Guest subaudio Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) I've discovered a very irritating trend among "musicians" lately and am wondering how widespread it is I'm not talking about changing covers for artistic and creative reasons, that's totally valid in my opinion,. I'm talking about bands that just CBA to learn the parts or even arrangements of covers. I started playing professionally many years ago on the working mens club circuit, the band could all play, learned their respective parts and nailed the arrangements, we'd sometimes change bits such as endings to segway or such and I learned a huge amount about song construction and bass lines. All good. Fast forward to now and the last several bands I've auditioned for went like this: I get a call for an audition, I ask for a set list and the keys the songs are played in so theres no mix up if they changed key for the vocalists or the copy I'm working on is pitch shifted, as sometimes happens on YouTube to confuse copyright bots. I learn said songs, note perfect and know the arrangements. I turn up to the audition and no one is playing the right parts and they are playing a campfire arrangement of the song, nothing in the right place or order and big sections missed out altogether or with random extended "jam" sections I'm trying to compensate by second guessing what might happen next or when the singer decides they might fancy doing a bit of singing at some point in the song and it makes it sound like I can't play because they all know their own way of "playing" the song. I even got asked to play lobotomised versions of the bass lines because they "aren't used to hearing those notes" in a ska band! Bass driven music that I learned meticulously and they don't like the proper bassline! Is it just me, where I live, or do other people get this as well? Edited January 19, 2019 by subaudio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_derby Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) Yep. Pretty universal I think. Just last week I watched a pub band whose bass player just couldn't stop himself playing on the verse of All Right Now. Sounded pants to me. Maybe not to most of the audience though, I don't know. Are we being too picky? Edited January 19, 2019 by Len_derby 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest subaudio Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Len_derby said: Yep. Pretty universal I think. Just last week I watched a pub band whose bass player just couldn't stop himself playing on the verse of All Right Now. Sounded pants to me. Maybe not to most of the audience though, I don't know. Are we being to picky? I got funny looks for not playing in the verses in that same song. I just don't get it. Theres so much to be learned from how a song is put together, how a bass line is put together, dynamics etc. Why wouldn't a musician want to learn all that on their chosen instrument? I prefer picky all day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicbassman Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 Yup, come across this many times at auditions. The worse thing is there's always ONE member of the band (the guitar widdler or keyboard player) who will take your polite suggestion that their particular choice of chord is.... er... 'unusual' as a gross personal insult - so you won't get the gig anyway - you're obviously going to be a threat to their status in the band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest subaudio Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, musicbassman said: Yup, come across this many times at auditions. The worse thing is there's always ONE member of the band (the guitar widdler or keyboard player) who will take your polite suggestion that their particular choice of chord is.... er... 'unusual' as a gross personal insult - so you won't get the gig anyway - you're obviously going to be a threat to their status in the band. That's what happened in the ska band Me playing the actual bassline that cleverly ties all the proper chords together made their "version" of the chords sound wrong, so they asked me to play just quarter note root notes to their wrong chords. I refused and declined the gig. Edited January 19, 2019 by subaudio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 You wouldn't want to be in that band anyway. Future rehearsals would be a frustrating nightmare 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) Perhaps the band simply have a relaxed attitude to covers, perhaps its how they get the flavor of a song but do it their own way. Its rock and roll, there are no rules. Edited January 19, 2019 by mikel Adition 6 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Steve Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 Playing wise, I’ve only had this once - a mate asked me to replace the departing guitarist in his punk covers band. Turning up at the first practice with charts for the very hastily learned set of about 25 songs, well over half were in the wrong key or had the wrong arrangement. All a hangover from the previous guitarists somewhat limited abilities. fortunately the band were eager to get the songs right - there were a lot of “oh yeah, that’s how it goes/that sounds a lot more like the original/that sounds better” from the rest of the band. Having then learned the set and after playing it for a few years I’d sometimes be surprised to hear the originals with a slightly different arrangement - our version would subtly morph over time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 36 minutes ago, subaudio said: ...we'd sometimes change bits such as endings to segway or such ... Is that a modern version of the expression 'Get on your bike'..? 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest subaudio Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, mikel said: Perhaps the band simply have a relaxed attitude to covers, perhaps its how they get the flavor of a song but do it their own way. Its rock and roll, there are no rules. I have no issue with being creative with versions, I'm quite into it as I stopped doing covers in my early twenties and switched to original bands. What I'm experiencing isn't that, it's a lack of willingness to do any work. Laziness basically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Steve Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 Also, online tabs have a lot to answer for. Especially guitar tabs 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest subaudio Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 I think one of the factors is the internet. Folk go to sites that have a basic chord chart and lyrics and use that, they never study the actual song and it's parts. They just CBA.