So, I’m thinking about a new head, Class D with a valve pre....

[Wilco]

Top of my thoughts at the moment are either the new Orange Terror Bass 500 or the GK MB Fusion 500.

Cabs as per my sig below.

Anyone got any experience of similar set ups? Any thoughts on either of those two amps? Alternative suggestions at similar or slightly higher prices?

My TC BH550 sounds great, but pretty sure I can improve on it.

 

[Bobthedog]

You may also want to wait to try the new Mesa WD-800. That is coming out in Jan albeit at around £1,200 (ouch). I am going to give it a play with my Big Twin II.

[danbowskill]

I highly recommend markbass tte 500 (I had the 800,way to loud) if you are after a true valve sounding head with thump.Awesome head.

Think there was one in the for sale section for 400 notes.

[Al Krow]

If you can get hold of a Mesa M6 to try then do; I've not found anything to match it's ability to add a touch of just the right amount of valve pre-amp sparkle to my bass tone followed up by its excellent 600W power amp.

Just wondering whether a pre-amp valve pedal may also be worth exploring? Two Notes Le Bass would be a great starting point here and I'm sure folk could recommend a number of others.

[Dan Dare]

I have a Carvin B1000. They turn up occasionally and not for too much money (Carvin are out of business, so no new ones to be had). I like it a lot - for some things, I prefer it to the AG700. 

[Lozz196]

From the two amps mentioned the Terror is more like a valve amp sound imo, but is limited by its eq - it does sound fantastic though and adding in a preamp pedal adds in some versatility.

The GK, because of its valves is much warmer than the regular GK sound, tho it still sounds like a GK, it’s also more versatile due the on-board eq. 

I think if I were looking at only those two I’d go Terror plus preamp pedal.

[Wilco]

2 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

From the two amps mentioned the Terror is more like a valve amp sound imo, but is limited by its eq

 

I was getting that impression about it’s valve sound too. All my basses are active, so that should help in filling out the EQ.

7 hours ago, Bobthedog said:

You may also want to wait to try the new Mesa WD-800. That is coming out in Jan albeit at around £1,200 (ouch). 

Bloomin’ ouch!! 💷

5 hours ago, danbowskill said:

I highly recommend markbass tte 500

Think there was one in the for sale section for 400 notes.

 

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

If you can get hold of a Mesa M6 to try then do

 

3 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

I have a Carvin B1000. They turn up occasionally and not for too much money 

I’ll buy used basses & cabs, but I have this thing about only buying new amps. Safety & reliability etc. All good heads though.

What about the Darkglass Microtubes 500 anyone? Not a valve pre I know, but Darkglass seem to get rave reviews. Still not as good as a real tube pre amp?

[Al Krow]

Just now, Wilco said:

II’ll buy used basses & cabs, but I have this thing about only buying new amps. Safety & reliability etc. All good heads though.

What about the Darkglass Microtubes 500 anyone? Not a valve pre I know, but Darkglass seem to get rave reviews. Still not as good as a real tube pre amp?

I had the same approach in terms of being cautious about buying used; I guess I've got very much more comfortable with buying used from fellow BCers - they're generally a first rate bunch and you'll get a pretty good idea from the pics and Q&A on the condition of the gear.

As it happens, I have the big brother of the DG M500 i.e. the DG M900 (which I bought used in pretty mint condition from a BCer  ). IMO you can indeed get much of the complex tonal richness of a valve pre-amp by engaging the microtubes drive, sufficiently so for me to move my Two Notes Le Bass valve pre-amp on.

The DG M900 doesn't have quite the "sparkle" of my Mesa M6, but it's a lot more portable! 

Btw if you're after a "true" valve sound, then you're actually going to need a valve power amp rather than a valve pre-amp.

[Cuzzie]

You’ll get a tonne of opinions on this from someone’s personal nirvana, to their utter hatred and your view will be different!

It’s just going to be hard yards of trawling sound bites across ranges and then take time to play in the flesh.

