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Source Audio C4 Synth Pedal

GisserD

By GisserD,
in Effects

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Quatschmacher Grand Master

Quatschmacher

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Posted (edited)
My session creating FM sounds last night was inspired by my having talked @dodge_bass through the features of the pedal for a couple of hours earlier in the week and encountering something which puzzled me.
 
This isn’t documented in the manual under the FM section but I’ve finally figured out what happens with the envelopes in the FM implementation. I had previously thought that whatever envelope was selected to control the modulator oscillator’s volume was what controlled the FM amount in the carrier oscillator. This is not the case. It actually looks like the two envelopes are hard-routed so that Sine 1’s FM amount (from either Sine 2 or the input signal) is always controlled by envelope 1.  Similarly Sine 2’s FM amount (from either Sine 1 or the input signal) is always controlled by envelope 2. I’ve emailed Jesse and Niko to confirm and ask them to add the info to the manual. 
 
Having grasped that, I’ve found some more cool stuff one can do by manipulating both envelope shapes and FM amounts and I’ve got some ideas of things to do using the dual processors with FM now which I’m going to work on today.

I also worked out the other day that the pitch modulation of the oscillators (via the detune knob and accompanying “modulate” button) is also hard-routed. (I previously thought it was set by the the same drop down that selects which LFO controls the tremolo for a given voice as it’s right next to that control in the editor;  I was wrong!) The pitch modulation of oscillator 1 (i.e. saw 1, square 1, sine 1) and polyphonic pitch 1 is always controlled by LFO 1.

Likewise, the pitch modulation of oscillator 2 (i.e. saw 2, square 2, sine 2) and polyphonic pitch 2 is always controlled by LFO 2.

The above means that if you want to apply equal-speed pitch modulation to two oscillators which have the same wave shape, then you need to ensure that the LFO1/2 ratio is set at 1:1. However, this new discovery opens up some interesting possibilities. I might also be able to use this knowledge to improve some things I was dissatisfied with in a few of my older patches.

I made Jesse and Niko aware of this too and it will be added to the manual.
Edited by Quatschmacher
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Quatschmacher Grand Master

Quatschmacher

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Check this out, I've managed a pretty cool FM-based upright bass sound. You can track the patch's development by studying the series of patches I just posted to Neuro. (If you want the finished sounds, try 6, 6a, 7 and 7a). I might also post a version with better knob assignments as depending on your dry bass volume and passive tone controls, you may need to adjust the dry input into voice 4.

 

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Quatschmacher Grand Master

Quatschmacher

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Added some versions with expression control of the percussive attack:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SBHWBCRErQ7sCGMDPpXzXHGLOqO_COdz/view?usp=sharing

Improving it slightly:
Edited by Quatschmacher
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Quatschmacher Grand Master

Quatschmacher

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I had an idea for a nifty trick today and it works (but not quite as I expected, but equally well).

I run pedals in the loop of the C4/Spectrum and have a custom patch (which is on neuro) which allows the use of the pedals in the loop with no other effects applied. (C4 doesn’t allow the loop contents to be audible when it is bypassed so that’s why a dedicated patch is required.)

Now, (if switched on in the hardware options) a long press of the foot switch will toggle between red and green banks. So my idea was to have this patch on preset 6 (leaving the toggle switch set to the right) so that a long press from any other patch would jump me straight to preset 6. 

What I found is that if you are on presets 7-127 then a long press will always take you back to the green bank. (This wasn’t the behaviour I excepted as 7-127 have a green light.) No biggie though, I can just put my bypass loop preset on preset 3 instead then no matter where I am, a long press will turn my loop on.

This is pretty useful for anyone using a simple up/down preset switcher which doesn’t allow one to jump to a particular patch on command.

Basically, if you are on any preset from 4-127 then a long press will take you straight to preset 1, 2 or 3 (depending) on what position the toggle switch is set at. Could be really useful if you need to quickly jump to one of three favourite patches from anywhere else.

Guessing this might work on other SA pedals that have internal presets too.

I’ve spotted a bug with this. There are certain instances where presets 1-6 don’t switch bank as they should, but only after a particular order of events. I can reproduce it consistently and have reported it so it should hopefully get fixed.

@dodge_bass, thought it easier to post here. 

Edited by Quatschmacher
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Quatschmacher Grand Master

Quatschmacher

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4 minutes ago, moley6knipe said:

A really dumb question: when I have iPhone connected to C4 via jack cable and use the neuro app, I browse cloud presets, and then burn to device.... the app doesn’t show presets that are already stored i.e. so as to prevent me over writing presets already stored on the C4? Is that right? Thanks!

Yes, it’s one-way communication via the audio jack unfortunately. That’s why I manage patches via desktop. 

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Quatschmacher Grand Master

Quatschmacher

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1 hour ago, moley6knipe said:

Ah ok, makes sense. Thanks!! Now you’ve mentioned that I do dimly recall reading that somewhere. Having got a Hub and retaining the MC6 I’m figuring out a workflow....

You can go really deep with the C4/MC6 combination if you exploit the MIDI map in the C4. An upcoming feature of MC6 will allow a single button to scroll through all 25 C4 filter types for instance. 

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SumOne Grand Master

SumOne

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On 15/11/2020 at 14:40, Quatschmacher said:

Check this out, I've managed a pretty cool FM-based upright bass sound. You can track the patch's development by studying the series of patches I just posted to Neuro. (If you want the finished sounds, try 6, 6a, 7 and 7a). I might also post a version with better knob assignments as depending on your dry bass volume and passive tone controls, you may need to adjust the dry input into voice 4.

