Bands that wont learn covers properly.

[12stringbassist]

I helped a band out whose bassist was ill, for a few gigs a couple of years back.
The frustration of dealing with people who really don't give a toss how a song is supposed to go, astonished me.

When the intro of Proud Mary bears no relation to the key of the actual song that follows it, you know that it's ONLY a couple of gigs, then you're free again..

[Ricky 4000]

9 hours ago, Leonard Smalls said:

It's singed me trousers...

Still, the smell of burning has stopped them noticing that the slow break I've put in the middle of our new song (to be debuted in Leominster, 2nd March) is actually  Death Disco...

Great bassline, possibly inspired by Bernard Edwards on "Good Times" from the same year?

I was listening to Metal Box again recently, and playing along with Jah Wobble. PiL were a freaking great band - all of them - and it doesn't sound "old" to me either... it just gets better... 👌

[Bluewine]

On 19/01/2019 at 11:58, musicbassman said:

Yup, come across this many times at auditions.

The worse thing is there's always ONE member of the band  (the guitar widdler or keyboard player) who will take your polite suggestion that their particular choice of chord is.... er... 'unusual'  as a gross personal insult  - so you won't get the gig anyway - you're obviously going to be a threat to their status in the band.  

Contrary to common belief learning and covering songs is not easy. It takes committment, drive, ability and time to do it properly.

This is just my theory , I think people with strong backgrounds in originals resist learning covers because they feel it's beneath them. I'm sorry but in actuality it's because they probably don't have what it takes to learn a cover properly.

What's so frustrating is there are tons of good bass and guitar YouTube tutorials showing you exactly how to play a song from start to end.

I have first hand experience with folks that absolutely refuse to learn covers properly. And they all have a million poor excuses. The real reason is, they don't want to put in the work required.

 

Sorry for the rant, but this is a " hot button" topic for me.

Blue

Edited February 4, 2019 by Bluewine

[JapanAxe]

I spend a lot of time transcribing bass and guitar parts for songs I'm going to cover. Some may view this as 'not creative', but it helps me learn things I would not have thought to do otherwise. I won't always stick note-for-note to the transcription when it comes time to play, but at least I have started in the right place!

Having said that, I am fine with people doing in a completely different and off-the-wall way, but please, spare me from sloppy covers.

[Bluewine]

3 hours ago, 12stringbassist said:

I helped a band out whose bassist was ill, for a few gigs a couple of years back.
The frustration of dealing with people who really don't give a toss how a song is supposed to go, astonished me.

When the intro of Proud Mary bears no relation to the key of the actual song that follows it, you know that it's ONLY a couple of gigs, then you're free again..

It's one thing if they don't have the chops or ability to cover a song, but when they have the ability but aren't willing to do it, that's frustrating.

Blue

[Bluewine]

3 minutes ago, JapanAxe said:

I spend a lot of time transcribing bass and guitar parts for songs I'm going to cover. Some may view this as 'not creative', but it helps me learn things I would not have thought to do otherwise. I won't always stick note-for-note to the transcription when it comes time to play, but at least I have started in the right place!

Having said that, I am fine with people doing in a completely different and off-the-wall way, but please, spare me from sloppy covers.

Exactly, it's not about playing it exactly like the original recording. It's about taking the time to understand the song and learning it properly. What a band wants to do with it after that is fine.

Blue

[gjones]

On 20/01/2019 at 09:30, ubit said:

I think covers should be different from the original anyway. If you are playing to a drunken audience, most folks don't even listen anyway. It's background music. We played at a birthday party once. The electrics were dreadful and my valve amp kept cutting out. I would keep playing and 20 seconds later it would come back in, then same again all through the first set. We came off for a break, totally demoralised and everyone was, wow, that was great! I now know that as long as they can hear a beat, the singing and a semblance of a tune, they are happy. Little details like the bass coming in and out mean nothing to them.

I DI'd for the second set, but we had no monitors, so it was horrible for me.

Like throwing pearls to swine, pearls to swine 😱

[gjones]

Watching the videos, I've noticed, that Gail Ann Dorsey didn't always play the exact basslines of many of the songs she played live with Bowie. He didn't seem to care.

