Is it an 8 string or a 4 string?

[Al Krow]

Bit of fun for the new year...

One of these clips is an 8 string bass the other is a 4 string + Digitech Mosaic pedal.

Can you easily tell which is which?  

8 String A.mp3

8 String B.mp3

Edited January 5, 2019 by Al Krow

[Maude]

At a guess I'd say the second one is the actual eight string as at the beginning the I think I can hear single strings sometimes rather than both courses, not using headphones though. Either way they're both hell of a close. 

[Roger2611]

I think B is the 8 string, to me clip A sounds like an effect trying to emulate the real thing, either way I much prefer B

 

[Al Krow]

Just a small sample of poll respondents so far (btw - thanks very much for taking the time to listen and share your thoughts, to those who have). Kinda interesting nonetheless, in that so far only one person has said it was easy to distinguish the 8 string from the 4 string AND also correctly identified the 8 string!  

=> 3/4 therefore finding that the Mosaic does a pretty good job and is probably sufficiently close for use in a live band mix (and without doubt it's a lot more convenient to use a pedal than setting up and swapping in a second bass mid set).

Be interesting to see if this early pattern continues when we've got a few more poll responses in. (It's an anonymous poll btw!) 

Edited January 5, 2019 by Al Krow

[Maude]

But you've just given the game away, haven't you 🤔

[rollie 55]

4 STRING

[Al Krow]

15 hours ago, Maude said:

But you've just given the game away, haven't you 🤔

Haha - but not entirely sure I have, was merely commenting on what folk were hearing after just the initial 4 responses.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Al Krow

[rollie 55]

4 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Haha - but not entirely sure I have, was just commenting on what folk were hearing after 4 responses 

 

oh yes

[Al Krow]

23 hours ago, Maude said:

At a guess I'd say the second one is the actual eight string as at the beginning the I think I can hear single strings sometimes rather than both courses, not using headphones though. Either way they're both hell of a close. 

A majority agree with you that the Mosaic comes close!

21 hours ago, Roger2611 said:

I think B is the 8 string, to me clip A sounds like an effect trying to emulate the real thing, either way I much prefer B

...Although if Roger is correct that clip B is the 8 string, then it sounds like I shouldn't be thinking of moving my 8 string on any time soon  

[HazBeen]

I use an 8 string for my Pearl Jam tribute, 3 or so songs. Sometimes when I am lazy I also emulate. Must admit that the Mosaic does a good job, but I find that longer notes and unprocessed (no fx) more easily expose my emulation. 

Question for you, did you intentionally process the sound and keep the notes shorter or was this “coincidence”?

[Al Krow]

25 minutes ago, HazBeen said:

Question for you, did you intentionally process the sound and keep the notes shorter or was this “coincidence”?

So I was trying to get the clips as similar as possible in the way I was phrasing (obviously an 8 string will always be a little different from how you play a 4 string) but I guess coincidence in choosing a relatively quick phrase / short notes

Didn't fully understand what you meant by "intentionally processing" the sound - could you elaborate please?

What 8 string do you have (hadn't appreciated you were also an 8 string owner!)?

Edited January 6, 2019 by Al Krow

[Cosmo Valdemar]

I found them easy to tell apart, but the 4 string with effect was still pretty good.

[HazBeen]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

So I was trying to get the clips as similar as possible in the way I was phrasing (obviously an 8 string will always be a little different from how you play a 4 string) but I guess coincidence in choosing a relatively quick phrase / short notes

Didn't fully understand what you meant by "intentionally processing" the sound - could you elaborate please?

What 8 string do you have (hadn't appreciated you were also an 8 string owner!)?

If you do the PJ tribute thing right, you need fretless and 8 string

I had a Dean Rhapsody 8 for several years,  nowadays have an LTD B208 FM (modded with Aggie pups and OBP3) as it is significantly lighter affair.

unless my ear infection and iPad speakers are decieving me I hear some dirt and modulation and some EQ?

[Maude]

3 minutes ago, HazBeen said:

If you do the PJ tribute thing right, you need fretless and 8 string

Surely a 12 string for Jeremy as well 

[Al Krow]

18 minutes ago, HazBeen said:

If you do the PJ tribute thing right, you need fretless and 8 string

I had a Dean Rhapsody 8 for several years,  nowadays have an LTD B208 FM (modded with Aggie pups and OBP3) as it is significantly lighter affair.

unless my ear infection and iPad speakers are decieving me I hear some dirt and modulation and some EQ?

