Source Audio C4 Synth Pedal

[moley6knipe]

Never heard of the Ampero, just had a skim of the manual! So - does the Ampero provide USB host? If not it probs won’t be able to control the C4. SA Neuro Hub is the usual solution for adding host to the C4 BUT SA are working on a cable that will negate the need for a Hub with C4.

 

Assuming connection, you’ll first need to map the midi functions you want to use on the C4. Page 42 of the manual https://www.sourceaudio.net/uploads/1/1/5/1/115104065/sa248_c4_synth_user_guidev2.pdf

You’ll need to map increment/decrement to a CC number of your choice. Hint: for on/off functions like engage/bypass toggle use 0 for off and 127 for on…

 

Basically, send a CC number and value which corresponds to those mapped on the C4 to whatever midi channel the C4 is on and you’re away!

[MrFunkH]

Hi! Yes, I have to use a Midiplus host to connect both. 

But, as I map the 106 and 107 CCs to increment and decrement, I get nothing. I have 4 modes on the switches: single, toggle, momentary and hold. I'm using single, then CC 106, value 127. This (in theory) should suffice to send an increment of "1" to the presets. 

Now I came into a predicament: how to start from preset 0 and add 1 preset at a time, whenever I press the switch? or the same for decrements of 1.  It's complicated because the controller's display gives me the number of the CC I sent i.e. 106 or 107, not the preset number, so I never know where am I according to the loaded presets on the C4.

 

[moley6knipe]

Yeah your mapping and values are correct. Don’t know why that’s not working then… sorry for the obvious question but the midi data can actually reach the C4 through your host device? And you’re sending the CC to the midi channel that the C4 is on?

 

I don’t know how “clever” the Ampero is, but some controllers eg Morningstar let you offset the displayed value given that midi starts at 0 and c4 presets start at 1.

 

I don’t know if it will help, but sending CC 104 value 0 will engage preset 1 on the C4. Maybe you can program something like “long press loads preset 1, then short press sends ‘increment preset’ CC?

Edited July 14, 2022 by moley6knipe

[MrFunkH]

14 hours ago, moley6knipe said:

Yeah your mapping and values are correct. Don’t know why that’s not working then… sorry for the obvious question but the midi data can actually reach the C4 through your host device? And you’re sending the CC to the midi channel that the C4 is on?

 

I don’t know how “clever” the Ampero is, but some controllers eg Morningstar let you offset the displayed value given that midi starts at 0 and c4 presets start at 1.

 

I don’t know if it will help, but sending CC 104 value 0 will engage preset 1 on the C4. Maybe you can program something like “long press loads preset 1, then short press sends ‘increment preset’ CC?

That's a clever solution. I will try that out and I'll get back to you. As for the data transfer, it needs a MIDI host to hook the pedal and the controller together, but yes, it does send the messages. I think it's a user interface issue! hehe

 

15 hours ago, moley6knipe said:

Never heard of the Ampero, just had a skim of the manual! So - does the Ampero provide USB host? If not it probs won’t be able to control the C4. SA Neuro Hub is the usual solution for adding host to the C4 BUT SA are working on a cable that will negate the need for a Hub with C4.

 

Assuming connection, you’ll first need to map the midi functions you want to use on the C4. Page 42 of the manual https://www.sourceaudio.net/uploads/1/1/5/1/115104065/sa248_c4_synth_user_guidev2.pdf

You’ll need to map increment/decrement to a CC number of your choice. Hint: for on/off functions like engage/bypass toggle use 0 for off and 127 for on…

 

Basically, send a CC number and value which corresponds to those mapped on the C4 to whatever midi channel the C4 is on and you’re away!

 

[Berserker]

I've just received my C4 and have no idea what I'm doing! Lots of learning to do as I don't know anything about synths at all.

 

I want to recreate the 'Beat It' intro sound, which was a Synclavier patch... any tips on where to start? I literally have no idea what kind of waves or filters I need to use, I'm in over my head!

