fine , as we're just a covers band.  Long as you get the feel, and maybe close enough to the original,  i say ( IMO ) that it's good enough.

A good drummist is required.  Tight, not too much flash, and certainly no  shed builder.  Playing with a good funk drummer is a joy to behold

Got any YT clips Fleabag?  I like the sound of that.

[lownote]

10 hours ago, paul_c2 said:

I wonder if this is a case of "first you have to learn the rules, before you can break them". Of course its not required to play the actual riffs exactly right, but I think there's a value in learning them more/less properly (and memorising them......), with an added bonus of being able to come up with your own variations. Sometimes the essence of a groove or song is due to the delicate timings between the different instruments (they may be all playing the same rhythm, or it may be different to one another), in that case it would be good to preserve this.

Another common thing in music is that you'd play a tune "straight" the first verse or so, then on additional repeats you could alter, maybe quite markedly. But laying down that initial groove would be important.

Also I've observed that with well known tunes, when they are rearranged, often it is a case of "less is more" and a radical rearrangement is not that well received.

Sounds wise to me Paul

[TrevorR]

On 26/12/2018 at 19:46, SpondonBassed said:

Okay, Chic right?  Not your hard core funk I know but an example that serves;

The late Bernard Edwards and the current bassist, Jerry Barnes, play very different lines to each other.  There are many polar opinions about this.  Me?  I like each bassist for what they bring to the song rather than being a stickler for nostalgia.

I loved Bernard Edwards' lines.  I practice a couple of them regularly.  I sometimes flip to Barnes' lines and back, despite learning the original music from a reputable score.

I am not an accomplished player but it strikes me that you need to be comfortable with what you are playing in order to be on it consistently.  It is therefore your call.

Good advice but I’d also underline, learn the basic groove that underpins the song and play around that. Sometimes a groove is just a groove and you can play around it as much as you like. Sometimes it’s a fundamental part of the song. Good Times wouldn’t sound like Good Times without an approximation of THAT bassline.  So long as you play the fundamentals of the song and work out  what’s important to the tune.

Applies to certain tunes in all genres. Good Times, Owner of a Lonely Heart, The Chain, So What, Lady Marmalade, Another One Bites The Dust, Rio and Superfreak would all sound as bad as each other withthe iconic bassline replaced by either root notes or a rock ‘n’ roll walking bass.

Whereas when we did “What’s Going On” or “Mercy mercy me” in my old band I felt much freer to play around the chord changes...

 

[fleabag]

5 hours ago, SpondonBassed said:

Got any YT clips Fleabag?  I like the sound of that.

Fraid not SB

[Barking Spiders]

I'm a hardcore funk fan of many years with an extensive funk CD collection. I know the basslines to many funk tunes like the back of my hand and TBH if anyone covering these weren't playing them note perfect I'd find it jarring. Fr'instance I watched Chic's set from Glasto and I simply didn't like Jerry Barnes playing on seminal tunes. He's a quality player but here he threw in extra notes and put in some slaps where there should've been spaces.

[bearhart74]

Just make sure you can find the one then do what the song requires

[Ricky 4000]

3 hours ago, TrevorR said:

Good advice but I’d also underline, learn the basic groove that underpins the song and play around that. Sometimes a groove is just a groove and you can play around it as much as you like. Sometimes it’s a fundamental part of the song. Good Times wouldn’t sound like Good Times without an approximation of THAT bassline.  So long as you play the fundamentals of the song and work out  what’s important to the tune.

Applies to certain tunes in all genres. Good Times, Owner of a Lonely Heart, The Chain, So What, Lady Marmalade, Another One Bites The Dust, Rio and Superfreak would all sound as bad as each other with the iconic bassline replaced by either root notes or a rock ‘n’ roll walking bass.

Whereas when we did “What’s Going On” or “Mercy mercy me” in my old band I felt much freer to play around the chord changes...

 

Trivia note:

Apparently, hearing Good Times was what prompted Queen to come up with AOBTD.

I'm surprised Nile Rogers didn't want 50% of it. 😁

[steve-bbb]

Stick to it as close as possible

it is the nuances that make each song unique - if you play something ‘close’ or ‘your own interpretation’ dont be surprised if everything starts sounding a bit samey 

most importantly, after you have invested your time and effort into replicating the bass part accurately make sure the drummist is doing likewise with the drum line - funk is about the bass and the drums and THE NUANCES

and dont forget the ONE

Edited December 29, 2018 by steve-bbb

[tinyd]

If the bass line is a "signature" of the tune then learn it pretty much note-for-note, since it's effectively part of the tune's melody. But for other lines it's fine to play your own variants over the changes. One caveat of this approach is that you need to avoid the temptation to overplay. I've caught myself doing this loads - play what I think is a similar groove from memory and realise that I'm playing a lot more notes than the original. Cissy Strut is a good example of this - a lot of people put in extra notes that aren't in the original.

 

[SpondonBassed]

12 hours ago, TrevorR said:

I’d also underline, learn the basic groove that underpins the song and play around that

Isn't that the elusive part though?  You can learn the meter of the song and measure your notes precisely against the bar and yet that does not guarantee you a groove.

I believe in the words of the title of Deee-Lite's song; Groove is in the Heart...  ain't it the truth?