Source Audio C4 Synth Pedal

[stewblack]

Hi tech heads and fellow luddites. 

I have a simple midi controller. 

Can it be used with this pedal?

I wish to scroll up and down through presets. 

This is it

Edited May 30, 2021 by stewblack

[Cuzzie]

That one may still need the neuro hub as well.

I think the only ones that work via the USB port are the disaster area ones, but I am sure someone will confirm or deny 

[stewblack]

3 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

That one may still need the neuro hub as well.

I think the only ones that work via the USB port are the disaster area ones, but I am sure someone will confirm or deny 

I suspected as much from my searching. 

Thank you. 

[Quatschmacher]

This has no USB host capability (lack of USB port is a dead giveaway) - you will need the Hub.

[stewblack]

6 hours ago, Quatschmacher said:

This has no USB host capability (lack of USB port is a dead giveaway) - you will need the Hub.

Thank you. 

[Kev]

Just for clarity, I use a Boss ES-5 as a midi controller, currently sending midi to a Darkglass ADAM pedal.  To use this with the C4, would I need to buy the hub?  Would I then connect the Hub USB to the C4, the Hub Midi out to the ADAM, and the Hub Midi In to the ES-5??

[Quatschmacher]

21 minutes ago, Kev said:

Just for clarity, I use a Boss ES-5 as a midi controller, currently sending midi to a Darkglass ADAM pedal.  To use this with the C4, would I need to buy the hub?  Would I then connect the Hub USB to the C4, the Hub Midi out to the ADAM, and the Hub Midi In to the ES-5??

Unless the Boss has USB host capability, you will need the Hub. 
 

you’d go ES-5 MIDI out>Hub MIDI in and Hub MIDI out>Adam MIDI in (unless the Adam also has a MIDI out, in which case you could swap the order of hub and Adam).

Edited June 2, 2021 by Quatschmacher

[Kev]

49 minutes ago, Quatschmacher said:

Unless the Boss has USB host capability, you will need the Hub. 
 

you’d go ES-5 MIDI out>Hub MIDI in and Hub MIDI out>Adam MIDI in (unless the Adam also has a MIDI out, in which case you could swap the order of hub and Adam).

Yeah that's what I thought, and presumably (yes, I'm new to this) you would just put the two pedals on different channels and all will work once set up etc?

[moley6knipe]

Yeah. All Devices on different MIDI channels.

[Quatschmacher]

15 minutes ago, Kev said:

Yeah that's what I thought, and presumably (yes, I'm new to this) you would just put the two pedals on different channels and all will work once set up etc?

Exactly. You might as well put hub and C4 on the same channel though. That’s what I do. 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Quatschmacher

[SumOne]

On 25/05/2021 at 22:23, lee650 said:

I've recently bought the DMC micro to switch between my presets on the C4. I was a bit sick to see the pro had cone out,not 4weeks later, as id much prefer to see the preset names, Its not worth another £50 to me though. As it stands I've got my most used sounds as the first ones, and I'll literally write the patch number next to any tune that needs it on my set list. I was slight miffed at first at having to spend another £99 to get access to a decent number of sounds, but I'd definitely recommend you get one.

I got the DMC micro (no the pro) as it looked like the display is a bit bigger and brighter and saved £50 and figured I'd just need to remember the numbering rather than naming presets - but the latest Beta update means that you can name your presets on it too, winner!

Edited June 7, 2021 by SumOne

[stewblack]

Bought my hub from Bass Direct. Still no sign of it. Must be coming via Bass Indirect.

Steep learning curve awaits me should it ever arrive. 

[lee650]

12 hours ago, SumOne said:

I got the DMC micro (no the pro) as it looked like the display is a bit bigger and brighter and saved £50 and figured I'd just need to remember the numbering rather than naming presets - but the latest Beta update means that you can name your presets on it too, winner!

Cool! Have you done this yet? I'll get mine updated😁

[SumOne]

Just now, lee650 said:

Cool! Have you done this yet? I'll get mine updated😁

I have and it works- although I am finding that I sometimes need to power up the C4 first and then the DMC or they don't talk to each other...which is a bit of a hassle needing to remember to unplug/plug in the DMC each session. I'm not sure if that's the fault of the DMC (perhaps the Beta version has bugs?) or the C4 though. 

[SumOne]

11 hours ago, stewblack said:

Bought my hub from Bass Direct. Still no sign of it. Must be coming via Bass Indirect.

Steep learning curve awaits me should it ever arrive. 

Good luck!

The faff of firmware updates and midi mapping etc is something that's put me off digital pedals (at least the ones that have midi/usb and need updates etc). I spent about 3hrs getting the DMC micro firmware updated and settings all correct for the C4 and naming presets and assigning the alternative CC controls...turned it all off and next time I turned it on they wouldn't talk to each other! Seems sorted now though, digital pedals probably are the way forward once it's all set up but I nearly threw them both out of the window at one point!  

[Quatschmacher]

8 minutes ago, SumOne said:

I have and it works- although I am finding that I sometimes need to power up the C4 first and then the DMC or they don't talk to each other...which is a bit of a hassle needing to remember to unplug/plug in the DMC each session. I'm not sure if that's the fault of the DMC (perhaps the Beta version has bugs?) or the C4 though. 

I think there’s a power option you need to switch in one of the devices. Can’t remember if it’s the C4’s “skip power test upon boot” option or something in the DMC. There’s discussion about it on either TB or the Gear Page. 