Best and only way, or buy new and if you don’t like return in the policy period.

[Wilco]

10 hours ago, Al Krow said:

I had the same approach in terms of being cautious about buying used; I guess I've got very much more comfortable with buying used from fellow BCers - they're generally a first rate bunch and you'll get a pretty good idea from the pics and Q&A on the condition of the gear.

Btw if you're after a "true" valve sound, then you're actually going to need a valve power amp rather than a valve pre-amp.

I’ve no problem buying from fellow BCers - most of my kit has been bought from here. However, take that Markbass TTE for sale for example. Mighty fine amp i’m sure it is, but judging by the photos it’s a 2011 model so already nearly 8 years old. In my mind I can get a new (ok, different model) amp for circa 50% more & because Amps contain electronics that can fail over time, my personal preference would be for new.

Agreed on full valve sound & power amp too, but the comprise for me there is on weight & portability.

2 hours ago, Cuzzie said:

You’ll get a tonne of opinions on this from someone’s personal nirvana, to their utter hatred and your view will be different!

It’s just going to be hard yards of trawling sound bites across ranges and then take time to play in the flesh.

Best and only way, or buy new and if you don’t like return in the policy period.

A good point, but I just haven’t got the free time to go round trying a load of amps. All I can do is make a best guess informed decision based on t’internet info & any other information I can get hence this thread.

[Al Krow]

Understood (and agreed) about the age thing. My DG M900 was around just 6 months old when I got it used and I tried it out before buying from a fellow BCer. Electronics can certainly get worn with use, for sure. 

Not had one myself, but from feedback from other BC'ers and what you're saying the Genzler Magellan GM800 could well be just the ticket for you. @Osiris did a good little comparative review of a number of amps a while back including the GM800. 

Although I take your point about lack of free time, I'd definitely see if you can pull together a short list and pop into your local store for just a couple of hours. Especially if you're not comfortable with buying used. You're either going to be stuck with your choice for months and/or face quite a write-down when you sell on (unless you return and are still eligible for a refund). 

Having said that, the quality of many D class heads is excellent, so you probably won't go too far wrong with any of them. At the budget end a few folk have bought a Bugera Veyron and been very happy with it. One of the models (T) has a valve preamp and they sell for around £250 to £300 new. 

GLWT search!

Edited December 31, 2018 by Al Krow

[Cuzzie]

Unless it’s urgent and imminent get along to one of the bass bashes advertised on here.

People bring their amps to happily try, and can have great discussions.

If you know what you like, then some amps use similar things/components such as fender tone stacks. Although you may not play the exact amp you want, certainly something similar will give a flavour. Problem with online stuff is you only get a snapshot, twiddle time is king 

[Mudpup]

19 hours ago, Wilco said:

Top of my thoughts at the moment are either the new Orange Terror Bass 500 or the GK MB Fusion 500.

Cabs as per my sig below.

Anyone got any experience of similar set ups? Any thoughts on either of those two amps? Alternative suggestions at similar or slightly higher prices?

My TC BH550 sounds great, but pretty sure I can improve on it.

 

What sort of stuff are you playing? Its easier to dodge some incompatible suggestions if you give us an idea of what you're trying to achieve :-) and what do you think your TC is missing (or needs improving on?) 

I used a GK MB Fusion for a few years - probably did about 100 gigs with it - and eventually moved it on because i figured out i didn't like the class D lack of booty effect after trying most of the usual suspects. Its bloody loud though. I also use similar cabs to you.
I looked at a TC BH as a potential replacement hoping it would be an improvement but it sounded too flat and sterile to my ears compared with the GK - is that what you're finding?
I actually ended up with an Ashdown ABM600. Lovely bit of kit for a grindy rock gig and unusually for an Ashdown ABM had plenty of sparkle and a fixable pillowy bottom end. Great amp. Not massively heavy but not small like your TC either.

