How do you practice??

[L1zz1e]

OK,
This might seem like a really weird question, but what is the best way to learn theory and technique and suchlike?
Im trying to have an ass kicking moment of going back and learning all the stuff i conveniently decided to avoid... such as theory, harmony and technique but I am finding it really hard to get it to sink in..
Now i know that you should spend X amount of time during your regime to dedicate to scales/arpeggios etc but I just dont think I am going about it in the right way. I try to sit there and work through some scales but i end up thinking i know it and move on, but then I end up getting kicked in the ass for it later on! I mean, i know my major scale shapes, but I dont seem to be able to implement them effectively.

Basically, I am asking for some advice on practicing theory/harmony that isnt just playing through scales at X bmp etc as that clearly isnt working for me!

Any advice would be absolutely invaluble!

Yours,
A bassist in dire need!

Lizzie

[Bilbo]

There are a million exercises that will make a difference and they will all work on some level. In my prime developmental period, my own regime was to play two octave scales in all keys and all modes followed by two octave chord tones up and down the neck in all modes and all keys. Took about an hour a day but I developed a lot of technique that way.

I would really recommend that you learn to read the dots as soon as you can: a teacher is a good idea but F. Simandl's books or Rufus Reid's Evolving Bassist are good books to start with. When you have the rudimentary skills (i.e. you don't need to be able to sight read to do this), you can start transcribing bits of songs you like and to develop a vocabulary of your own. Then your playing will really start to improve.

The very fact that you are even asking this question is indicative of a positive attitude to learning and you should be congratulated for that. The best piece of advice I can give is 'remember that the most difficult thing about finding your true path as a player is the realisation that you are already on it'. Everything of value that you will ever learn will come to you incrementally. There are a couple of things that may come to you as an epiphany but these are very few. Most things come from tedious repetition and, despite your protestations to the contrary, I would argue that just playing through scales at X bpm etc probably is working for you already, just not as quickly as you would like. Most things you learn in the practice room today won't appear in your playing for at least six months!Patience is of considerable value in learning an instrument, alongside the understanding that, if you haven't got that knot of frustration in your stomach as you practice, you probably aren't learning anything of value!

You are on a wonderful journey that will last your lifetime. Enjoy.

[birdy]

Wise Words Bilbo.

[L1zz1e]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='345343' date='Dec 4 2008, 01:18 PM']There are a million exercises that will make a difference and they will all work on some level. In my prime developmental period, my own regime was to play two octave scales in all keys and all modes followed by two octave chord tones up and down the neck in all modes and all keys. Took about an hour a day but I developed a lot of technique that way.

I would really recommend that you learn to read the dots as soon as you can: a teacher is a good idea but F. Simandl's books or Rufus Reid's Evolving Bassist are good books to start with. When you have the rudimentary skills (i.e. you don't need to be able to sight read to do this), you can start transcribing bits of songs you like and to develop a vocabulary of your own. Then your playing will really start to improve.

The very fact that you are even asking this question is indicative of a positive attitude to learning and you should be congratulated for that. The best piece of advice I can give is 'remember that the most difficult thing about finding your true path as a player is the realisation that you are already on it'. Everything of value that you will ever learn will come to you incrementally. There are a couple of things that may come to you as an epiphany but these are very few. Most things come from tedious repetition and, despite your protestations to the contrary, I would argue that just playing through scales at X bpm etc probably is working for you already, just not as quickly as you would like. Most things you learn in the practice room today won't appear in your playing for at least six months!Patience is of considerable value in learning an instrument, alongside the understanding that, if you haven't got that knot of frustration in your stomach as you practice, you probably aren't learning anything of value!

You are on a wonderful journey that will last your lifetime. Enjoy.[/quote]

You, sir, have just made my day!
My problem has always been wanting to run before walking.. I want to be Palladino (or in my case Wilkenfeld..) and I may one day get there, but im just going to have to wood shed it a bit just like everybody else!
I have obtained "New Method For String Bass" Simandl and a few others including "The Cycle of Self Empowerment" Dom Famularo.
Do you think these will help?
Many many thanks! Youve made a bass player more inspired! x

[Bilbo]

[quote name='L1zz1e' post='345580' date='Dec 4 2008, 03:52 PM']I have obtained "New Method For String Bass" Simandl and a few others including "The Cycle of Self Empowerment" Dom Famularo.
Do you think these will help?[/quote]

Don't know the Famularo book but the Simandl is an industry standard so its perfect. But the truth is it doesn't matter as much as you think. At this stage, the information you need is in almost every bass book you can buy. Its also out there free on a dozen website including this one (dlloyds primer thread). You need to get as much information in your head as you can and make sense of it. Just take the time to digest the information and learn one thing at a time - and REALLY learn it.