[Quatschmacher]

21 minutes ago, Berserker said:

I've just received my C4 and have no idea what I'm doing! Lots of learning to do as I don't know anything about synths at all.

 

I want to recreate the 'Beat It' intro sound, which was a Synclavier patch... any tips on where to start? I literally have no idea what kind of waves or filters I need to use, I'm in over my head!

Start with Zach Rizer’s walkthrough video of the pedal for what the C4 does. 
 

To learn about synthesis, use this fun interactive site:

https://learningsynths.ableton.com

 

[Berserker]

49 minutes ago, Quatschmacher said:

Start with Zach Rizer’s walkthrough video of the pedal for what the C4 does. 
 

To learn about synthesis, use this fun interactive site:

https://learningsynths.ableton.com

 

 

Thanks, man, there's some great stuff there!

[MrFunkH]

Hi guys! I finally solved my C4 MIDI issues. It was simple once I got a clear idea. I programmed on switch one of the Ampero Control a recall for the first preset of the C4, so I can always go back to square 1! (Mode: SIngle, channel 1, CC 104, Data 0). On the second one the increase preset (Mode: SIngle, channel 1, CC 106, Data 0). On the third the decrease preset (Mode: SIngle, channel 1, CC 107, Data 0). And on the 4th switch a tap tempo (Mode: SIngle, channel 1, CC 93, Data 0). I'm also using the Source Audio Dual Expression Pedal, straight to the C4 via the Control Input jack. As simple as that. I hope anyone can use this info. Enjoy!

[carlitos71]

9 hours ago, MrFunkH said:

Hi guys! I finally solved my C4 MIDI issues. It was simple once I got a clear idea. I programmed on switch one of the Ampero Control a recall for the first preset of the C4, so I can always go back to square 1! (Mode: SIngle, channel 1, CC 104, Data 0). On the second one the increase preset (Mode: SIngle, channel 1, CC 106, Data 0). On the third the decrease preset (Mode: SIngle, channel 1, CC 107, Data 0). And on the 4th switch a tap tempo (Mode: SIngle, channel 1, CC 93, Data 0). I'm also using the Source Audio Dual Expression Pedal, straight to the C4 via the Control Input jack. As simple as that. I hope anyone can use this info. Enjoy!

Thanks for sharing

[Loupi]

Hello Basschatters!

 

I have a question, regarding how to retrigger an enveloppe, when playing the same note, without re-hammering the fret.

 

I'm using the C4 synth pedal, with the moog bass synth jim 1 community patch. I love how it sounds. My pitch is tracked well.

 

Let's say I'd like to ear that 'pwee' sound on every notes that I strum. For example I want to play a D 4 times. If, between each notes, I gently release the fret and re-hammer it, I get that 'pwee' on all of em. But, if I only hammer the fret on the first note, keep my fretting finger there, and play the other three notes, the enveloppe is not retriggered and it sounds like 'pwee' 'duh' 'dum' 'duh',  'duh' being muddy.

 

Re-hammering the fret on every note is kinda black art, I'm getting into it, but while recording a whole track I still miss some notes.

 

Between, I'm having the same issue with my MXR Bass Enveloppe Filter pedal.

 

Do you guys have any tricks from the trenches that could help here? It would be greatly appreciated.

[Quatschmacher]

1 minute ago, Loupi said:

Hello Basschatters!

 

I have a question, regarding how to retrigger an enveloppe, when playing the same note, without re-hammering the fret.

 

I'm using the C4 synth pedal, with the moog bass synth jim 1 community patch. I love how it sounds. My pitch is tracked well.

 

Let's say I'd like to ear that 'pwee' sound on every notes that I strum. For example I want to play a D 4 times. If, between each notes, I gently release the fret and re-hammer it, I get that 'pwee' on all of em. But, if I only hammer the fret on the first note, keep my fretting finger there, and play the other three notes, the enveloppe is not retriggered and it sounds like 'pwee' 'duh' 'dum' 'duh',  'duh' being muddy.

 

Re-hammering the fret on every note is kinda black art, I'm getting into it, but while recording a whole track I still miss some notes.