BUT
I've since discovered a Quilter Bass Block 800 - if you want tiny, massively loud capability with headroom and a class D that doesn't sound like a class D - i.e it doesn't get compressy and shouty as you crank it up, it just stays hefty, clean and gets physically louder then its worth a look. It doesnt sound or behave like a class D - its more like something with a bit of iron in the power amp. You have to learn the controls for 10 minutes to figure it out cos its a bit different to 'normal' amps. The downside is its a bit naturally treble shy but you can add that in easily and cheaply if you use a preamp pedal or graphic in front of it. The best thing about it is it does warm heft, pant shaking open valveylike booty with ease (if thats what you need....) They're about £480 new if you look around....

And i would totally agree with going secondhand on this forum. You'll find most users are great guys/gals that are easy to deal with and have a common interest. I've been using it for about 7 years and have had nothing but great experiences buying and selling. More importantly you wont lose your shirt if end up with something that doesn't quite do it for you - just turn it round and move it on...

Edited December 31, 2018 by Mudpup

[xgsjx]

From my understanding, a valve pre can be accurately emulated digitally, so it’s probably more of an image thing. It’s the power stage that cannot be emulated as good, especially when it comes to pushing the tubes hard. If there’s such a thing, I’d look at a digital pre & valve power, though I don’t know that it would give any weight benefit. 

I’ve got all valve, but would happily go back to all digital. 

[Guest bassman7755]

18 hours ago, xgsjx said:

From my understanding, a valve pre can be accurately emulated digitally, so it’s probably more of an image thing. It’s the power stage that cannot be emulated as good.

Yep there is no even vaguely technical or sonic reason to use a valve preamp in this day and age, tech-21 invented a fet circuit in the early 80s that is all but indistinguishable from a valve preamp and even does a petty decent impression of a valve power section. Infact SS preamps using this tech often have better drive / grindy / distortion sounds than actual valve preamps (tech 21, darkglass et al). If you just want a bit of "sheen" on the sound then valve preamp is often as good as a FET SS for that 😎.

[Wilco]

On 31/12/2018 at 11:11, Mudpup said:

What sort of stuff are you playing? Its easier to dodge some incompatible suggestions if you give us an idea of what you're trying to achieve 🙂 and what do you think your TC is missing (or needs improving on?) 

I looked at a TC BH as a potential replacement hoping it would be an improvement but it sounded too flat and sterile to my ears compared with the GK - is that what you're finding?

I have eclectic musical tastes, so need an amp that’s a good jack of all trades. I really like my TC. I’ve happily used it on gigs & the various connectivity options are very useful indeed. Great quiet home rehearsal tool. I’m definitely keeping that amp regardless. 

I used to have a modest Hartke LH500 which had a valve pre & solid state power amp. I loved the ‘piano ring’ sound that amp could give out, & it’s that i’m trying to replicate I suppose, but on an amp that does not weigh as much as a car!! 😆

Your comments about the Quilter echo what i’ve read about them, & I think I would miss the top end a bit. No doubt a great amp, but probably not for me.

On 31/12/2018 at 17:14, xgsjx said:

From my understanding, a valve pre can be accurately emulated digitally, so it’s probably more of an image thing. It’s the power stage that cannot be emulated as good, especially when it comes to pushing the tubes hard.

Did not know that - interesting. Would go some way to explain why the Darkglass gear sounds so good?

I’ve just spotted a Markbass TTE801 at a good new price. Wondering if that might be sonically similar to the LH500? It might be too vintage for me though & possibly lacking in top end. Notice it has the old school VLE filter control on, but not the midcut VPF one. 

[Mudpup]

4 minutes ago, Wilco said:

I have eclectic musical tastes, so need an amp that’s a good jack of all trades. I really like my TC. I’ve happily used it on gigs & the various connectivity options are very useful indeed. Great quiet home rehearsal tool. I’m definitely keeping that amp regardless. 