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, subaudio said: I have no issue with being creative with versions, I'm quite into it as I stopped doing covers in my early twenties and switched to original bands. What I'm experiencing isn't that, it's a lack of willingness to do any work. Laziness basically. Are there version with "Extended improv parts" not a version of being "Creative" in their own way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) It is a constant trickle of irritation in my little band. Drummer and I take pains to get note/beat perfect if practicable or necessary (although not always). Guitarist (who else?) is an exceptionally capable and talented player but always tries to shoehorn in 'doing our own version' because I believe his memory is failing - he prefers to busk things. Sometimes, as a result, we end up doing some very good alternative versions but, sometimes, it all sounds much the same. One tune in particular irritates the tits off me - no idea why particularly - we do Roachford's 'Cuddly Toy'. He insists on playing over the breakdown where there should be no guitar. Kills the song stone dead by taking away the light and shade. There, unloaded that, feels much better [/rant] Edited January 19, 2019 by Paul S 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest subaudio Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Monkey Steve said: Also, online tabs have a lot to answer for. Especially guitar tabsi I just posted on that before seeing ypur post I totally agree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest subaudio Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 1 minute ago, mikel said: Are there version with "Extended improv parts" not a version of being "Creative" in their own way? I see what your saying. I like improv, I'm all for it but does House Of The Rising Sun have to be twenty minutes long with several extended solos? It's a matter of taste and lots of songs just don't work without the correct orchestration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 I couldn't play in a band that doesn't learn the song properly or as near as possible. At the very least they should know the structure. I'll accept small insignificant things that really aren't noticed in the big scheme of things and i include myself in that. In some bands i've adapted the bassline to suit what i feel is right in a live band. I can get away with playing more or with more aggression than the original recording. A lot depends on the band i'm playing with. If they want the exact note for note version then that's what they get. I def like a little freedom tho and my current band allows me to do that. I can't play with guys that turn up at a rehearsal and try to ad-lib or wing it thru the songs especialy when i've spent hours learning the bass line spot on. I find guitarists are the worst for that IME Dave 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 My experience of this is playing in an Americana outfit originally formed by a ukelele-playing music-in-the-community merchant. She was very enthusiastic and did a lot of good, but she was a very limited musician and either couldn't or CBA to learn the songs properly. Over a couple of years the band attracted some much better musicians because the song choices were a lot of fun, but each as they joined pretty much 'dumbed down' to her level. Finally their long-term bassist left and I was recruited, and I don't do dumbing down. If it's a 5-chord song then I play five chords ... I don't leave out the funny ones in the bridge because someone hasn't learned those chords on a uke. It didn't end well. She got her boyfriend (guitar & banjo) to sack me, which he did very apologetically, then it turned out the rest of the band didn't know until it was too late and within a month both she and her boyfriend were out of the band and they had split up too. I should stress that there are no villains in this piece. She wasn't evil, her boyfriend wasn't a silly billy, and I probably didn't help matters. But stinky poo happens. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) In the days when I still auditioned for covers bands I'd ask for the set list, the keys, which versions of songs (if applicable). I'd get the details, learn the songs, turn up and encounter exactly what the OP describes. So I started asking people in advance whether they did the songs as per the original arrangements or not. If 'as original', I'd learn the songs. If not, I'd tip up and busk the audition. The only problem was they'd all tell me they played the original versions when - in fact - they didn't. Because these people literally could not perceive any difference between the original and the half-arrsed racket they played. It wasn't that they'd deliberately rearranged the songs - they'd just never bothered to sit and listen to the songs from beginning to end, or to make notes and agree a structure and stick to it. This - along with the usual vortex of lies, madness and egotism - is why I f**king hate amateur bands. Edited January 19, 2019 by skankdelvar 4 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger2611 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 I've had to learn Separate Ways by Journey for one of the current bands I am with, it was not a song I knew so I did a bit of hunting on Youtube and found a guy who really played it correctly so learnt that version, at the first proper rehearsal we kicked into it and it sounded terrible, the band had been playing some weird quasi version based around the previous bass player playing the same chords as the guitar, I have got them to learn it properly now and it sounds far better for it! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest subaudio Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, skankdelvar said: In the days when I still auditioned for covers bands I'd ask for the set list, the keys, which versions of songs (if applicable). I'd get the details, learn the songs, turn up and encounter exactly what the OP describes. So I started asking people in advance whether they did the songs as per the original arrangements or not. If 'as original', I'd learn the songs. If not, I'd tip up and busk the audition. The only problem was they'd all tell me they played the original versions when - in fact - they didn't. Because these people literally could not perceive any difference between the original and the half-arrsed racket they played. It wasn't that they'd deliberately rearranged the songs - they'd just never bothered to sit and listen to the songs from beginning to end, or to make notes and agree a structure and stick to it. This - along with the usual vortex of lies, madness and egotism - is why I f**king hate bands. Exactly this apart from I don't hate bands, I love them, I just want to be in a good one. Edited January 19, 2019 by subaudio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurhenry Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 This is one of the inherent difficulties of the cover band world. There are excellent musicians, some of whom are pros who also work with well known artists, serious, practising players, average, non committal types and appallingly bad pretenders. They all play the same gigs and some of them are even in the same bands together. No one in the audience cares and venue owners who book the bands don't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurhenry Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, subaudio said: these people literally could not perceive any difference between the original and the half-arrsed racket they played. Neither could the audience or venue owners who booked them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest subaudio Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) The other factor is that all these recent auditions were for imminent gigs. Like two 45 minute sets in ten days time. How can they expect to give me songs to learn, in short notice, that aren't the songs they've given me to learn? They also CBA to even record a rehearsal and give me that to learn. I could work with that but a total random version with no structure and no copy is impossible. Even free jazz has structure. Edited January 19, 2019 by subaudio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Monkey Steve said: Also, online tabs have a lot to answer for. Especially guitar tabs Youtube tutorials can be confusing too.as tutorials on the same song often outright contradict each other, are simplified versions or are flat out wrong. The other day I was trying to find an accurate version for the guitar part of 'I Want You Back' by the Jacksons. I watched four videos, each with their own unique (and often wildly inaccurate) take on it. Edited January 19, 2019 by Cato 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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