Bands that wont learn covers properly.

[dmccombe7]

We record our rehearsals and have started a new keys player attending his first rehearsal with us tomorrow.

We gave him the list of all our songs with keys and what versions. I also gave him a copy of our rehearsals to get the song endings and of course give him an idea of how we sounded. I also gave him my notes on how every song ended (regarded as the bible of notes in our band) 

As much information as possible to allow him to get up to speed as soon as possible with our current set of just 32 songs. 

Dave

[Guest subaudio]

I found this too.

If I couldn't hear a certain fill or the original bassist was using a strange passing note that got lost in the orchestration I'd search for a YouTube instruction video. Very few had it right.

There were some really good ones too.

[Guest subaudio]

2 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

We record our rehearsals and have started a new keys player attending his first rehearsal with us tomorrow.

We gave him the list of all our songs with keys and what versions. I also gave him a copy of our rehearsals to get the song endings and of course give him an idea of how we sounded. I also gave him my notes on how every song ended (regarded as the bible of notes in our band) 

As much information as possible to allow him to get up to speed as soon as possible with our current set of just 32 songs. 

Dave

Top stuff.

I saved up for ages (I'm skint) to buy a Zoom video thing with decent mics so I could do the same.

[skankdelvar]

I once learned 30 songs in a week in preparation for auditioning with a Jam tribute outfit whose bassist was leaving. On the Saturday night before audition week I went to see them play in a bar just to check them out.

The band's arrangements were spot on to the originals, no problem there

Unfortunately the 'Weller' could neither sing in tune nor play anything beyond the most basic chords nor enthuse the audience. The only thing he got right was Weller's driven charmless-ness.

[dmccombe7]

3 minutes ago, subaudio said:

Top stuff.

I saved up for ages (I'm skint) to buy a Zoom video thing with decent mics so I could do the same.

I have the Zoom as well but found the singers phone gave a better recording sound for some reason. Maybe just where i had the zoom sitting but its easier for him to start the recording with his phone.

[dmccombe7]

3 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

I once learned 30 songs in a week in preparation for auditioning with a Jam tribute outfit whose bassist was leaving. On the Saturday night before audition week I went to see them play in a bar just to check them out.

The band's arrangements were spot on to the originals, no problem there

Unfortunately the 'Weller' could neither sing in tune nor play anything beyond the most basic chords nor enthuse the audience. The only thing he got right was Weller's driven charmless-ness.

Did you still go ahead with the band or decide to drop it there and then ?

Worst i've had to do was learn 34 songs in 3 weeks without rehearsals and after first week went by i decided to ask the guitarist what keys as i had assumed they were all the original keys but nope they played half their set in different keys and had to do them over again. 

Dave

[Guest subaudio]

Just now, dmccombe7 said:

I have the Zoom as well but found the singers phone gave a better recording sound for some reason. Maybe just where i had the zoom sitting but its easier for him to start the recording with his phone.

Fair play, phones can be awesome these days and a video is a big file to email.

I like how zoom capture the bass end though for bass and when I'm wearing my drummer hat. The menus can be a pain but good when you get a sound you like, ive discovered they can record just audio which is better for emailing to everyone.

[Guest subaudio]

17 minutes ago, Cato said:

Youtube tutorials can be confusing too.as tutorials on the same song often outright contradict each other, are simplified versions or are flat out wrong.

The other day I was trying to find an accurate version for the guitar part of 'I Want You Back' by the Jacksons. I watched four videos each with their own unique (and usually wildly inaccurate) take on it.

Sorry, haven't fully got the hang of the new (to me) reply thing here, I have replied but its further down the thread sans quote. Basically yes, many YouTube "how to" are wrong. Some really good ones too but only a few.

[skankdelvar]

2 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Did you still go ahead with the band or decide to drop it there and then ?

That and a couple of other things relating to The Weller's manner and his grasp on sanity led me to email him to confide that I wasn't a competent enough musician to join his band, warmest wishes for the future.

I then changed my name and fled to Indonesia.

[Guest subaudio]

I'd just like to say thank you to you all for allowing me to rant,  feel better now and it's good to know its not just me

[oldslapper]

I'm always amazed by the amount of musicians (that gig regularly) with an impaired ability to hear relatively simple chords/chord progressions/arrangements/melody. 

I don't quite know what they're hearing when they play songs (incorrectly).

Edited January 19, 2019 by oldslapper

[Rich]

2 hours ago, subaudio said:

I even got asked to play lobotomised versions of the bass lines because they "aren't used to hearing those notes" in a ska band! Bass driven music that I learned meticulously and they don't like the proper bassline!

I want to ask which songs, but I suspect it'd make me weep. I love playing ska.

[Monkey Steve]

1 hour ago, Cato said:

Youtube tutorials can be confusing too.as tutorials on the same song often outright contradict each other, are simplified versions or are flat out wrong.

The other day I was trying to find an accurate version for the guitar part of 'I Want You Back' by the Jacksons. I watched four videos each with their own unique (and usually wildly inaccurate) take on it.

I depped with a band for a couple of gigs at Christmas, which was all fast, technical death metal, meaning that the sound on their early albums was awful, just mush with no discernible bass.  But it mostly followed the guitar so I found a few guitar tabs and tried learning some of the bass from that.  

Not one had the correct guitar lines I don’t mean not getting the correct chord shape, but actually getting the melody completely wrong.

the odd thing was that they usually fitted so I did use a couple to try and work out the bass but whenever I’d take it into the studio there would be a shake of the head from the guitarists, no, that’s not what we play...

Edited January 19, 2019 by Monkey Steve

[Guest subaudio]

8 minutes ago, Rich said:

I want to ask which songs, but I suspect it'd make me weep. I love playing ska.