I used to have a modest Hartke LH500 which had a valve pre & solid state power amp. I loved the ‘piano ring’ sound that amp could give out, & it’s that i’m trying to replicate I suppose, but on an amp that does not weigh as much as a car!! 😆

Your comments about the Quilter echo what i’ve read about them, & I think I would miss the top end a bit. No doubt a great amp, but probably not for me.

Did not know that - interesting. Would go some way to explain why the Darkglass gear sounds so good?

I’ve just spotted a Markbass TTE801 at a good new price. Wondering if that might be sonically similar to the LH500? It might be too vintage for me though & possibly lacking in top end. Notice it has the old school VLE filter control on, but not the midcut VPF one. 

I had a Hartke LH500 for a while - you're right, lovely piano sort of clean sound available from it. So it sounds like clean and sparkly but with rich harmonics is what you're after?

Maybe a Genz Benz Shuttle 9.2 or upwards would work for you if you can find one - they pop up on here sometimes. They do clean very well and the valve adds a bit of fruit rather than grind. Or you may well find the GK MB Fusion will do it as you first thought. The Terror Bass is probably a bit fuzzy rather than clean though. Theres a few good deals on Orange 4 Strokes that have been floating around recently and a few guys on here have them incoming - that could be worth a look (apparently it does a clean version of the Terror Bass sound)

[TheGreek]

I had a DG M900 which I did not get on with. It isn't going to be everybody's Cappuccino and is probably more suited to a dirty, grungy tone than say a clean or phat tonal palette. If you don't need a dirty tone then the left hand side of the amp is pretty much redundant. A few did change hands fairly quickly shortly after their release despite initial rave reviews. I'd suggest trying one first.

I think that a better, all round amp would be something from the Klockenklang range - if you're able to borrow one then do - IMO a more versatile amp that the DG.

I noticed a few nominations for Ashdown which are enjoying a resurgence in popularity. Made in the UK with great customer service and membership here on BC - not overly expensive either - they do represent great VFM.

[Al Krow]

3 hours ago, TheGreek said:

I had a DG M900 which I did not get on with. It isn't going to be everybody's Cappuccino and is probably more suited to a dirty, grungy tone than say a clean or phat tonal palette. 

Nope, it really is just fine on clean too! In fact, I probably currently use it more on clean than I do with dirt engaged, but it's nice to have the option of both.

3 hours ago, TheGreek said:

I think that a better, all round amp would be something from the Klockenklang range - if you're able to borrow one then do - IMO a more versatile amp that the DG.

Did you mean Glockenklang?

You'd hope they would be good, given their price point.

More versatile in what sense?

3 hours ago, TheGreek said:

If you don't need a dirty tone then the left hand side of the amp is pretty much redundant.

Not really. The microtubes engine can work in a couple of ways:

a) either to provide you with a full on dirt, or

b) with the dirt set low it adds complex tonal harmonics to make the sound less "clean" (or as some folks describe it "sterile" which I guess literally means incredibly clean / germ free ) and which acts tonally in similar fashion to a valve pre-amp. A number of DG M900 owners have their amps set with "low dirt" as their always-on option.

Tbf Mick had his for a few weeks and didn't get on with it - fair enough: not all gear is for everyone otherwise we would have identical rigs! There are plenty of us, however, who have had our DG M900s for 12 months or more and are very happy with it. Combined with my VK cab, it absolutely kills! 

Edited January 3, 2019 by Al Krow

[Cuzzie]

Clean on the DG is good, but it definitely is more sterile and possibly slightly thinner than others out there.

[Woodinblack]

I have a TC RH450 and a Ashdown CTM100. The RH is a lot more controllable and a lot more portable, they both sound good but different. I take the CTM out if I am feeling enthusiastic, and I have space, otherwise I take the RH out. I doubt anyone in the audience can tell the difference, but I think the CTM sounds better (although the RH does overdriven preamp better), a bit fuller

Strangely enough, I play the CTM in the house, the RH is always in its gig bag ready to go.