 

I was on the fence about trading my octave pedal and envelope filter to cover the cost of a C4 (or perhaps Spectrum) as I thought they're the things I'd mostly use it for rather than other synth sounds, then I heard what you'd done with this Upright sound and was definitely sold- my C4 arrived a few hours ago and within about 10 minutes I was trying some of your presets: Good work, I hope you get some sort of commission!

Edited by SumOne
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Quatschmacher Grand Master

Quatschmacher

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4 minutes ago, SumOne said:

I was on the fence about trading my octave pedal and envelope filter to cover the cost of a C4 (or perhaps Spectrum) as I thought they're the things I'd mostly use it for rather than other synth sounds, then I heard what you'd done with this Upright sound and was definitely sold- my C4 arrived a few hours ago and within about 10 minutes I was trying some of your presets: Good work, I hope you get some sort of commission!

Yes, I remember chatting to you on TB last week about this. I hope you’re enjoying it. Hopefully you’ll have no regrets; it’s a brilliant pedal. 
 

Source Audio have been pretty good to me, thanks. My shared presets netted me their inaugural “featured artist of the month” accolade back in July, for which I won a Collider. 

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SumOne Grand Master

SumOne

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17 minutes ago, Quatschmacher said:

Yes, I remember chatting to you on TB last week about this. I hope you’re enjoying it. Hopefully you’ll have no regrets; it’s a brilliant pedal. 
 

Source Audio have been pretty good to me, thanks. My shared presets netted me their inaugural “featured artist of the month” accolade back in July, for which I won a Collider. 

Nice! Well deserved.

So far so good but I've only spent a couple of hours on it. I'll be happy if I get a decent sounding envelope filter, octaver, octaver+envelope filter,  and the upright sound - and your presets seem to cover that! Bonus if I can get some Parliament 'Flashlight'  synth (which I expect is possible), and using it just for time based effects seems like a good possibility too.  

 

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ped Grand Master

ped

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38 minutes ago, Quatschmacher said:

Yes, I remember chatting to you on TB last week about this. I hope you’re enjoying it. Hopefully you’ll have no regrets; it’s a brilliant pedal. 
 

Source Audio have been pretty good to me, thanks. My shared presets netted me their inaugural “featured artist of the month” accolade back in July, for which I won a Collider. 

I read that as you won a colander which I suppose is still nice

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Quatschmacher Grand Master

Quatschmacher

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33 minutes ago, SumOne said:

Nice! Well deserved.

So far so good but I've only spent a couple of hours on it. I'll be happy if I get a decent sounding envelope filter, octaver, octaver+envelope filter,  and the upright sound - and your presets seem to cover that! Bonus if I can get some Parliament 'Flashlight'  synth (which I expect is possible), and using it just for time based effects seems like a good possibility too.  

 

The search function on the Neuro app/website is your friend. Flashlight by me.

https://neuro.sourceaudio.net/preset/EfvI5JLFWa

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moley6knipe Mentor

moley6knipe

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Another n00b question if I may: c4 connected to hub, hub connected to pc. I see how to add pedal to scene in hub and edit pedal settings on c4... is there a way when connected via the hub, to browse and burn cloud presets etc to c4? And/or browse currently installed presets on the C4?  If so I can’t see it... thanks!

Edited by moley6knipe
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Quatschmacher Grand Master

Quatschmacher

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10 minutes ago, moley6knipe said:

Another n00b question if I may: c4 connected to hub, hub connected to pc. I see how to add pedal to scene in hub and edit pedal settings on c4... is there a way when connected via the hub, to browse and burn cloud presets etc to c4? And/or browse currently installed presets on the C4?  If so I can’t see it... thanks!

No, for that you need to attach the USB cable directly to the C4.

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moley6knipe Mentor

moley6knipe

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Thank you! This seems to be sub-optimal behaviour imho - I’d expected to be able to load the C4 up with presets, then connect via the hub, browse/recall them and save to a scene. My thinking being then I edit the scene later to add other SA pedals if I buy one. And then use the MC6 to recall hub scene and thus c4 + other pedals if added.

Seems I may as well load up the C4 then recall c4 presets directly from the MC6...

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Quatschmacher Grand Master

Quatschmacher

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59 minutes ago, moley6knipe said:

Thank you! This seems to be sub-optimal behaviour imho - I’d expected to be able to load the C4 up with presets, then connect via the hub, browse/recall them and save to a scene. My thinking being then I edit the scene later to add other SA pedals if I buy one. And then use the MC6 to recall hub scene and thus c4 + other pedals if added.

Seems I may as well load up the C4 then recall c4 presets directly from the MC6...

It’s not ideal as is and improvements have been discussed. Obviously I’m not permitted to divulge details. 
 

What I’m doing at present is to load and create presets by connecting C4 straight to my PC and saving them to internal slots. Then I later browse through them via the MC8 while playing, find one I like, add other SA pedals into the mod and then save as a Hub scene using the Hub buttons. 

There are various ways to go about this. You could hook up the C4 to a mobile device via the audio port and use that to browse cloud presets, create presets and save presets to the internal memory. Then you could either use the Hub hardware buttons to save scenes or have the Hub connected via USB to your PC and create a scene using the connected pedals. This will read the current settings from your connected pedals which you can then store as a Hub scene on the PC.

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