Rickenbackers - Overrated?

[stingrayPete1977]

I do like the look of them, always have. 

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

I've only played one a couple of times and have to say, for me, it blew away the competition on that particularly day (which was Lakland) in terms of tone and looks.

+1 ^^

I guess they are going to be the ultimate marmite bass and whilst I can't stand marmite, I've always thought that Rickenbackers just looked the part!

And if it was good enough for him...

..and him

and even him...

Then it's certainly not too good for me!

As I mentioned earlier that most people known for playing them are known more for playing other things, so lemmy, yes, but Macca? Hofner. Phil Lynot? Mirror pick-guard P Bass. 

[RedVee]

2 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

As I mentioned earlier that most people known for playing them are known more for playing other things, so lemmy, yes, but Macca? Hofner. Phil Lynot? Mirror pick-guard P Bass. 

Well the same can be said for other makes of Bass Guitar.

[Woodinblack]

8 minutes ago, RedVee said:

Well the same can be said for other makes of Bass Guitar.

Of course it can. But the point is that two of those people in that list are people who are normally connected to another bass brand.

[4000]

18 hours ago, Delberthot said:

Most of the other players started off on Ricks and moved to other basses. Off the top of my head John Entwistle, John Deacon, Roger Waters, Pete Quaife & Geddy Lee. I think it was either Waters or Quaife who said that the neck ended up like a banana when he changed strings so that was the reason to change

There’s a good reason why that happened. The ‘60s Rics came with very low tension flats. So what did everyone do? They stuck Rotosounds on them. 😉 Then there’s the other thing; they had to adjust the truss rods. But 4001 rods don’t adjust like other rods; you first slacken off the truss rod nuts, then move the neck into position, then tighten the nuts to hold it in place. Unfortunately, up until relatively recently, not a lot of people knew that. So the first thing they do is tighten the rods as per other basses, which either screws up the rods, pops the fingerboard, or both (if you’re really lucky). And of course it has to be said that those thin necks, in the days before reinforcement, weren’t really designed to handle heavy strings. Having said that, many of the necks managed, but some didn’t. When adjusted correctly the rods are pretty effective; Geddy’s tech said that they got one of his Rics out after some years and the neck hadn’t budged an inch, whereas his Jazz had been through several necks at that point. 

Edited December 28, 2018 by 4000

[4000]

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

As I mentioned earlier that most people known for playing them are known more for playing other things, so lemmy, yes, but Macca? Hofner. Phil Lynot? Mirror pick-guard P Bass. 

To be fair, Macca started his career on the Hofner. He moved over to the Ric because it recorded and intonated better (and was free😂). So the Hofner was his iconic bass before the Ric came along. Having said that he used the Ric through Wings, but went back to the Hofner at the prompting of Elvis Costello. And because it was light. And iconic. 😉

Phil moved to the P because he felt it was easier to impose his personality on it.

[PaulWarning]

never played a Ric, being a lefty they're a bit rarer, but I don't think I want to, I might like it, and then have to shell out 2 or 3 grand to buy one.

I think the one thing most of us can agree on, they're overpriced

[Ricky 4000]

6 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

never played a Ric, being a lefty they're a bit rarer, but I don't think I want to, I might like it, and then have to shell out 2 or 3 grand to buy one.

I think the one thing most of us can agree on, they're overpriced

* Reassuringly expensive. 😁

[Woodinblack]

The strange thing to me is that rics are most iconic with punk (the basses, not the guitars, they are much more jangly hippy 60s stuff), whereas cost wise, they are the least punk thing going. 

Obviously Mr Hall prices them however he wants, and although he is a complete c*ck, I do sort of admire the idea of a company that is sustainable, that doesn't want to grow like fender and gibson, and just to maintain the same size and 'high quality' <cough> <cough>, but I do think though that the people who are buying them now, for whom the Ric bass is an icon were influenced by the groups of their youth playing rics. If they are too expensive for the young groups now to be playing, in 20-30 years time, why would you pick one up?

[4000]

I remember in the late ‘80s (?), they were going for about £250 used. I got my main ‘72 in 1993 for £490. Those days are long gone! 

[Delberthot]

33 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

never played a Ric, being a lefty they're a bit rarer, but I don't think I want to, I might like it, and then have to shell out 2 or 3 grand to buy one.