[walshy]

14 hours ago, TheGreek said:

I had a DG M900 which I did not get on with. It isn't going to be everybody's Cappuccino and is probably more suited to a dirty, grungy tone than say a clean or phat tonal palette. If you don't need a dirty tone then the left hand side of the amp is pretty much redundant. A few did change hands fairly quickly shortly after their release despite initial rave reviews. I'd suggest trying one first.

I think that a better, all round amp would be something from the Klockenklang range - if you're able to borrow one then do - IMO a more versatile amp that the DG.

I noticed a few nominations for Ashdown which are enjoying a resurgence in popularity. Made in the UK with great customer service and membership here on BC - not overly expensive either - they do represent great VFM.

Yeah didn't get on with my DG head, it just wasn't what I thought it would be ( couldn't try before I bought) but other rave about them so horses for courses! The Quilter was pretty damn mean for the size and did the job. I coupled that with a Two Notes and it was mega!

[dave_bass5]

Ive just seen the new STU amp from MB. SS and Tube pre amp. not cheap so probably not something ill get, but it looks nice.

http://www.markbass.it/product-detail/mb-stu-amp-1000/

[andyonbass]

You're welcome to come and have a go on my Handbox R400. Should tick all the boxes although I'm not sure if they are still available....I'm Swindon based...

[Wilco]

On 02/01/2019 at 15:22, Mudpup said:

you may well find the GK MB Fusion will do it as you first thought. The Terror Bass is probably a bit fuzzy rather than clean though. Theres a few good deals on Orange 4 Strokes that have been floating around recently and a few guys on here have them incoming - that could be worth a look (apparently it does a clean version of the Terror Bass sound)

The MB Fusion is still on my radar, although have changed my mind I think on the Terror bass. Perhaps too much of a one trick pony. I really liked the look of the 4 Stroke. Very similar to the LH500 but better spec. Unfortunately same size & weight!

23 hours ago, TheGreek said:

I had a DG M900 which I did not get on with. It isn't going to be everybody's Cappuccino and is probably more suited to a dirty, grungy tone than say a clean or phat tonal palette. If you don't need a dirty tone then the left hand side of the amp is pretty much redundant. A few did change hands fairly quickly shortly after their release despite initial rave reviews. I'd suggest trying one first.

I think that a better, all round amp would be something from the Klockenklang range - if you're able to borrow one then do - IMO a more versatile amp that the DG.

I noticed a few nominations for Ashdown which are enjoying a resurgence in popularity. Made in the UK with great customer service and membership here on BC - not overly expensive either - they do represent great VFM.

I think i’ve reached the same conclusion on the Darkglass. I think that’s out too. I’ve got a Glockenklang pre amp in my Elwood 4 & it’s epic. Unfortunately so are their amp prices! 💷 😬 I don’t know why, but I look at the Ashdown website & just can’t get excited about what I see. 🤭

8 hours ago, walshy said:

 The Quilter was pretty damn mean for the size and did the job. I coupled that with a Two Notes and it was mega!

The Quilter is back under consideration! When I thought about it more, I could put my Bass Fly pedal in front of it for additional sound shaping..... 🤔

3 hours ago, dave_bass5 said:

Ive just seen the new STU amp from MB. SS and Tube pre amp. not cheap so probably not something ill get, but it looks nice.

http://www.markbass.it/product-detail/mb-stu-amp-1000/

Hmmm, that looks interesting. A bit 80’s on the styling front, but like the spec. Where did you see the price?

2 hours ago, andyonbass said:

You're welcome to come and have a go on my Handbox R400. Should tick all the boxes although I'm not sure if they are still available....I'm Swindon based...

I think they are still available - there is a website anyway. Yes, good spec & looks a great amp. Can’t see a UK dealer though, which probably kills it for me. (thank you for the offer to try yours out though)

Anyone know if the MB TTE 801 can do a ‘modern’ sound, or is it purely aimed at a vintage sound?