[Bluewine]

25 minutes ago, gjones said:

Watching the videos, I've noticed, that Gail Ann Dorsey didn't always play the exact basslines of many of the songs she played live with Bowie. He didn't seem to care.

I'm not sure that's the point. 

My point is calling out those that are too lazy to learn a cover properly.

I'm sure Gail can play Bowie's catalog inside out and anyway she wants. 

Blue

Edited February 4, 2019 by Bluewine

[dmccombe7]

1 hour ago, JapanAxe said:

I spend a lot of time transcribing bass and guitar parts for songs I'm going to cover. Some may view this as 'not creative', but it helps me learn things I would not have thought to do otherwise. I won't always stick note-for-note to the transcription when it comes time to play, but at least I have started in the right place!

Having said that, I am fine with people doing in a completely different and off-the-wall way, but please, spare me from sloppy covers.

That's exactly what i do for the bass parts i need to learn.

Dave

[Muzz]

There's also the point that the band will sometimes need to change the arrangement of a cover to take into account the lineup of the band; we're a trio of guitar, drums and bass, but as an example we do Daft Punk's Get Lucky. There's no way we can play the song as recorded, so we change it. The parts change, but the groove remains... 😉 

[EddiePlaysBass]

I just spent about an hour getting the bass line down for Jace Everett's Bad Things. Don't have all the details but more than enough to actually get all the different parts as opposed to faking just the main riffs. So I texted the guitarist and told him that he's free to do whatever, provided he respects the number of measures 😄

[Woodinblack]

3 hours ago, Bluewine said:

What's so frustrating is there are tons of good bass and guitar YouTube tutorials showing you exactly how to play a song from start to end.

It has to be said that for songs where there are a ton of tutorials, at least 3/4 of a ton of them are wrong!

3 hours ago, JapanAxe said:

I won't always stick note-for-note to the transcription when it comes time to play, but at least I have started in the right place!

That is what I tend to do, learn what is right and then decide how I am going to play it, armed with what I know about it

[Bluewine]

5 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

It has to be said that for songs where there are a ton of tutorials, at least 3/4 of a ton of them are wrong!

 

All it takes is one good one.

Blue

[Dad3353]

2 hours ago, Bluewine said:

All it takes is one good one...

... and the wherewith all to know which one that is. 

[ubit]

Listen to any professional cover. Very, very rarely will they be complete copies of the original. People seem to be missing the point about putting your own mark on a song. As I said before, not doing a copy does not necessarily mean you are lazy or inept. 😉

[Dad3353]

It should not be forgotten that there are lazy and/or inept original artists, too. I have a (long...) list... 

[ubit]

I learn bass parts as best I can. As I am also the lead singer plus admitting to not being up to Geddy Lee’s or Mark Kings ability, I have to simplify some bass lines in order to be able to carry out both duties. I have never found anyone saying “ that’s rubbish, you didn’t play that bass line note for note”. As I said in an earlier post, I think some people attach too much importance in their role in the band. Yes, we all take pride and realise that the bass is the rock on which the song is built, but most bar punters won’t share this view. I appreciate some of you are playing at a higher level than the nags head and will want to have a better professional attitude, but I’m surmising the o.p. is talking about pub bands when referring to covers. 

Its quite annoying how little the punters actually listen to the work you have put into your music. 

[Muzz]

1 hour ago, ubit said:

Its quite annoying how little the punters actually listen to the work you have put into your music. 

Only in certain areas: if it's all virtuoso noodly stuff then no, the returns in punter appreciation are likely to be sparse outside of the odd muso in the audience, but if the work has gone into making the band very very tight and gets the punters up and dancing/singing/engaged, then they'll appreciate it. IMHO, IME, etc, etc...

Edited February 5, 2019 by Muzz

[ubit]

4 hours ago, Muzz said:

if the work has gone into making the band very very tight and gets the punters up and dancing/singing/engaged, then they'll appreciate it. IMHO, IME, etc, etc...

This goes back to my earlier post about the night when , due to bad electrics, my valve amp kept cutting out for twenty seconds, then back on for twenty seconds etc. No one apart from me noticed and I include my own band mates. In fact when we took our break, we were congratulated on such a blistering set and even procured another gig. Drunk folk only need the beat, the singing and something like a melody. I was shocked ! 