I think the one thing most of us can agree on, they're overpriced

I think Foderas and Alembics are overpriced. When I hear Stanley Clarke play I can tell he is talented but all I hear is clackety clack. Victor Wooten's bass sound is pretty dire IMO as well. They look well made but I've never heard one that I liked.

At the end of the day it's all subjective but the fact that most retailers never have stocks of Rickenbackers available for long would indicate that people are buying them at that price so they are either underpriced or at the right price.

If I could afford a new Audi A8 then I would have one in a minute but they're the best part of £70,000 so about 4 times as expensive as my car was new. I would still have one though. 😀

[Bob Lord]

I think nearly all new basses are overpriced nowadays. The new Stingrays are crazy money. Fender are asking more than a grand for some of their fancier Mexican instruments, which is nuts IMO.

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, Bob Lord said:

I think nearly all new basses are overpriced nowadays. The new Stingrays are crazy money. Fender are asking more than a grand for some of their fancier Mexican instruments, which is nuts IMO.

Notable exception to Yamaha basses. IMO they hold their own with the best of the competition and still don't cost the earth. They also make some half decent Helix pedals  

[krispn]

Yamaha have eye watering prices too but unlike Ric’s they have products available at many price points. I’m not debating the quality and playability of the Yamaha stuff at each price point but have you seen the cost of an Attitude bass, the BBNE, TRBJPII? They must be more than a Ric. The problem is you can’t get a ticket to the Ric party for under about £1500 but you can with a whole lot of other brands for a fifth of that cost.

The bonus of these high ticket models like with Yamaha is (or should be if a company has good leadership) the techniques and tech used in their high end model R&D should eventually filter down into the less expensive models so the standard across the range improves and value to the player is enhanced and that’s why so many people like Yamaha for instance.

The idiosyncrasies of a particular model like a Ric or MM from the other thread is what we love/hate about those models. What we value in terms of look, feel and sound and overall cool is sometimes irrelevant because folk just think they’re cool in spite of the feel tone or playability. 

[Woodinblack]

The advantage that gives to someone like Yamaha, ibanez etc is that you can “join the party” cheaply. Then when you want to spend more you know what you want. My most expensive ibanez is the same price as ric, but I was already in the club, I know what I was getting, just more of the same

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

The advantage that gives to someone like Yamaha, ibanez etc is that you can “join the party” cheaply. Then when you want to spend more you know what you want. My most expensive ibanez is the same price as ric, but I was already in the club, I know what I was getting, just more of the same

It's an interesting point that @krispn and you make.

By selling a MIM Fender, do folk go on to get an USA made Fender? Have Fender sold a bass that they wouldn't have otherwise or have they "cannibalised" a sale of USA Fender?

The Yamaha BB1024/5 are such a good bass and differ only to BB2024/5 in (1) sonic wood treatments (2) being Japanese rather than Indonesian made - so more expensive labour costs. Very few make the jump from the 1024/5 to 2024/5 which costs three times as much.

Folk who buy Ibanez Standard are often underwhelmed by the Barts whereas the big single Nords on Premium range elicit almost universal love. Are Ibby hurting their brand by making the Standard range available? (And why won't they do a P/J in the Premium or Prestige range?!)

[gareth]

17 hours ago, 4000 said:

I remember in the late ‘80s (?), they were going for about £250 used. I got my main ‘72 in 1993 for £490. Those days are long gone! 

I got my great sounding 2000ish 4003 4 years ago £900

Yeah, expensive

[krispn]

@Al Krow basicslly the answer to that question is yes and that’s the whole business model and the point of multiple price point instruments from entry level to pro level. By creating brand loyalty there’s the lure of continuity from first bass to first intermediate bass to high end bass. A company hopes that those same people end up buying the most expensive instrument as the pinnacle of ownership and brand loyalty.

 A company isn’t cannibalising sales by having good quality across the broad spectrum of their product range. I may never be in a position to spend 2k on a single bass purchase but I could own 4 models across a brands range.

I have no evidence to back this up other than the amount of Fender basses sold but many people starting out on a less expensive Fender see a Mexican or American made model as the natural next step up the ladder and this may well continue to those aspirational upgrades of an artist dig model of a custom shop purchase. 

