Bands that wont learn covers properly.

[ubit]

We were told way back , by a wise old musician, that you have to play what the people want. We said, no, we will play the music we want to do. We tried originals and obscure covers and eventually started playing music by numbers and guess what? He was right. Doesn’t matter if it’s note  for note perfect , as long as they know it, they will dance and more importantly, pay. 

[Leonard Smalls]

4 minutes ago, ubit said:

We were told way back , by a wise old musician, that you have to play what the people want.

As another Wise Old Musician said:

Give the people what they want when they want then they wants it all the time 

Fortunately, he played his own music, so now we have PFunk… Which some of the people wanted, even if they didn't necessarily know it at the time.

But if every single musician only played other people's music there'd never be anything new!

And one of the venues we play at takes a very dim view of covers - he'll let you do one. Any more and you're out!

 

 

 

[Ricky 4000]

An even wiser man once said: Give the people what they want, not what they think they want.

[ubit]

2 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said:

 

But if every single musician only played other people's music there'd never be anything new!

And one of the venues we play at takes a very dim view of covers - he'll let you do one. Any more and you're out!

 

 

 

I can only speak from a personal viewpoint in regards towards my own area and experiences. Round here you don’t get away with original material. Down in the city, it’s the opposite. 

[dmccombe7]

20 hours ago, Monkey Steve said:

So you’re saying they played it wrong?  I refer you to the topic heading...

No i'm saying the girls would have probably enjoyed something from a band they recognised from the pop charts.

[dmccombe7]

5 hours ago, ubit said:

They did other more contemporary tunes I should add. They had a definite fan base , but the hard drinking, anthem singing, less discerning listeners were just not ready for it

Who were they just in case i know them 

[dmccombe7]

If you choose your gigs carefully you can target your music to an audience that wants to hear that style of music.

Play Rock music in Rock venues. Punk music in punk venues, Blues in blues venues etc.

In the more common venues they just want to hear a band play well known songs. That would be your Friday night pub gigs as mentioned before. It doesn't have to be perfect just good.

Its horses for courses again.

Dave

[ubit]

39 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Who were they just in case i know them 

They were called The Designer Shoes. Later shortened to The Shoes 

 

The other one ( Not Mrs Ubits brother ) is playing lead guitar on this. I don’t think he cares much that some drunk girls didn’t like his type of music!

 

 

Edited February 6, 2019 by ubit

[dmccombe7]

I quite liked that. 

[ubit]

2 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

I quite liked that. 

Great song. Influenced by the book “ a higher call” true story and a great read. 

 

 

Sorry to digress on the thread. Sometimes I like how conversations develop right enough. 

[Deanol]

18 hours ago, Leonard Smalls said:

I've never been willing to play material I don't like. If I liked the music that's generally popular I'd no doubt be happy to play it in order to play to crowds of happy punters...

However, I've always liked left-field music starting with the early no-wave scene, through free jazz, obscure funk, unheard of prog-fusion etc. We could attempt covers of some of this ephemera, and 90% of folks would think it our own (and probably hate it!). So covers for me are rare - this is also because I like to make my own music; I get far more enjoyment out of writing in collaboration with the band than working out someone else's song.

I had a conversation a while ago with a well-known (in the scene, at least!) free-jazz drummer. He was the original drummer with Bon Jovi, and left because he wanted more music and less crowd-pleasing - he said (in his Brooklyn accent!) "the music's in me, man, it's just gotta come out! I don't care about what the audience want, I've just gotta play!". And strangely, I know exactly where he's coming from. It means that, even though he's the best drummer I've ever played with  - by a long way - he'll never get rich doing it. He does occasional sessions for pop bands, even played drums for Chuck Berry once, teaches drumming in a local college, but all that's to pay the bills. He spends the majority of his time playing with obscure jazzers to a few chin-strokers in a back-room in Hebden Bridge. For just a few quid...

Which is exactly how it should be!

He decided he didn't want to play the music demanded by one audience, so he went out to find an audience who liked the same material as he enjoyed playing. Result, happy musician, happy audience.

What annoys me is when musicians hate the music that their audience wants to hear, and yet they are unwilling to go an find a different audience, so the musician ends up calling the audience Philistines, and musically uneducated, and less discerning listeners.

Go out and find a different audience. If you can't be bothered, then you are at fault, not the audience.

[Monkey Steve]

15 hours ago, Leonard Smalls said:

 

And one of the venues we play at takes a very dim view of covers - he'll let you do one. Any more and you're out!

 

 

 

I’ve played a couple of venues like that, though not for a few years.  The explanation I got at the time was that they didn’t want the hassle of filling out a report for PRS, they just wanted to tick the box that said we played all our own material.  They’d lay down the law before we went on stage - no covers, alright? If you’re going to play one then you definitely didn’t tell us about it! Definitely don’t play two 

[Leonard Smalls]

8 minutes ago, Monkey Steve said:

The explanation I got at the time was that they didn’t want the hassle of filling out a report for PRS,

The reason in this case is the owner only wants originals bands, as a result the venue has punk/rock/metal/hiphop bands from all over the world playing at his venue - and it's always free to get in. He feels that out in the wilds of Shropshire there are very few places to play or hear original music...

[ubit]

27 minutes ago, Deanol said:

What annoys me is when musicians hate the music that their audience wants to hear, and yet they are unwilling to go an find a different audience, so the musician ends up calling the audience Philistines, and musically uneducated, and less discerning listeners.