If you practice, it will come.

[XB26354]

[quote name='L1zz1e' post='345309' date='Dec 4 2008, 12:53 PM']I try to sit there and work through some scales but i end up thinking i know it and move on, but then I end up getting kicked in the ass for it later on! I mean, i know my major scale shapes, but I dont seem to be able to implement them effectively.[/quote]
Are you sure you really know them?
I've been playing for 23+ years and I don't know all the permutations. What I do know having taught people of all ages and backgrounds is that, as Bilbo said, an enquiring mind is the most valuable tool for improvement. But you know what? I never really sat down and played a C major scale over one octave up and down at quarter notes = 60, then stepped it up 10% when I could play it flawlessly, then up another 10%, then when it got faster up 5% each time, etc. No, hold on, I [b]did[/b] do that! In order to memorise a shape like the major scale (and I'm talking starting with the 2nd finger of the fretting hand) you have to play it over and over - not thousands of times, just enough so you don't have to think to play it. Then the real task of learning on a fretted string instrument is all its variations of fingering in different positions on the neck. Take the open G string - that same pitch can be played at the D string 5th fret, A string 10th fret and E string 15th fret. A "next step" exercise is to play a given scale starting with each fretting hand finger, and see where your fingers lead you. In most cases you won't be stuck using one finger per fret so the fingerboard opens up and you start to see things differently.
When you think you know any given scale, find the lowest note on your bass that is in that scale and play it up to the highest note on your bass - this gets you used to position changes and playing "vertically" (i.e. up strings instead of across them) instead of being stuck in one four-fret position.
As you can probably already see there is a lot of work, meaning that you'll have to put some serious regular practice in - but in all my experience 30 minutes to an hour and a half 5 or 6 times a week is way better than 8 hours a day on saturday and sunday and nothing for the rest of the week.
As for approach, that is actually a misleading question imho - do the practising and the knowledge will eventually come out in your playing. If you mean, for example, different approaches to playing over a 7sus4 chord, then something like the Jazz Theory book will give you all you need. A teacher is not compulsory but a good one will help you on the way and maybe save time going down dead ends or picking up bad habits.
The above is of course purely my opinion based on experience...
Best of luck and don't give up - stick at it and you will improve, not only as a bass player but as a musician.
Mat

[jakenewmanbass]

Lots of good advice so far so I won't repeat, I'll simply add.
I place a good deal of importance on musicality, taking excercises and making music with them, scales up and down are not particularly musical but knowing them as well as the action of putting food to your mouth gives you the facility to make great music by knowing combinations of notes that sound great, there are many many combinations and permutations available so how you learn them will determine how quickly you improve.
One of the best sources is by learning what other bass players before you have worked out. Take examples from a variety of sources absorb them for yourself, add your own personality (which is unavoidable) and hey presto you are a player.
Easy eh!!??

You have a reply to your PM

[mcgraham]

Good advice!
[quote]Basically, I am asking for some advice on practicing theory/harmony that isnt just playing through scales at X bmp etc as that clearly isnt working for me![/quote]
I'd suggest breaking things down into manageable chunks.
- There's the theoretical aspect of music, knowing your scales, arpeggios, chords patterns etc. I used to write these out on paper and memorise the information my repetition in this way so that I actively know it. I'd suggest thinking about how you best learn information.
- There's the technical aspect, of being able to execute said patterns. I used to just practice them at a slow but totally non-strict tempo to get the patterns under my fingers, then move to a strict tempo, moving from slow to fast as my accuracy improved. This is a tried and true method, and works wonderfully.
- There's the ear training aspect, to actually listen to the notes you're producing, and attempting to memorise the physical/emotional response certain notes create, their distinctive feel if you like. I used to play along with virtually every recording I had just having fun. I used to be as random as possible with my improvising, so that if I liked something I'd then work out why I liked it, if I didn't I'd work out why I didn't, and then where these parts could be drawn from, i.e. why they worked.
- Then there's the application aspect of it, to play along with/listen to songs and be able to create parts that work from scratch based on your knowledge and execution of these previous stages. Singing along with songs and then identifying what you just sang is a great way to do that, transcription is also good, with or without your instrument.

