Double bass, to stand or not to stand, that is the question.

[jazzyvee]

I have had 3 lessons so far learning to play and would like to know the pros and cons of standing to play vs sitting. Most people ive seen tend to stand. I am currently doing that but i think my posture must be wrong as my left hand and lower back ache after a practice session. I plan to discuss with my tutor on my next lesson but wondered what you guys who play think. 

[Staggering on]

Your tutor might be able to help you stand more comfortably but if you are new to upright bass you can expect a bit of discomfort until your body gets used to what is at best, an awkward position. Your left arm and hand will need to develop more strength which will happen as you play more.

I play standing because I like to move a lot when I play and whether it is DB or EUB I'm on my feet, it just seems more natural to me. After a long gig or practice session I am sometimes a bit sore but I think the fact that I move a lot helps avoid pain. If you are in an orchestra or other formal ensemble you can't move around but in the small  jazz bands I play in it is OK. I am 72 and started upright about five years ago and my left arm is the first area to start feeling pain but that is partly due to age and my dodgy technique and I find using the bow is worse for me than pizz.

Good luck and have fun. 😊  

Edited January 12, 2019 by Staggering on

[NickA]

I used to stand to play all the time.  Then I had some (classical) bass lessons, partly around the fact that the bass would rotate and or I'd nearly drop it when moving from 4th to thumb positions.  The tutor asked why I didn't just sit down.  Now I sit on a stool with one foot on the ground.  All classical players sit (some with both feet down, most with one foot down), most Jazz players sit.  Most Blues and Rockabilly etc players stand.  I guess it's about how stable you need the bass to be to apply the technique you need for the music and how much you want to dance about.

Started off with an old IKEA bar stool or resting my derrière on the back of a chair.  Now progressed to a proper bass stool with a foot rest.  These are REALLY good: https://www.thomann.de/gb/km_14044.htm

Now and then I'll go to a Jazz session without a stool and stand for a couple of hours - but I'm not good enough a Jazzist to ever get into thumb position whilst improvising.

(PS: I note that derriere complete with accent is not a rude word, whereas AR$E gets changed !!)

Edited January 13, 2019 by NickA
I've been edited for reasons of public decency!!

[Owen]

DB "standard" technique does not exist in the same way as Violin/Viola/'cello does. It only got the 4th string as a standard towards the end of the 19thC. You can use 124 fingering, you can use 1234 fingering. You can go German bow or French bow. You can stand or sit. Or start the gig standing but sit down for the 16 chorus sax solo. Do what works for you. Playing the DB is incredibly physical. It is going to hurt at the beginning. There is no way around it.

[NickA]

For classical players at least, I think Simandl is a pretty standard technique; every classical bass player I know claims to use Simandl ...

.... but then admits to ignoring it from time to time (pivots and stuff aka Rabbath technique:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/François_Rabbath)

Went to a National Youth Orchestra concert during the week; all sitting, all seemingly Simandling.  Went to a gig by a great Jazz bass player the other month (Liran Donin) and couldn't work out WHAT he was doing - whatever it took to pull a great sound out I think - and he was standing up!

I expect Mr StringNavigator will pile in from Canada before long, telling us all that "THERE IS NO METHOD BUT THE STRICTEST SIMANDL" (on electric as well as double bass) - he has yet to dictate on the matter of sitting or standing I think - but as the picture in the front of my copy of Simandl's "new method" has a picture of  Gary Karr STANDING and says "Notice that the weight of the performer is equally distributed on both feet"  I expect he stands.

I'm getting old and shall sit.

[geoffbassist]

I’m a big fan of doing both. They both have their advantages so I would take the time to get comfortable standing and sitting. 

[neilp]

Geoff is right, in my opinion. I sit for orchestral and chamber music where I'm part of an ensemble, if I'm playing as a soloist (whether with an orchestra or pianist, chamber group, whatever) I quite often stand. It's great to be able to do either, but I have to admit I don't have Mr Karr's technique, so as the music gets more technically demanding I tend to sit more, as I don't have to think about controlling the instrument as well as playing the notes!! When I sit, I sit with one foot on the ground, but these days lower than I used to, with my right leg bent. 