Me too now, it wasn't my thing before but I like it now.

TBH I never realised how good the bass lines were till I had to learn them, loads of clever passing notes and nice harmonic interplay, I realised playing it makes me smile too  

 

It was all the 80's hits, all totally butchered sadly.

[yorks5stringer]

Just worked out the 'CBA' being used in some  the posts in this thread is not a chord sequence...

Edited January 19, 2019 by yorks5stringer

[Guest subaudio]

4 minutes ago, yorks5stringer said:

Just worked out the 'CBA' being used in some  the posts in this thread is not a chord sequence...

I like the way your brain works

[Ricky 4000]

Great thread, and I totally agree about how lazy and/or hopeless some players can be.

8 hours ago, subaudio said:

It was all the 80's hits, all totally butchered sadly.

Don't say they ruined "Lip up fatty". Please no, not that one! 😁

[Baxlin]

Excellent and very interesting thread, thanks to all who've posted.  In our covers jamming band we do both.  On some, where there is only 'the one' version, slavishly following the original (eg a couple of Travelling Willburys songs), on others, where there may be many different offerings out there, we’ll do our own arrangement.  

But then we’re all retired old blokes just out to enjoy ourselves......

[Guest subaudio]

4 hours ago, Ricky 4000 said:

Great thread, and I totally agree about how lazy and/or hopeless some players can be.

Don't say they ruined "Lip up fatty". Please no, not that one! 😁

Sorry to say, they managed to make it sound like a march.

[ubit]

I think covers should be different from the original anyway. If you are playing to a drunken audience, most folks don't even listen anyway. It's background music. We played at a birthday party once. The electrics were dreadful and my valve amp kept cutting out. I would keep playing and 20 seconds later it would come back in, then same again all through the first set. We came off for a break, totally demoralised and everyone was, wow, that was great! I now know that as long as they can hear a beat, the singing and a semblance of a tune, they are happy. Little details like the bass coming in and out mean nothing to them.

I DI'd for the second set, but we had no monitors, so it was horrible for me.

[ahpook]

If I turned up to an audition and the band approached the covers differently to how I'd learned them, I'd assume that I wasn't the right bassist for the band, not that the band were 'doing it wrong'. I'm not one to tell a bunch of strangers how to run their band.

YMMV of course.

 

[Guest subaudio]

2 minutes ago, ubit said:

I think covers should be different from the original anyway. If you are playing to a drunken audience, most folks don't even listen anyway. It's background music. We played at a birthday party once. The electrics were dreadful and my valve amp kept cutting out. I would keep playing and 20 seconds later it would come back in, then same again all through the first set. We came off for a break, totally demoralised and everyone was, wow, that was great! I now know that as long as they can hear a beat, the singing and a semblance of a tune, they are happy. Little details like the bass coming in and out mean nothing to them.

I DI'd for the second set, but we had no monitors, so it was horrible for me.

Sounds like a nightmare.

Again, I'm totally fine with making good creative choices with covers, I get that.

Not being arsed to learn a tune properly is another thing.

The punters might not notice but I will.

Also the biggest break I ever had came because someone saw me play a small gig to a handful of punters, you never know who is in the audience, who could book you better gigs, more money etc, etc but you have to earn those breaks by doing the work.

[Skinnyman]

14 hours ago, dmccombe7 said:

We record our rehearsals and have started a new keys player attending his first rehearsal with us tomorrow.

We gave him the list of all our songs with keys and what versions. I also gave him a copy of our rehearsals to get the song endings and of course give him an idea of how we sounded. I also gave him my notes on how every song ended (regarded as the bible of notes in our band) 

As much information as possible to allow him to get up to speed as soon as possible with our current set of just 32 songs. 

Dave

I'm currently learning a bunch of songs for an upcoming audition and have (so far) been impressed by the attention to detail. MP3 recordings of the band playing their arrangements, a breakdown of the structure they follow and, in a few cases, the previous bass player's own handwritten tab.

Very professional and making me feel very concerned that I'll be way out of my league!

As far as the original post is concerned, unless it's a tribute band, I don't mind too much if the band changes the arrangement - even the original artists will often change the way they play things - but there is a "minimum standard" that should be achieved if you're going to play it in public and hope that people will pay you to do so.

Rather, my biggest bugbear is learning a particular version of a song to be told "oh, we play such-a-bodies version" or "we do the version from their live album with the extended bridge section".

[Guest subaudio]

3 minutes ago, Skinnyman said:

I'm currently learning a bunch of songs for an upcoming audition and have (so far) been impressed by the attention to detail. MP3 recordings of the band playing their arrangements, a breakdown of the structure they follow and, in a few cases, the previous bass player's own handwritten tab.

Very professional and making me feel very concerned that I'll be way out of my league!

As far as the original post is concerned, unless it's a tribute band, I don't mind too much if the band changes the arrangement - even the original artists will often change the way they play things - but there is a "minimum standard" that should be achieved if you're going to play it in public and hope that people will pay you to do so.

Rather, my biggest bugbear is learning a particular version of a song to be told "oh, we play such-a-bodies version" or "we do the version from their live album with the extended bridge section".

I'm sure you'll nail it mate, always good to play with people a bit above our league I reckon.

 

I think you've got to the crux of this with saying a minimum standard.

I'm all for artistic interpretation but you can't do that if you don't understand the original harmonic and rhythmic structure to a good standard or if you have just downloaded a lyric sheet with basic and often very wrong chords.

[ubit]

I think as long as a band is tight, they can get away with quite a lot. If a band has a good sound and is really tight, little things like playing everything exactly like the original can be forgotten.