Ok thanks - not come across the LTD B208, will check it out on google now then  

The 8 string in my case is a Schecter Stiletto 8 and just had a thumbs up from one of the family on the colour choice (which is a relief as my first inclination had been to go for black!)

Were you hearing dirt / modulation and EQ on both clips or just the non 8 string one? The only difference in setting between the two clips was that the Mosaic was engaged on one clip and not engaged on the other (so any additional differences over and above what the Mosaic was doing should have been just down to the difference between the two basses). The Mosaic does add a touch of modulation itself btw to imitate the fact that the octave strings will themselves not be 100% in sync.

[HazBeen]

10 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Ok thanks - not come across the LTD B208, will check it out on google now then  

The 8 string in my case is a Schecter Stiletto 8 and just had a thumbs up from one of the family on the colour choice (which is a relief as my first inclination had been to go for black!)

Were you hearing dirt / modulation and EQ on both clips or just the non 8 string one? The only difference in setting between the two clips was that the Mosaic was engaged on one clip and not engaged on the other (so any additional differences over and above what the Mosaic was doing should have been just down to the difference between the two basses). The Mosaic does add a touch of modulation itself btw to imitate the fact that the octave strings will themselves not be 100% in sync.

Interesting..... I heard a bit of dirt on both (a touch), on the 8 natural chorus but also on the emulated 4. I thought you had done that, but if I understand correctly that is the Mosaic doing it? Very clever as that is exactly what you need to get it close to the natural chorus an 8 string has. The EQ I am hearing is probably the bass preamp.

Going to check the Mosaic out some more, very very interesting.

[HazBeen]

39 minutes ago, Maude said:

Surely a 12 string for Jeremy as well 

If you want 100% yes, although I drew the line at 8 ..... I already have to lug 3 basses to every gig.

[Maude]

1 minute ago, HazBeen said:

If you want 100% yes, although I drew the line at 8 ..... I already have to lug 3 basses to every gig.

Can't argue with that 

[Al Krow]

35 minutes ago, HazBeen said:

... on the 8 natural chorus but also on the emulated 4. I thought you had done that, but if I understand correctly that is the Mosaic doing it? Very clever as that is exactly what you need to get it close to the natural chorus an 8 string has. 

Yup, you've understood exactly what the Mosaic is up to.

I was wondering whether there would be benefit in adding an actual chorus (rather than the 'touch of chorus' which the Mosaic is delivering) to get a fuller sound and therefore closer to a 12 string, but not having an actual 12 string to compare it to...although now I come to think of it, I do know a chap with one who lives in SE London in amongst his other awesome bits of gear. He even has a decent cab these days to play them through 😀

Edited January 6, 2019 by Al Krow

[EMG456]

I'm assuming I'm correct (LOL which is what I always do!) in that clip B is the actual 8 string bass. I found it immediately obvious but then again, I've been a 8 string owner since 1980 so I'm very familiar with the sound.

I heard a lot more dirt and general fuzziness in clip A which presumably is the pedal trying to disguise its limitations. To be honest, I think you could probably do a better emulation yourself using most multi-fx units these days - the Roland V-bass does quite a passable 8-string. For live performance though, I would just use the real thing if you have one. You'll get the proper sound and the punters will get the visual clues. Make sure you have a front of house soundman who will not mangle it out of all recognition trying to make it sound like a Fender Precision!

[Al Krow]

@EMG456 what 8 string are you playing? Is it a mainstay of your set and are you playing mostly originals?

Any tips on how to get the most out of an 8 string? I'm very much new to the game, having only got my hands on an 8 string for the first time a few months back. In particular, do you always add in the octave string or prefer to mix it up using the just the root strings as a normal 4 string bass? 

If you've got any clips of you playing an 8 live then please do share (and that goes more widely to any other BCers)! 

I guess John Entwistle and John Paul Jones are still the most famous 8 string bass players although I've not found much in the way of clips of either of them playing one live. (There's a decent one of JPJ playing "Tidal", but actually on a 10 string!) 