[SumOne]

1 minute ago, Quatschmacher said:

I think there’s a power option you need to switch in one of the devices. Can’t remember if it’s the C4’s “skip power test upon boot” option or something in the DMC. There’s discussion about it on either TB or the Gear Page. 

Nice one, I'll track that down.

 

[stewblack]

1 hour ago, SumOne said:

The faff of firmware updates and midi mapping etc is something that's put me off digital pedals

It's put me off too, but the joy of the Source Audio stuff is that while it can all be integrated so multiple pedals behave like a multi effect, it doesn't have to be. 

It can just be individual pedals. So I have an easy 'in' but can dig deeper if I choose. 

[moley6knipe]

1 hour ago, SumOne said:

Nice one, I'll track that down.

 

From the C4 manual (with apols for formatting!), think it’s this setting?

USB    MIDI    Skip    Power    Check: The    C4    can    receive    MIDI    PC    messages    via    the    pedal’s    USB    port.    
It    requires    MIDI    DAW    software    or    a    MIDI    host    device    with    USB.    The    C4    should    respond    to    
most    devices,    but    some    don’t    generate    enough    power    for    the    C4    to    recognize    them    as    a    MIDI    
host    (the    MIDI    Baby    and    qCONNECT from    Disaster    Area    Designs are    two    examples).    If    your    C4    
is    not    responding    to    your    MIDI    host    device,    try    checking    this    box.

[lee650]

4 hours ago, SumOne said:

Good luck!

The faff of firmware updates and midi mapping etc is something that's put me off digital pedals (at least the ones that have midi/usb and need updates etc). I spent about 3hrs getting the DMC micro firmware updated and settings all correct for the C4 and naming presets and assigning the alternative CC controls...turned it all off and next time I turned it on they wouldn't talk to each other! Seems sorted now though, digital pedals probably are the way forward once it's all set up but I nearly threw them both out of the window at one point!  

Goodness that sounds like a faff! But as I want the preset names,it's going to have to be done. So you need to manually type the names in? Is there a YouTube walkthrough for the process? 😁

[SumOne]

1 hour ago, lee650 said:

Goodness that sounds like a faff! But as I want the preset names,it's going to have to be done. So you need to manually type the names in? Is there a YouTube walkthrough for the process? 😁

There is a video of what the Beta version does  https://www.disasterareadesigns.com/dmc-beta but that just starts at the point of it already having been updated on the pedal, further down the page is the Beta version file and I got information about updating the device from a different manual somewhere on their site (I can't see where it is now as their link to the manual on the beta page is broken) basically you need to re-name the downloaded Beta file to the same name as the one that appears on the device- then delete the old file and drag the new file onto the device.  Bear in mind they say "WARNING! Use of this beta firmware is fraught with peril and may result in anguish and uncertainty. Proceed with caution."  I don't disagree, other than perhaps to change the word 'may' for 'will'. 

I then needed to watch this video for connecting with a C4  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxEGIKOU_1U

 

Further down that Beta page has a link to the preset renamer, the help screen of that is useful- you need to set the DMC from hub to to midi for it to be read by the renamer (and then back to hub to work with the C4).

....it then took me a few more steps as I was also re-numbering/naming things on C4 Neuro to match the DMC names (and Neuro keeps freezing and crashing for me) and was also sorting out the alt controls which need the corresponding C4 CC values mapped to the DMC- there's information on how to do that in the C4 and DMC manuals, it works but I'm not sure I've got it set up in the simplest way.

The C4 'skip power' thing had been checked so I'm not sure why it still occasionally doesn't recognise the DMC if they are both turned on at the same time but I'm giving up for the time being as I've found a temporary fix of just unplugging/re-plugging the DMC.

It's a faff for sure, worth it eventually though!

[lee650]

Thank you so much! That's really helpful, but just reading this, has given me a headache and is making my teeth itch. I think ill wait, until they've sorted out the bugs and go back to my numerical system 😂

[SumOne]

4 hours ago, lee650 said:

Thank you so much! That's really helpful, but just reading this, has given me a headache and is making my teeth itch. I think ill wait, until they've sorted out the bugs and go back to my numerical system 😂

Yeah I don't blame you for waiting. Something else I've found is that the scrolling through the named presets automatically turns the C4 on which might not always be ideal (but can be turned off if holding the left button down before scrolling through in the device number Preset menu). There's probably a solution buried in youtube videos/manuals/menus somewhere but my patience and motivation is wearing thin!

It's these sort of hassles that a few month ago would have me returning these pedals (I had already owned a C4 and returned it). I think (hope) it'll be worth it in the end though, the C4 does make some excellent sounds and it's worth having an additional controller to access them. 

Edited June 9, 2021 by SumOne

[moley6knipe]

I don’t know how much control the DMC gives you over this but…. On the C4, sending it CC 104 and a value recalls that preset number Engaged. CC 103 and a value recalls that preset number Bypassed.

I *guess* that ‘behind the scenes’ the DMC  is actually sending these values hence why (with you holding down left button) it’s able to send “engaged” or “bypassed” CC - and it must be sending CC coz you can’t change presets on a C4 using Program Change MIDI messages

Edited June 9, 2021 by moley6knipe

[Al Krow]

Just wondering if it would be too much to ask for SA to add something like this display to their pedals?

Save a lot of angst and extra costs of midi etc. for us bass players and we could focus on actually playing bass rather than addressing shortcomings like a lack of basic display, in already expensive kit. Or am I just being too old fashioned?