The point of a cannibalised sale is surely as relevant in Yamaha’s case if their BB1024 isn’t three times lesser an instrument to a BB2024. Has Yamaha done themselves out of selling the higher ticket item due to the good quality at the Bb1024 price point? People will spend big money on these basses due to the perceived increase in quality, as a status symbol, their fav player uses it etc. and that’s the point of having multiple in’s for the potential customer.

Folks who buy an Ibanez ‘standard’ model may never have the cash or inclination to buy a Premium model irrespective of the hardware but they could change the pick ups at any time and still be happy with their bass purchase. Many people like Bartolini pick ups and many people like Nordstrand. Your views or preferences do not speak for the bass playing community as a whole but as possibly more reflective of your own experience and the groups you subscribe to online, confirmation bias etc. Many of the guys on the Yamaha threads and Ibanez threads are indeed fan boys and as such they are more likely to have models form across the era’s and might never buy the BB2024 or prestige model but again they own three or four models across the brand/ages. They’re also a breeding ground of enablers feeding into the futile acquisition of multiple basses in the quest of some ‘legend status’ based on ownership and product back catalogue knowledge. 🤣😀

Oh and we get it you like Nordstrand pick ups😀 Maybe Ibanez will make a Prestige pj soon or is that just a NAMM rumour? 

Edited December 29, 2018 by krispn
Poor sleepy spelling

[Cuzzie]

Nords - almost universal except the Cuzzie household, where they would be stored somewhere beneath my skiddy pants.

A lot to be said about basses across the range just like cars from a supermini through to performance/family wagons, or sticking to a couple of high class /niche models like Tesla or in this case Ricks.

Bassist from Clutch has one, saw/heard it live - sounded pretty darn good and Glenn Hughes pops his out every now and again. 

I have always been sort of attracted and sort of not by them, and of course in my formative years may have been swayed by wafts and waves of opinions, but you know what, played one, bloody good bass and bloody good fun, and makes total sense if you are running some form or bite to your signal, thumbs up to it whether the owner is a bell End or not.

Not enough to sway me from my current lot, but very good

[Woodinblack]

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

By selling a MIM Fender, do folk go on to get an USA made Fender? Have Fender sold a bass that they wouldn't have otherwise or have they "cannibalised" a sale of USA Fender?

I assume some do. Hard to know really.

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

The Yamaha BB1024/5 are such a good bass and differ only to BB2024/5 in (1) sonic wood treatments (2) being Japanese rather than Indonesian made - so more expensive labour costs. Very few make the jump from the 1024/5 to 2024/5 which costs three times as much.

Yes, but if there were no cheaper ones would anyone make the jump?

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Folk who buy Ibanez Standard are often underwhelmed by the Barts whereas the big single Nords on Premium range elicit almost universal love. Are Ibby hurting their brand by making the Standard range available? (And why won't they do a P/J in the Premium or Prestige range?!)

They seem to be doing alright compared to some, so I guess they know. And I assume there aren't people writing to them asking for a P/J or they would probably make one. Certainly not something I would be bothered about (and I have a P/J Maruszczyk).

[Woodinblack]

There was a Ric on bass players market round the corner from me for £850 the other day, but it had really been beaten up a lot. I briefly thought about it, decided against it.

[NikNik]

Defo. And not worth the current prices.

[Delberthot]

Could the BB2024/5 have been created as something of an ultimate, almost out of reach bass to sell more BB1024/5 models?

Create an ultimate bass, give or sell at heavily discounted rate to endorsed players to create an awareness and have on your website, Youtube etc and sell a few to paying customers. In the grand scheme of things the BB2024/5 basses weren't expensive as such but were compared to the next level down.

I couldn't see enough of a difference between the models to bring myself to make the jump as I was very happy with my BB1025. I had bought that one on the strength of the BB425 which I also owned.

Alternatively I could be talking complete sloblock 🤔

[Dan Dare]

I lusted after a Ric for years when I were a lad (based on the look and the fact that nothing else would do that Chris Squire sound). Never got one. String spacing is pretty tight - they tend to be preferred by pick players. Pricing is OTT, but if you like/want what they do, nothing comes close.

[BassX2]

Worth it if you mostly play with a pic, I guess.