 

Between, I'm having the same issue with my MXR Bass Enveloppe Filter pedal.

 

Do you guys have any tricks from the trenches that could help here? It would be greatly appreciated.

It’s a question of good muting between each note. I found that using synth pedals highlighted problems in my technique, mainly that I wasn’t alternating fingers strictly, which in turn caused muting issues.

 

The Gary Willis muting technique of placing the non-plucking finger on the string immediately after the plucking finger has played the note works well. This in combination with left-hand muting between notes should help a lot. 
 

You can actually use the C4 as a practice tool to work on these things. 

[Loupi]

Thank you Quatschmacher,

 

I will definitively have a look at that Gary Willis technique. 😀

[Loupi]

13 minutes ago, Quatschmacher said:

It’s a question of good muting between each note. I found that using synth pedals highlighted problems in my technique, mainly that I wasn’t alternating fingers strictly, which in turn caused muting issues.

 

The Gary Willis muting technique of placing the non-plucking finger on the string immediately after the plucking finger has played the note works well. This in combination with left-hand muting between notes should help a lot. 
 

You can actually use the C4 as a practice tool to work on these things. 

Wow! Just tried it, and it works! 

[thisisswanbon]

Having a couple of C4 issues, anyone came across these?

 

1. There is no two way communication between phone and C4 via usb (C4 running 1.21)

 

2. Using SA tap tempo to control my tremelo on a patch for bonkers by Dizzee rascal; the tap tempo doesn't seem to track what I'm punching in, sometimes it jumps by 20 BPM or more, and I'm not THAT bad with timing. 

 

Issue I have is our drummer is over excitable, and comes in a good 10~15bpm faster than the intro sample, and when I tap the new tempo in it doesn't just speed up the tremelo, it seems to restart it and puts it out of sync with the rest of the band before I can get it back under control. I've tried setting it to restart when triggered and not, but no difference. I thought the tap tempo would just slow it down or speed it up in real time 🤯

Edited August 20, 2022 by thisisswanbon

[Quatschmacher]

1 hour ago, thisisswanbon said:

Having a couple of C4 issues, anyone came across these?

 

1. There is no two way communication between phone and C4 via usb (C4 running 1.21)

 

2. Using SA tap tempo to control my tremelo on a patch for bonkers by Dizzee rascal; the tap tempo doesn't seem to track what I'm punching in, sometimes it jumps by 20 BPM or more, and I'm not THAT bad with timing. 

 

Issue I have is our drummer is over excitable, and comes in a good 10~15bpm faster than the intro sample, and when I tap the new tempo in it doesn't just slow down the tremelo, it seems to restart it and make it go all weird before I can get it back under control. I've tried setting it to restart when triggered and not, but no difference. I thought the tap tempo would just slow it down or speed it up in real time 🤯

Regarding point 1, is your phone app on the latest version too? If both phone and C4 are on the latest version and you’re still having problems connecting, email source audio support. 
 

During beta testing I did see an issue where the connection graphic wasn’t showing when plugging in until I’d recalled a preset, even though the connection was definitely working. 

[thisisswanbon]

7 hours ago, Quatschmacher said:

Regarding point 1, is your phone app on the latest version too? If both phone and C4 are on the latest version and you’re still having problems connecting, email source audio support. 
 

During beta testing I did see an issue where the connection graphic wasn’t showing when plugging in until I’d recalled a preset, even though the connection was definitely working. 

Hey Quatschmacher, 

 

Yeah both app and pedal are latest versions. I'll drop them an email.

 

The app just doesn't seem to acknowledge that the pedal is plugged in so doesn't show me anything that's on the pedal, my phone does though.

[Quatschmacher]

42 minutes ago, thisisswanbon said:

Hey Quatschmacher, 

 

Yeah both app and pedal are latest versions. I'll drop them an email.

 

The app just doesn't seem to acknowledge that the pedal is plugged in so doesn't show me anything that's on the pedal, my phone does though.

Are you perhaps using a charger cable instead of a data cable?

