Can someone tell me what makes up the £8k difference in price between these two basses?

[lemmywinks]

48 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said:

Possibly something that Hans Peter Wilfer won't falsely claim to have invented first.

Warwick > Spector though.........

[Chienmortbb]

Came to this late but back to the original post, why pay over £2K for any second-hand bass?

[Wolverinebass]

6 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

Came to this late but back to the original post, why pay over £2K for any second-hand bass?

If you want a Wal or Alembic, good luck getting them for less.

[BigRedX]

25 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

Came to this late but back to the original post, why pay over £2K for any second-hand bass?

If you don't understand then those bases over £2k are not for you.

[Woodinblack]

Why pay over £n for anything? because the thing is worth over £n to you.

 

[EBS_freak]

29 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

Came to this late but back to the original post, why pay over £2K for any second-hand bass?

For when you want your Ferrari and can't afford the new price... or you can afford it - but don't want to sit on a waiting list for months/years...? ...or both...

[Grangur]

On 06/01/2019 at 18:25, Wilco said:

Honest question. Not a pop at the seller who after all is selling both. £8849 (to be exact) is not exactly loose change! 

http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Fodera_Emperor_II_Elite_5.html

http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/SH_Maruszczyk_Sputnik_5.html

Yes, obviously there are wood & spec differences but where is nearly £9k of difference?

Bass No.2 is great. It's well made. Phenomenal value for money and the customer will be delighted. The wood may be kiln seasoned and they may well buy timber in bulk. Almost all timber will be used - as little waste as possible.

Bass No.1 has probably gone through the makers buying timber that has been naturally seasoned. It may also have been seasoned in a more "domestic" setting too - so when the instrument comes indoors and sits in a warm room there will be less chance of movement in the wood through further drying. 
Pieces of wood, when purchased, will have been hand selected. Much of the wood the dealer will have offered, may have been discarded as not being right for the look, of because of unattractive features - this all takes time. (Time = $)  When being worked, if a piece warps, it will be thrown and they'll start again. etc. etc

The end result is the Maruszczyk looks great it will make the customer happy etc.

The Fodera oozes style. The woods will have a more consistent grain, The colour tone of the woods are better matched for showing each other off. The joints won't simply work, but they will be a true marriage of the perfectly flat surfaces. More care may have been taken in the positioning of the bridge, frets etc. etc etc.

But as others have said, in actual result of how an average bass player will get a good bass line in "Mustang Sally" at the Dog & Duck...  It's a case of diminishing returns.

That said my Bro in Law is a pro cellist. His cheapest cello cost more than the Fodera, and that's over 100 years old, so it's not even new!!  His most expensive cost more than most folk's good bass collection. So, we're really lucky to be able to buy very cheap instruments such as Custom Shop Fenders.

[EBS_freak]

Is this true though? Or is it part of the Fodera hype that makes people think it's true?

[Grangur]

3 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Is this true though? Or is it part of the Fodera hype that makes people think it's true?

If Fodera don't put much effort into wood selection, what's your theory on how they get such good looking grain?

How do you think they get the body wood contrasting beautifully with the top wood and the fingerboard looking stunning against thr top? 

Pure luck as wood is randomly pulled from a pile of off-cuts?

[BreadBin]

I've never heard of anyone complaining about poor quality hardware on a Fodera...

[EBS_freak]

16 minutes ago, Grangur said:

If Fodera don't put much effort into wood selection, what's your theory on how they get such good looking grain?

How do you think they get the body wood contrasting beautifully with the top wood and the fingerboard looking stunning against thr top? 

Pure luck as wood is randomly pulled from a pile of off-cuts?

There's plenty of custom builders that do similar... It's a big reason why people commission basses... And for those builders that just build for stock, the wood they put out is hardly driftwood. I think Fodera is being given too much credit for choosing nice pieces of wood.

[lemmywinks]

1 hour ago, Grangur said:

If Fodera don't put much effort into wood selection, what's your theory on how they get such good looking grain?

How do you think they get the body wood contrasting beautifully with the top wood and the fingerboard looking stunning against thr top? 

Pure luck as wood is randomly pulled from a pile of off-cuts?

They aren't doing anything different from basically every other custom builder, all of them have some exceptional wood to choose from and select nice pieces for each individual build. I think you're giving them far too much credit for doing what boutique builders are supposed to do - they get nice blanks of wood from their chosen supplier, there's no special mystic selection process.

[lemmywinks]

Here's a Shuker which with all the fancy options will likely set you back over £4k, a higher spec and more striking instrument than the £15k Fodera for me:

Edited January 10, 2019 by lemmywinks

[Frank Blank]

17 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

Here's a Shuker which with all the fancy options will likely set you back over £4k, a higher spec and more striking instrument than the £15k Fodera for me:

Does it come with the ‘surprise’ snapping neck?

[lemmywinks]

1 minute ago, Frank Blank said:

Does it come with the ‘surprise’ snapping neck?

One free with every purchase!

[4000]

When I was last in The Gallery Martin was fitting a new board to a Fodera. It originally had a rosewood or possibly ebony board and the owner wanted maple with blocks. I can only assume the owner thought that Martin would do as good a job as Fodera, and last time I looked, a custom Sei bass was half the price, if that. But having said that, if it must be a Fodera, go for it. 