[Al Krow]

59 minutes ago, EMG456 said:

To be honest, I think you could probably do a better emulation yourself using most multi-fx units these days... 

Actually that's a good challenge to put to @HazBeen who is much further down the line in getting to grips with the capabilities of his Helix than I am with mine  

[EMG456]

@Al Krow I have an Ibanez Studio 8 which I bought new in 1980. Here's the thing- it has never really found a musical home with me. I have noodled on it in the house and I once in a blue moon take it to a gig and let it rip but the sound is so different to a standard bass that I find it's all but impossible to slip it into the usual situations. By comparison with almost any other bass it sounds loud and brash if you're using it to play the standard basslines. 

So I think you would be looking at using it in certain situations, with parts written specifically to suit an 8 string. For me it would be too much to play it all night. It's such a big sound that much like what happens when I play Chapman Stick on some songs, the rest of the band would likely have to adjust what they play to take account of the new sonic landscape.

I play finger style, so it's always both strings at once for me and I can't imagine how you could cleanly and solidly select just the lower string whilst still playing fluently but no doubt someone with a better facility than myself might be able to do it!

I have only ever recorded once with it and the song never made it past the demo stage, so I'm afraid I have no evidence for the court! This thread has however minded me to dig it out and take it to a rehearsal. The folky band I'm playing with just now would probably be a good setting for it and in any event I will enjoy the looks on their faces as I once again bring something odd to the party!

In terms of recorded 8 strings, Chris Squire played one occasionally and I remember Greg Lake had a beautiful Alembic 8 although whether he recorded with it, I have no idea.

[Al Krow]

18 minutes ago, EMG456 said:

@Al Krow I have an Ibanez Studio 8 which I bought new in 1980. By comparison with almost any other bass it sounds loud and brash if you're using it to play the standard basslines. 

So I think you would be looking at using it in certain situations, with parts written specifically to suit an 8 string. For me it would be too much to play it all night. It's such a big sound that much like what happens when I play Chapman Stick on some songs, the rest of the band would likely have to adjust what they play to take account of the new sonic landscape.

Aha! I'm a massive Ibanez fan, but given that Studio 8s are both discontinued and relatively rare beasts and the fact that a Schecter Stiletto Studio 8 (which for me is just so damned good looking!) came up at the right time, I didn't go with Ibanez for this one. Have to say I've not been disappointed thus far with the Schecter.

18 minutes ago, EMG456 said:

I play finger style, so it's always both strings at once for me and I can't imagine how you could cleanly and solidly select just the lower string whilst still playing fluently but no doubt someone with a better facility than myself might be able to do it!

I'm mostly a finger player too, but I've found it a lot easier using a pick to access the the separate strings - using an up-stroke for the root string and a down-stroke for both strings. I've attached a clip of an earlier effort of me playing first the root and then both to illustrate. If you get a chance maybe give it a go and let me know what you think?

18 minutes ago, EMG456 said:

I have only ever recorded once with it and the song never made it past the demo stage, so I'm afraid I have no evidence for the court! This thread has however minded me to dig it out and take it to a rehearsal. The folky band I'm playing with just now would probably be a good setting for it and in any event I will enjoy the looks on their faces as I once again bring something odd to the party!

In terms of recorded 8 strings, Chris Squire played one occasionally and I remember Greg Lake had a beautiful Alembic 8 although whether he recorded with it, I have no idea.

I'm glad the thread has encouraged you to revisit your earlier piece (and do feel free to share it, if you would like to - it will almost certainly be better than my quick "efforts"!)

I think John Entwistle's 8 string was also an Alembic now you come to mention it  

Schecter8#02.mp3

Edited January 6, 2019 by Al Krow

[HazBeen]

15 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Actually that's a good challenge to put to @HazBeen who is much further down the line in getting to grips with the capabilities of his Helix than I am with mine  

That is actually why I was checking the Mosaic out (what does it do). Turns out is is a doubler with a short delay (I would assume around the 20ms mark) and the octave up. I know my Helix has both, so I am going to try to get my current “faux” 8 string patch to the next level

wrt “real” 8 and 12 string, Tom Peterson and Doug Pinnick are worth checking. I also 2nd the comment about using fingers, you need to adapt technique but I really prefer the sound of fingers on my 8 sometimes.