Can someone tell me what makes up the £8k difference in price between these two basses?

[bubinga5]

2 minutes ago, ped said:

I agree to an extent, but definitely think more expensive instruments are often worth the money. Quite often they keep their value better, too. So you haven’t so much spent the money but have it tied up in an instrument (that excuse normally works on the wife anyway)

What happened with some second hand Fender's.? at well over Fodera prices brand new prices. They were a production bass and weren't even made that well made in the first place. We all know what Leo's thought process was when making his basses. There were no hand crafted parts with early Fenders. Bish Bash Bosh, another fender of the production line.. I think oZZma said it all.

[ped]

8 minutes ago, bubinga5 said:

What happened with some second hand Fender's.? at well over Fodera prices brand new prices. They were a production bass and weren't even made that well made in the first place. We all know what Leo's thought process was when making his basses. There were no hand crafted parts with early Fenders. Bish Bash Bosh, another fender of the production line.. I think oZZma said it all.

There’s no sense in it but it’s just true to say that if I buy one today it’ll be worth more next year. But instruments as an investment is different to an instrument being worth the price for a player.

I happen to think some basses and the time of some of the masters of the craft are worth a bit extra. What I don’t understand is how some bog standard factory produced basses can be so expensive. 

[NikNik]

21 hours ago, kodiakblair said:

@fretmeister

San Francisco and Hong Kong are before NYC in the highest rents table. There's also the small matter of Brooklyn being one of the cheap areas of NY.

Isn't Singapore top rent in the world?

[drTStingray]

A lot of this comes down to paying for exclusivity and craftsmanship. Whether you like it or not or want to suggest a tea chest with a piece of string attached to it is as good as an exclusive piece of hand crafted instrument construction is immaterial (and most of us know who's barking mad in that discussion), that's what it comes down to.

Its the same in any area of consumer product more or less. (Musical instruments are generally considered luxury goods - so their popularity or otherwise is often a pointer to general economic well being - the fact sales have been generally depressed for so long should tell you something)!

[kodiakblair]

2 hours ago, NikNik said:

Isn't Singapore top rent in the world?

I just typed "most expensive place to rent" into google and clicked the most recent link. It said SF and HK. 

[Hellzero]

10 hours ago, Hellzero said:

Here is the UBS (end of 2018) fare prices for renting a flat for 3 persons for 1 month, which is one of the best life level indicator :

https://www.ubs.com/microsites/prices-earnings/en/explore/?indicator=Prices_Housing_(USD)&split=false

And then the earning levels :

https://www.ubs.com/microsites/prices-earnings/en/explore/?indicator=General_Wage Level (gross)_(New York %3D 100)&split=false&category=Earnings

And now the purchasing power :

https://www.ubs.com/microsites/prices-earnings/en/explore/?indicator=General_Domestic Purchasing Power_Net (New York %3D 100)&split=false&category=Domestic Purchasing Power

Do the maths and you'll understand where are the huge profit makers. Again sad but true.

I'll just tell you that Paris (France) is certainly the worst place to live, but the luthiers installed there are not mobing their customers with unjustified delirious selling prices. Take a look at Vigier price list, nothing wrong there and top notch quality level. Patrice Vigier also has some registered patents for his instruments.

 

[therealting]

This is well worth watching.

 

[chaypup]

10 hours ago, ped said:

And you can’t play a chest of drawers. 

Not with that attitude!

[Hellzero]

30 minutes ago, therealting said:

This is well worth watching.

 

Interesting indeed, but sometimes paradoxal when you read between the lines. I agree with everything he's saying and already wrote it earlier, even the price tag of a handmade bass as I've been playing luthiers basses for more than two decades. And as he's explaining it really good, the extra money you pay is for the extra work and/or extra rare supplies, not the quality of the instrument. That's were the paradox lies for Fodera as there is nothing extra for their instruments. You are only paying for having the privelege to own their basses, that's all. So they are not worth the money as there is no added value, but a (self-made) reputation.

What you should also keep in mind is to buy locally by someone you can talk to to explain what you really want : he is the only person able to tell you if it can stick to your budget or if you are a dreamer. Bbut there must be some mutual trust and respect or it won't work.

 

[Wolverinebass]

I've played a few Foderas. They were very well made, but I didn't think they were tonally amazing. "Polite" would have been a nice way to describe them. "Characterless" would be a slightly harsher. 

Now, I own quite a few expensive basses. There aren't that many basses in general that I can't find some sort of positive aspect of regardless of price. I think Foderas are overpriced. Alembic as well though I've owned one for almost 20 years. Wal are getting there as well. Ultimately, if you don't like the product, it's overpriced if it costs a fiver or 20 grand.

To pick on Fodera alone is pointless. Fenders are overpriced!!

[timhiggins]

On 06/01/2019 at 18:53, Ricky 4000 said:

I'm a cheap bastard. Do they do one a bit like that for 300 quid? 😁

Me too i'm getting one of these https://www.andertons.co.uk/sire-version-2-marcus-miller-m2-5-string-in-transparent-blue-ver2m25bl

[lemmywinks]

On 06/01/2019 at 18:53, Ricky 4000 said:

I'm a cheap bastard. Do they do one a bit like that for 300 quid? 😁

Yeah sure!

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Top-Quality-Natural-Wood-Color-5-Strings-Bass-Guitar-Golden-Hardware-Guitar-Maple-Fretboard-Free-Shipping/32953570895.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.82.73402147RxgfBl&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10065_10068_10130_10547_319_317_10548_10696_10192_10190_453_10084_454_10083_10618_431_10307_10820_10301_10821_10303_537_536_10059_10884_10887_100031_321_322_10103,searchweb201603_53,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=97731b41-449d-4014-8517-e69771d8e847-13&algo_pvid=97731b41-449d-4014-8517-e69771d8e847

Edited January 7, 2019 by lemmywinks

[Woodinblack]

2 hours ago, kodiakblair said:

I just typed "most expensive place to rent" into google and clicked the most recent link. It said SF and HK. 