[Wolverinebass]

1 hour ago, lemmywinks said:

Here's a Shuker which with all the fancy options will likely set you back over £4k, a higher spec and more striking instrument than the £15k Fodera for me:

Totally agree. I don't even like 5 strings and that is a beautiful bass. I remember playing one like it at the bass guitar show a couple of years ago. Similar wood, but left naturally blonde. That was an amazing bass and a "step away from the vehicle" moment. 

[Wilco]

4 hours ago, Grangur said:

If Fodera don't put much effort into wood selection, what's your theory on how they get such good looking grain?

How do you think they get the body wood contrasting beautifully with the top wood and the fingerboard looking stunning against thr top? 

True enough, but why can Maruszczyk do that on a new bass which is way cheaper?

Just seen this;-

http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/MARUSZCZYK_Sputnik_5a_Burl_Walnut.html

Not just a few hundred quid cheaper - over £7000 cheaper. Seven Grand!!! 🤔

[Wolverinebass]

7 minutes ago, Wilco said:

True enough, but why can Maruszczyk do that on a new bass which is way cheaper?

Just seen this;-

http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/MARUSZCZYK_Sputnik_5a_Burl_Walnut.html

Not just a few hundred quid cheaper - over £7000 cheaper. Seven Grand!!! 🤔

It's probably damaged stock. Look at that bass! It's been melted like a marshmallow over a fire.... Oh, it's a singlecut. 

But yeah, 7 grand cheaper.

[Woodinblack]

45 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said:

Totally agree. I don't even like 5 strings and that is a beautiful bass. 

I do like 5 string and that has too many for me

But the 5 string version of that he made was good too

[Hellzero]

8 hours ago, Wilco said:

True enough, but why can Maruszczyk do that on a new bass which is way cheaper?

Just seen this;-

http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/MARUSZCZYK_Sputnik_5a_Burl_Walnut.html

Not just a few hundred quid cheaper - over £7000 cheaper. Seven Grand!!! 🤔

 

On 06/01/2019 at 19:57, Hellzero said:

You got it quite right @NJE, but the main reason for this price difference is called cupidity on the seller side and stupidity on the buyer side.

And the Fodera team has not such extraordinary luthiers, that said. If these guys were so terrific they would do a differential fretboard dressing and certainly not that stupid unscientific string anchorage called "extended B"...

Any real luthier knowing his job will build you a terrific bass, with terrific woods, extraordinary pickups and fantastic preamp for 3000 to 5000 quids, depending on the number of strings you want. And exactly as you want it.

Think twice about the price tag of such high end basses, there is absolutely no reason for it.

It's just like in the audiophile world, prices are totally unjustified. It's only the marketing department making his job.

I had an original Fodera Richard Bona, simply the worst bass I ever played or owned, stupidly heavy, dull sound without the preamp loudly engaged : always thought it was a cheap Chinese copy ... but it wasn't. 

I know I won't make friends here, but truth always hurts.

Maybe one day, some people will understand that some maker are just profit maker.

As I also wrote, Paris (France) is the real expensiver place to live in the whole world (according to the renowned and awaited UBS annual report), but the most expensive Vigier bass with all (stupid) options possible will cost you €10.055,10 EUR (£9.081,59 GBP at today's exchange rate)... Think about it.

And Vigier instruments are close to perfection on all aspects.

Still think these American boutique basses (where the most expensive maker doesn't have even a regulated temperature and humidity controlled wood stocking room !?!) have justified priced ?

Wake up and go to your local real luthier to get your (craziest) dream bass for a maximum of £5.000 GBP...

Still don't believe me : a Wyn bass with all the possible options will cost you $8655 USD (£6780,07 GBP at today's exchange rate) and Randall FULMER is working totally alone in one of the most modern facility, with extraordinary woods, in Los Angeles (certainly not the cheapest place to live).

Check this : http://wynguitars.com

[lemmywinks]

To be honest I don't care what a Fodera costs new, if they want to charge that and people are prepared to pay it then good on them. People pay many times more for inanimate objects to decorate their homes, at least a Fodera is a functional instrument albeit a bit naff looking (so is that Maruszczyk Sputnik thing IMO). Just don't try and justify it with silly excuses like astronomical rent prices, super secret wood selection processes by magical forest fairies or amazing expertise that no other luthier can offer. They are just one boutique brand turning out high end instruments among many others, with the high profile comes a high price and that's totally fine.

 

If you want one then by all means get the cheque book out, you only live once.

[tauzero]

On 07/01/2019 at 10:42, ped said:

If my order books were full and people were queuing up to pay £5k for one of my instruments, I’d charge £5k

You're haven't quite grasped this capitalism thing. You should be charging 10k.

[EBS_freak]

19 hours ago, lemmywinks said:

Here's a Shuker which with all the fancy options will likely set you back over £4k, a higher spec and more striking instrument than the £15k Fodera for me:

Yeah, it looks OK but talk about shoddy choice of wood. Clearly this thing was thrown together... could have done with the eye of Fodera to get some decent wood that isn't just driftwood.

[lemmywinks]

22 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Yeah, it looks OK but talk about shoddy choice of wood. Clearly this thing was thrown together... could have done with the eye of Fodera to get some decent wood that isn't just driftwood.

Ssshhhh, it's the secret Fodera woodland timber fairies which hand select every piece of wood when it is a mere sapling, then play their magic flute as it grows so it produces the correct timbre when it becomes a body blank. But don't tell anybody, they'll all be doing it then.

 

Besides, Shuker hasn't even got the frets and pickups in straight on that bass, the nitwit.