 

 

Edit. I don’t disagree with you, I’m merely stating a sad fact 

Edited February 5, 2019 by ubit

[steantval]

15 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

It has to be said that for songs where there are a ton of tutorials, at least 3/4 of a ton of them are wrong!

That is what I tend to do, learn what is right and then decide how I am going to play it, armed with what I know about it

Right about the YouTube stuff, just out of interest I banged in Wishing Well by Free and some guys on there are playing the main riff in a weird position at the top of the neck with lots of open strings, the correct positioning is around the 5th and 7th frets etc.

Edited February 5, 2019 by steantval

[dmccombe7]

36 minutes ago, ubit said:

This goes back to my earlier post about the night when , due to bad electrics, my valve amp kept cutting out for twenty seconds, then back on for twenty seconds etc. No one apart from me noticed and I include my own band mates. In fact when we took our break, we were congratulated on such a blistering set and even procured another gig. Drunk folk only need the beat, the singing and something like a melody. I was shocked ! 

 

 

Edit. I don’t disagree with you, I’m mearly stating a sad fact 

I could see that being the case based on some audiences i've seen. Most of my gigs have been at venues that want to see the band i'm with at the time but i've played or depped in the occasional caravan park gig and people are there to get drunk and just dance and have a bit of party fun. They generally aren't muso's and the band is just a live jukebox was my opinion. It really wasn't my kind of gig and i didn't stay with the band. I couldn't get used to very young kids dancing and running around the dance floor in front of me. Coming from a Heavy Rock background it was quite a surprise  Think this was discussed on a recent thread that was very interesting too and it really depends on the type of gig and type of music you play. Rock fans tend to enjoy most rock bands if they are generally good even more so if they have a bit of charisma about them. Same with tribute bands as most of the audience will be there because they enjoy the original band. 

23 minutes ago, steantval said:

Right about the YouTube stuff, just out of interest I banged in Wishing Well by Free and some guys on there are playing the main riff in a weird position at the top of the neck with lots of open strings, the correct positioning is around the 5th and 7th frets etc.

Used to do the Gary Moore one few yrs ago and if i remember right that was around the 5th and 7th fret too.

Maybe it was just easeir for them to play it higher up the neck. ? 

Dave

[ubit]

4 hours ago, Muzz said:

Only in certain areas: if it's all virtuoso noodly stuff then no, the returns in punter appreciation are likely to be sparse outside of the odd muso in the audience, but if the work has gone into making the band very very tight and gets the punters up and dancing/singing/engaged, then they'll appreciate it. IMHO, IME, etc, etc...

Mrs Ubits youngest brother is an absolute virtuoso on the guitar. He plays all over the world at events with his duo “Wingin’ it” They are widely regarded as being top of their game. He used to play with another great guitarist who is currently playing lead for the band Coast. One night they were in a local pub playing their insanely accurate and technical sets, when some local girls came in and exclaimed “ oh no, not them again”   It was laughable as they were hands down the best musicians around. 

Other bands play whisky in the jar or Brown eyed girl and they get roars of applause!

[Monkey Steve]

3 minutes ago, ubit said:

Mrs Ubits youngest brother is an absolute virtuoso on the guitar. He plays all over the world at events with his duo “Wingin’ it” They are widely regarded as being top of their game. He used to play with another great guitarist who is currently playing lead for the band Coast. One night they were in a local pub playing their insanely accurate and technical sets, when some local girls came in and exclaimed “ oh no, not them again”   It was laughable as they were hands down the best musicians around. 

Other bands play whisky in the jar or Brown eyed girl and they get roars of applause!

I would suggest that the criticism of the local girls isn't that they are poor musicians, but that the band is playing music that the girls don't enjoy.  Perhaps if they played a virtuoso version of Brown Eyed Girl everybody would appreciate that they're better than the usual bands who do it

[dmccombe7]

8 minutes ago, Monkey Steve said:

I would suggest that the criticism of the local girls isn't that they are poor musicians, but that the band is playing music that the girls don't enjoy.  Perhaps if they played a virtuoso version of Brown Eyed Girl everybody would appreciate that they're better than the usual bands who do it

Or they played something by Take That or some similar BOY band they would have stayed to listen but then again that wouldn't exactly be a challenging prospect for any musician