I lived in SF. In 1997 my rent was $2700 pcm.

[Sibob]

29 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

Yeah sure!

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Top-Quality-Natural-Wood-Color-5-Strings-Bass-Guitar-Golden-Hardware-Guitar-Maple-Fretboard-Free-Shipping/32953570895.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.82.73402147RxgfBl&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10065_10068_10130_10547_319_317_10548_10696_10192_10190_453_10084_454_10083_10618_431_10307_10820_10301_10821_10303_537_536_10059_10884_10887_100031_321_322_10103,searchweb201603_53,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=97731b41-449d-4014-8517-e69771d8e847-13&algo_pvid=97731b41-449d-4014-8517-e69771d8e847

Friend of mine bought one of these. Surprise surprise it was total trash, he tried to dress it up as ‘oh it’ll be fun to fix it up’, but he eventually gave up, £350 down the drain!

Si

[lemmywinks]

18 minutes ago, Sibob said:

Friend of mine bought one of these. Surprise surprise it was total trash, he tried to dress it up as ‘oh it’ll be fun to fix it up’, but he eventually gave up, £350 down the drain!

Si

Yeah I have no doubt it would be awful, they will copy anything though. There's Alembic, Ken Smith, Mayones - even Lemmy's custom Rick with all the engraving!

[EBS_freak]

25 minutes ago, Sibob said:

Friend of mine bought one of these. Surprise surprise it was total trash, he tried to dress it up as ‘oh it’ll be fun to fix it up’, but he eventually gave up, £350 down the drain!

Si

There’s got to be a viral “smashed a Fodera” opportunity...?

[Sibob]

12 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

There’s got to be a viral “smashed a Fodera” opportunity...?

I’m sure there is....less so for “smashed a cheap copy” lol

Si

[itu]

If there is something available to selected few, or the production is limited, the price will rise. (Wrong answer.)

If you desperately need something that all others want, too, the company can raise their offer. Pricewise, that is. (Wrong answer.)

Is it that much better? Does it even have to be, if you can just join the league of the extraordinary gentlemen? (Wrong question.)

Does it fit you perfectly? (Wrong question.)

Maslow...

[ahpook]

14 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

There’s got to be a viral “smashed a Fodera” opportunity...?

The KLF burn 100 Foderas.

 

[EBS_freak]

13 minutes ago, Sibob said:

I’m sure there is....less so for “smashed a cheap copy” lol

Si

As if most people would even know the difference.

[EBS_freak]

16 hours ago, Wolverinebass said:

I've played a few Foderas. They were very well made, but I didn't think they were tonally amazing. "Polite" would have been a nice way to describe them. "Characterless" would be a slightly harsher. 

Now, I own quite a few expensive basses. There aren't that many basses in general that I can't find some sort of positive aspect of regardless of price. I think Foderas are overpriced. Alembic as well though I've owned one for almost 20 years. Wal are getting there as well. Ultimately, if you don't like the product, it's overpriced if it costs a fiver or 20 grand.

To pick on Fodera alone is pointless. Fenders are overpriced!!

I have probably seen/played 7 or 8 Foderas up close... and I was a little disappointed by the finish to be honest - sanding marks under the finish don't really float my boat.

Wal is an interesting one. Certainly the woodwork is nothing amazing - it's the sound of the pre and pickups that get that "Wal" sound.

Funny thing is, I'm not fussed for it... and I think the controls, for me at least, aren't intuitive enough for live use.

Fenders are overpriced... *cough cough* Musicman. (How and why did they become so expensive...?)

[bubinga5]

16 hours ago, lemmywinks said:

Yeah sure!

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Top-Quality-Natural-Wood-Color-5-Strings-Bass-Guitar-Golden-Hardware-Guitar-Maple-Fretboard-Free-Shipping/32953570895.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.82.73402147RxgfBl&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10065_10068_10130_10547_319_317_10548_10696_10192_10190_453_10084_454_10083_10618_431_10307_10820_10301_10821_10303_537_536_10059_10884_10887_100031_321_322_10103,searchweb201603_53,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=97731b41-449d-4014-8517-e69771d8e847-13&algo_pvid=97731b41-449d-4014-8517-e69771d8e847

What a waste of a nice species of top wood. 

[GisserD]

16 hours ago, lemmywinks said:

Yeah sure!

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Top-Quality-Natural-Wood-Color-5-Strings-Bass-Guitar-Golden-Hardware-Guitar-Maple-Fretboard-Free-Shipping/32953570895.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.82.73402147RxgfBl&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10065_10068_10130_10547_319_317_10548_10696_10192_10190_453_10084_454_10083_10618_431_10307_10820_10301_10821_10303_537_536_10059_10884_10887_100031_321_322_10103,searchweb201603_53,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=97731b41-449d-4014-8517-e69771d8e847-13&algo_pvid=97731b41-449d-4014-8517-e69771d8e847

that jack position!!! :-O

 

 

 

[lemmywinks]

2 hours ago, GisserD said:

that jack position!!! 😮

 

 

 

Hahaha I never noticed that! There's some superficially nice looking basses on AliExpress but you don't know what horrors await when you try and play the thing. Check out this Warwick Infinette knockoff, one F-hole appears to have been lined with newspaper and the other has had loads of old wiring shoved in it:

Edited January 8, 2019 by lemmywinks

[Wolverinebass]

20 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

one F-hole appears to have been lined with newspaper and the other has had loads of old wiring shoved in it:

Possibly something that Hans Peter Wilfer won't falsely claim to have invented first.