Ruck Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) Played a venue last night, that Ive wanted to play for the last 20 years but never got the chance until now. Played far grander venues since but this one has always been on the bucket list since I was 14. Ive seen bands at the venue in question and theyve had a great sound, so I know its possible. So after sound check I was very happy with the stage sound and my tone was exactly to my taste. Soundman requested Pre-EQ'd DI which I gave him. The sound out front was just a messy drone of sub bass with no definition, dynamic or any good qualities..... How do Soundmen get it so wrong? After the gig people came up to me saying they went right to the front to see if my tone was as bad as the FOH mix and the shocked to find my stage sound was totally different and actually decent... So there we go, 20 year wait over only to have no one hear a single note of what I was actually playing yay! Not playing that place again unless I bring my own soundman... How do I go about avoiding this without actually hiring our own soundman? Edited January 1, 2019 by Ruck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Not just you...I went to see UB40 at UoH - their own sound crew - absolutely abysmal sound - couldn't hear the horns or the keys, just muddy drum and bass. You'd think that a "professional" sound crew would get it right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruck Posted January 1, 2019 Author Share Posted January 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said: They get what they're given from me, which is always Post. Yup next time Im going to have to insist this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispn Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Often the problem isn't what you're giving them its what they do with it. Even giving them your preferred sound they can still mangle it up. And to all the good sound engineers out there keep doing the good work! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollie 55 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, krispn said: Often the problem isn't what you're giving them its what they do with it. Even giving them your preferred sound they can still mangle it up. And to all the good sound engineers out there keep doing the good work! its so easy to blame the sound guy some places and other factors can have there effects 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispn Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Yeah I totally understand the weirdness of some rooms/venues and I've played a few dodgy rooms in my time but the job of the sound engineer is to mitigate issues, especially if it's the 'in house' engineer - there's an expectation they know the room and its deficiencies. I've no idea if the tech in this case was just hired in for the night but to get it so wrong -sub bassy is how the OP described it - then some responsibility has to be taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollie 55 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, krispn said: Yeah I totally understand the weirdness of some rooms/venues and I've played a few dodgy rooms in my time but the job of the sound engineer is to mitigate issues, especially if it's the 'in house' engineer - there's an expectation they know the room and its deficiencies. I've no idea if the tech in this case was just hired in for the night but to get it so wrong -sub bassy is how the OP described it - then some responsibility has to be taken. as a bass player an a sound guy. i know how you feel if its to sub bassy muddy than i have to agree with you sound guy at fault. mr feedback is our challange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_c2 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Hmmmm, 2 things spring to mind: It shouldn't be an "us" and "them" situation; and that if you want something done properly, do it yourself (this might mean, the band itself has a soundman). It is no surprise that the first "extra" person a band typically takes on, after the members who play instruments, is a dedicated soundman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollie 55 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, paul_c2 said: Hmmmm, 2 things spring to mind: It shouldn't be an "us" and "them" situation; and that if you want something done properly, do it yourself (this might mean, the band itself has a soundman). It is no surprise that the first "extra" person a band typically takes on, after the members who play instruments, is a dedicated soundman. ur right it shouldnt be us and them situation but we have what we have so sad but this is the way it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispn Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 One of my gigs is a choir and band thing and the 'musical directors' always complained about the sound guy but they kept using him? We consistently told them to find someone else or us the in house guys whenever possible to compare. I think they might now default to a new guy it gets tricky though as we have to balance a full band volume and about 8-10 mic'c to pick up the choir. It'd be a nightmare to engineer! I was gonna add this in my previous reply - I always come to a gig prepared and take responsibility for my own sound - I can eq myself to fit in with the band and compensate for big hollow stages etc I ask what the sound guy needs from me and am happy to be directed for the overall sound mix. Often on these gigs it's not DI'd and the amps on stage have to loud enough to fill the room which can cause it's own issues! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 I'll always have the soundman listen to my on stage sound first then tell him to bring up the FOH bass sound and i'll listen to see if he matches the sound i'll be hearing. Most good sound guys can do that quite easily and i always give them post EQ too. You should be able to tell even from the stage if the FOH sound is near what you expect. If its sub bassy then i would expect to have heard that at sound check and would say something. Maybe you didn't have the luxury of a sound check and i don't know your gig circumstances so difficult to know who is 100% to blame. Shame your childhod dream gig is ruined by FOH sound. I'd be furious. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollie 55 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 5 minutes ago, krispn said: One of my gigs is a choir and band thing and the 'musical directors' always complained about the sound guy but they kept using him? We consistently told them to find someone else or us the in house guys whenever possible to compare. I think they might now default to a new guy it gets tricky though as we have to balance a full band volume and about 8-10 mic'c to pick up the choir. It'd be a nightmare to engineer! I was gonna add this in my previous reply - I always come to a gig prepared and take responsibility for my own sound - I can eq myself to fit in with the band and compensate for big hollow stages etc I ask what the sound guy needs from me and am happy to be directed for the overall sound mix. Often on these gigs it's not DI'd and the amps on stage have to loud enough to fill the room which can cause it's own issues! nothing is ever straightforward 😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispn Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 True dat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispn Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Our guitarist does but i fear if I did that they'd have me out at the front of the stage and not cowering at the back in the shadows where I prefer! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 I feel for you @Ruck, dream gig ruined by someone not taking any care and attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_c2 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, krispn said: Our guitarist does but i fear if I did that they'd have me out at the front of the stage and not cowering at the back in the shadows where I prefer! Say the battery's gone flat and you have to plug in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollie 55 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, paul_c2 said: Say the battery's gone flat and you have to plug in. its the battery that old chestnut. again😀😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E sharp Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 I took my daughter to her first proper gig last year - her choice was Download . I would say around 80% of the bands had a shockingly bad sound - I've no idea what these guys do 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollie 55 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 1 minute ago, E sharp said: I took my daughter to her first proper gig last year - her choice was Download . I would say around 80% of the bands had a shockingly bad sound - I've no idea what these guys do no thats just modern music😀 😃 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewblack Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) I've had some great experiences and some worryingly poor. Luckily enough being a recovering alcoholic I've learned the value of acceptance. Accept the things I cannot change, is the motto by which I have to live. I can't change a sound engineer or how they do their job any more than they can change how I play the bass. Of course it sucks if they get a crappy bass sound, but I have to accept it so I do. The one rule I've always maintained is to shake them by the hand and thank them for what they've done for me. I never know when they will next be in charge of making my band sound as good as they can so I try to keep them on side as much as possible. None of this in any way belittles the OP nor his disappointment which I entirely understand. I can only speak to my own experience. Edited January 1, 2019 by stewblack 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollie 55 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Just now, stewblack said: I've had some great experiences and some worryingly poor. Luckily enough being a recovering alcoholic I've learned the value of acceptance. Accept the things I cannot change, is the motto by which I have to live. I can't change a sound engineer or how they do their job any more than they can change how I play the bass. Of course it sucks if they get a crappy bass sound, but I have to accept it so I do. The one rule I've always maintained is to shake them by the hand and thank them for what they've done for me. I never know when they will next be in charge of making my band sound as good as possible so I try to keep them on side as much as possible. None of this in any way belittles the OP nor his disappointment which I entirely understand. I can only speak to my own experience. cool this is a good way to be i like your style 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger2611 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Part of the problem seems to be the quickness of a soundcheck, if you are lucky enough to get one, as a support act it's usually "bass" I hit two notes "thank you, Guitar" and that's my soundcheck! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruck Posted January 1, 2019 Author Share Posted January 1, 2019 2 hours ago, stewblack said: I've had some great experiences and some worryingly poor. Luckily enough being a recovering alcoholic I've learned the value of acceptance. Accept the things I cannot change, is the motto by which I have to live. I can't change a sound engineer or how they do their job any more than they can change how I play the bass. Of course it sucks if they get a crappy bass sound, but I have to accept it so I do. The one rule I've always maintained is to shake them by the hand and thank them for what they've done for me. I never know when they will next be in charge of making my band sound as good as they can so I try to keep them on side as much as possible. None of this in any way belittles the OP nor his disappointment which I entirely understand. I can only speak to my own experience. Oh I do all that you mention, every where I play. Always thank the soundman. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruck Posted January 1, 2019 Author Share Posted January 1, 2019 25 minutes ago, Roger2611 said: Part of the problem seems to be the quickness of a soundcheck, if you are lucky enough to get one, as a support act it's usually "bass" I hit two notes "thank you, Guitar" and that's my soundcheck! Headlining a NYE gig at the major venue of my hometown. They had 3 hours to get it right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruck Posted January 1, 2019 Author Share Posted January 1, 2019 3 hours ago, dmccombe7 said: I'll always have the soundman listen to my on stage sound first then tell him to bring up the FOH bass sound and i'll listen to see if he matches the sound i'll be hearing. Most good sound guys can do that quite easily and i always give them post EQ too. You should be able to tell even from the stage if the FOH sound is near what you expect. If its sub bassy then i would expect to have heard that at sound check and would say something. Maybe you didn't have the luxury of a sound check and i don't know your gig circumstances so difficult to know who is 100% to blame. Shame your childhod dream gig is ruined by FOH sound. I'd be furious. Dave I just trust in the soundman too much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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