Despite all of that, you've got to have fun with your instrument. Don't be afraid to experiment. Some of the best things I know and can use now have come out of completely random and 'theoretically unworkable' ideas, or at least theoretically far-fetched.

Mark

Edited December 5, 2008 by mcgraham

[Sean]

A very important thing that I find is a huge help when practising is to keep a log/diary/journal or whatever you want to call it and record what you've done, for how long and make some comments about how you found it. Be brutally honest with yourself, record metronome speeds and make notes of what particular things you get stuck with. Spend a bit less time time on those things you are good at and focus on those things you struggle with, this may sound obvious but staying with exercises you can breeze through is not going to get you to progress.

Make practising a habit and schedule it like you would going to the gym or some other social activity. As little as half an hour to an hour a day makes a huge difference in a month if it's efficient and good practise. Spend time reviewing what you've done and ask yourself what you've done well, what didn't go so well and what you will focus on next time. Two-three hours a day is really going to see you move on in leaps in a few months if it's good practise.

Plan your next week of practising and try your best to hit those targets. Keep it interesting, ear training, rhythm reading, technique exercises, metronome work, work on new songs, practise your singing, work out little ditties by ear. Keep it structured so that you get the best out of your time but warm up properly and enjoy it; enjoy the satisfaction and semi-meditative effect it all has when it's going well and also the mental "burn" it can give when you're really getting in deep especially with new rhythms on tough metronome exercises.

As well as making a written log, record yourself. It's necessary all the time but if you do it once in a while you can track your improvements. Think of your playing as a child growing up, you see that child everyday and your perception of its growth is negligible but an uncle or aunt that sees the child once a month perceives lots of change. You need these recordings as snapshots of your progres and they can give you a pat on the back when you listen back to them and see the improvement between each consecutive one.

Edited December 9, 2008 by Sean

[ahpook]

thanks folks...i think you may have just given me a bit of inspiration back


is there any of this amazing advice in the wiki ?

[Asgath]

It might be a little bit of shameless self promotion but...this may be of some assistance

[url="http://www.musicouch.com/Musicouching/A-Guide-for-Musicians---Practicing-Properly.364239"]http://www.musicouch.com/Musicouching/A-Gu...Properly.364239[/url]

Its an article I put together late last month. As such its unfinished and really shoddily proof read.
Any advise on improving would be appreciated.

[urb]

+100 for all the great advice here, I definitely agree with the little and often practice routine, one small thing I'll add is that while it's great to really start practising regularly and with genuine motivation and with some real goals in mind it's also good to get out and play with people who are better than you, it's amazing what unspoken lessons you learn in the heat of the moment. Obviously don't put yourself in a stressful situation but if you can find a jam session that has a good drummer etc that's a great way to find out what's working and what isn't in your playing.

I just just got the new Victor Wooten Groove Workshop DVD and while some people may think he's just about fast slap bass should check this out, as it's over 5 hours of really insightful musical advice and instruction. He tackles everything from harmony and phrasing to technique and a brilliant section on time keeping. I highly recommend this.

Lastly my one nugget of advice kind of echoes what Bilbo and Mat have said already, is just think "how do I want my playing to sound in a year's time?" Or five years time? Etc Improving as a musician, not just as a bass player, is a life long mission and the longer you work at it the more rewarding it will be, so it's great you are heading out on that jouney no matter how long it takes you.

Mike

[JohnSlade07]

I think that having a goal (or two) to work towards is also helpful in terms of moitvation be it getting in a band, learning a favourite song, taking an exam whatever.

I'll quite happily work on learning scales, arpeggios etc for a few weeks, but then I'll lose heart because I don't really use them/need them. I play in a function band which is really good fun but doesn't provide the biggest motivation for "pushing" myself. In fairness that might just be my short attention span and lack of self motivation.