[thisisswanbon]

13 hours ago, Quatschmacher said:

Are you perhaps using a charger cable instead of a data cable?

I'd assumed it was a data cable, but checking the cable I use for my pc set up would probably be a good shout!

[bassist_lewis]

Morning guys, I just got a C4 last week and so far I'm really enjoying building sounds, though its been a while since I last programmed a synth! I have a question about power. The manual says it needs 150mA at 9v. I use the Gigrig power system, and the isolator puts out 135mA per output. To my ears, the C4 works perfectly at that amperage, but are those 15mA reducing the functionality of the pedal?

thanks

L

[thisisswanbon]

53 minutes ago, bassist_lewis said:

Morning guys, I just got a C4 last week and so far I'm really enjoying building sounds, though its been a while since I last programmed a synth! I have a question about power. The manual says it needs 150mA at 9v. I use the Gigrig power system, and the isolator puts out 135mA per output. To my ears, the C4 works perfectly at that amperage, but are those 15mA reducing the functionality of the pedal?

thanks

L

Hey Lewis.

 

I once tried to run mine on a Cioks DC5 on one of the 100mA outputs (I know yours is higher, but may still be helpful).  It seemed to work fine, but occasionally it would malfunction and give me a flashing green light and stop producing sound, as if it was in a permanent cycle of trying to boot up.  I now keep mine on it's own 300mA output on the cioks now.  

[Quatschmacher]

Don’t underfeed the pedal otherwise you risk losing presets at some point. I learned the hard way. 

[bassist_lewis]

9 hours ago, thisisswanbon said:

Hey Lewis.

 

I once tried to run mine on a Cioks DC5 on one of the 100mA outputs (I know yours is higher, but may still be helpful).  It seemed to work fine, but occasionally it would malfunction and give me a flashing green light and stop producing sound, as if it was in a permanent cycle of trying to boot up.  I now keep mine on it's own 300mA output on the cioks now.  

 

7 hours ago, Quatschmacher said:

Don’t underfeed the pedal otherwise you risk losing presets at some point. I learned the hard way. 

I haven't had any issues like that so far, just the odd failure of the tracking to keep up with my shred! I'm mainly putting it off coz the Gigrig high current adaptor puts out 1000mA and that just feels like overkill 😂

[AJ567]

5 hours ago, bassist_lewis said:

 

I haven't had any issues like that so far, just the odd failure of the tracking to keep up with my shred! I'm mainly putting it off coz the Gigrig high current adaptor puts out 1000mA and that just feels like overkill 😂

 

You could put it on a Joyo ZGP which is cheap and cheerful alternative. Or, if you have two gigrig isolated outs spare you could bridge them with a current doubler cable/adapter.

[thisisswanbon]

15 hours ago, bassist_lewis said:

 

I haven't had any issues like that so far, just the odd failure of the tracking to keep up with my shred! I'm mainly putting it off coz the Gigrig high current adaptor puts out 1000mA and that just feels like overkill 😂

I've found with my C4 that unless my playing is pristine then (which unfortunately it seldom is) then it's tracking can be a bit temperamental, but I think that's just synth pedals in general.

 

There's no worse feeling than when we play stuff like Rhythm is a dancer by Snap! and instead of the big FM synth sound, there's just a dull thud as it hasn't triggered because I didn't quite mute enough; and that bassline is firmly shred-free!

[bassist_lewis]

8 hours ago, thisisswanbon said:

I've found with my C4 that unless my playing is pristine then (which unfortunately it seldom is) then it's tracking can be a bit temperamental, but I think that's just synth pedals in general.

 

There's no worse feeling than when we play stuff like Rhythm is a dancer by Snap! and instead of the big FM synth sound, there's just a dull thud as it hasn't triggered because I didn't quite mute enough; and that bassline is firmly shred-free!

Yeah, seems to be part of the territory for synth pedals. My EHX Micro Synth tracks better, but doesn't quite nail the sounds, and obviously can't do arpeggios. The C4 being Boss-sized means it wins a place on the board.