[Happy Jack]

[SHALLOW ALERT] One of the reasons I wanted to learn DB in the first place is that it is the absolute essence of cool. I've tried playing both standing and sitting (using the correct stool for the task, too) and not only was standing a far better position for me but sitting wiped out maybe 80% of the coolness. [/SHALLOW ALERT]

In all seriousness, I have suffered from pretty unpleasant back problems for well over a decade. If playing when standing was going to give anyone some long-term issues, that would be me then. 

It will pass. Promise.

 

[Owen]

3 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

[SHALLOW ALERT] One of the reasons I wanted to learn DB in the first place is that it is the absolute essence of cool.

 

Nothing shallow about THE TRUTH!

[Ricky 4000]

Remember to lock your wheels if you're going to stand on it. 👍

 

[mangotango]

On ‎12‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 18:11, NickA said:

I used to stand to play all the time.  Then I had some (classical) bass lessons, partly around the fact that the bass would rotate and or I'd nearly drop it when moving from 4th to thumb positions.  The tutor asked why I didn't just sit down.  Now I sit on a stool with one foot on the ground.  All classical players sit (some with both feet down, most with one foot down), most Jazz players sit.  Most Blues and Rockabilly etc players stand.  I guess it's about how stable you need the bass to be to apply the technique you need for the music and how much you want to dance about.

Started off with an old IKEA bar stool or resting my derrière on the back of a chair.  Now progressed to a proper bass stool with a foot rest.  These are REALLY good: https://www.thomann.de/gb/km_14044.htm

Now and then I'll go to a Jazz session without a stool and stand for a couple of hours - but I'm not good enough a Jazzist to ever get into thumb position whilst improvising.

(PS: I note that derriere complete with accent is not a rude word, whereas AR$E gets changed !!)

+1 for almost all of the above, including the IKEA bar stool.

Edited August 6, 2019 by mangotango

[Cathode_Follower]

Something I remember @geoffbassist saying is the biggest reason to be able to play standing is that in a lot of scenarios that will be the only option because of limited stage space (this is certainly the case that I've found). In addition there's the practical consideration of having an extra thing to transport with you to gigs!

My advice would be learn to stand first. Sitting is much easier to learn afterwards than the other way round. As Staggering On said, you're going to be aching a lot to begin with anyway, don't let that put you off!

p.s. - anyone else use their left knee as a 3rd point of contact when standing? I find it gives me as much stability as sitting and I'm still able to retain a good posture.

[Cathode_Follower]

On 13/01/2019 at 14:56, owen said:

DB "standard" technique does not exist in the same way as Violin/Viola/'cello does. It only got the 4th string as a standard towards the end of the 19thC. You can use 124 fingering, you can use 1234 fingering. You can go German bow or French bow. You can stand or sit. Or start the gig standing but sit down for the 16 chorus sax solo. Do what works for you. Playing the DB is incredibly physical. It is going to hurt at the beginning. There is no way around it.

I wonder if this has something to do with the fact that DB is so large compared so basically every other instrument? With pretty much any other instrument, things like your overall height or the ratio of your arm to leg length have no relation to how you interface with it. Everyone's bodies are so different it makes sense that there would be a wider range of different techniques employed with such a large physical instrument.

[gypsyjazzer]

As Geoff said do both. if your 'geting on in years' like myself and on a long gig it is great to sit down.

[jazzyvee]

I did my first gig with my DB (EUB) a few months back and decided to stand as it was only two tracks I was doing. I didn't find any problems with doing that however I did find that two tracks was probably my limit since I haven't got enough stamina in my hands yet to do a whole gig on DB but I'm working towards that. Maybe once I get a better grip of my intonation from standing I will try sitting.