You are lucky you can pick and choose your venues to play in. We have no choice. The venues that have live music are frequented by pretty much the same people. 

 

 

Plus, can you not tell a tongue in cheek comment? 

Edited February 7, 2019 by ubit

[Monkey Steve]

34 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said:

The reason in this case is the owner only wants originals bands, as a result the venue has punk/rock/metal/hiphop bands from all over the world playing at his venue - and it's always free to get in. He feels that out in the wilds of Shropshire there are very few places to play or hear original music...

That was the implication of the places we played - they simply didn’t entertain the idea of putting on a covers band

[lowregisterhead]

14 hours ago, ubit said:

The other one ( Not Mrs Ubits brother ) is playing lead guitar on this. I don’t think he cares much that some drunk girls didn’t like his type of music!

I know the man, I've worked with him. He is exacting and uncompromising, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It won't always win you friends, but sometimes you have to be true to yourself regardless. The whole album that track is from is great, but sadly I suspect it'll never get anywhere.

[ubit]

2 hours ago, lowregisterhead said:

I know the man, I've worked with him. He is exacting and uncompromising, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It won't always win you friends, but sometimes you have to be true to yourself regardless. The whole album that track is from is great, but sadly I suspect it'll never get anywhere.

We used to cover Oceanos by Coast and yes, we played it note for note true to the original. It used to go down well. 

[Guest subaudio]

Here's an interesting video that echoes my original post about the importance of developing your ears and questioning why seemingly so many "musicians" choose to ignore it's importance.

The video is centred on The Real Book, but much of it is applicable to my point.

This guy has loads of really great videos about how music functions.

Highly recommended.

 

[Deanol]

3 hours ago, ubit said:

You are lucky you can pick and choose your venues to play in. We have no choice. The venues that have live music are frequented by pretty much the same people. 

 

 

Plus, can you not tell a tongue in cheek comment? 

I never did get to pick my audience. But the audience and I both enjoyed the same kind of music. If I hated it though, I would have either not played it, or played it with good grace. I wouldn't have abused the audience because I was playing music they liked and I didn't. The musician is at fault for hating the audience simply because he hates the music he has to play.

I don't buy the argument about not being able to pick and choose venues. Yes you can. You can move to somewhere with venues that will allow you to play your style of music. You can join an originals band who play your style of music. You can stop playing.

One has at least three options if one's musical taste is so refined that playing other styles of music makes you feel demeaned. Or does it not demean people enough that they want to stop playing? It is only demeaning to a certain point, which will allow one to offend the audience, but not quite enough to do anything about it.

Which was the tongue in cheek comment? Seeing as I have to ask you to point it out, then it would appear that the answer to your question is "no".

[Muzz]

37 minutes ago, subaudio said:

Here's an interesting video that echoes my original post about the importance of developing your ears and questioning why seemingly so many "musicians" choose to ignore it's importance.

The video is centred on The Real Book, but much of it is applicable to my point.

This guy has loads of really great videos about how music functions.

Highly recommended.

 

There's a book of jazz standards? Nominally interesting, but completely irrelevant to my music and playing...

[ubit]

2 hours ago, Deanol said:

 

6 hours ago, ubit said:

You are lucky you can pick and choose your venues to play in. We have no choice. The venues that have live music are frequented by pretty much the same people. 

 

 

Plus, can you not tell a tongue in cheek comment? 

I never 

I don't buy the argument about not being able to pick and choose venues. Yes you can. You can move to somewhere with venues that will allow you to play your style of music. You can join an originals band who play your style of music. You can stop playing.

 

So not only have you the ability to pick and choose your venues to play in, you are wealthy enough to move  on a  whim to somewhere else where they like your music. It must be super to be you. 

[solo4652]

I play in a pub covers band. At our very first jam/tryout session, the lead guitarist - who is a very talented prog rocker/Yngve Malmsteen admirer -  said: "I'd like to join, but I want to be challenged". I commented that perhaps a pub covers band wouldn't "challenge" him. Two years later, the band is still trying to play together as a unit, picking up 4 or 5 gigs a year, while congratulating itself on the high level of musicianship; "We play the songs better than nearly all the other local covers bands. Can't really understand why we don't get gigs" I'm the main gig-hunter. I despair.The guitarist insists on playing mega-widdly solos to just about every song. We play Kiss (the song, not the band), and he goes off on a prog-rock solo. I despair. Why does he do this? Because learning the guitar parts to cover songs like Oasis doesn't "challenge" him, and he sees it as beneath him. Similar story with our drummer who, whenever he can, plays double-kick bass to funk and soul songs. I despair. These people are completely capable of learning their parts to cover songs but they don't, because they see that as uninteresting and somewhat beneath them. Interestingly, both of these people arrived at the band having just left originals bands. I'm not sure whether that's relevant, but I suspect it is.

Edited February 7, 2019 by solo4652

[Deanol]

25 minutes ago, ubit said:

So not only have you the ability to pick and choose your venues to play in, you are wealthy enough to move  on a  whim to somewhere else where they like your music. It must be super to be you. 

But the alternative is to sneer at the people who are less discerning listeners.

I would rather not play than do that.

[Muzz]

11 minutes ago, solo4652 said:

I play in a pub covers band. At our very first jam/tryout session, the lead guitarist - who is a very talented prog rocker/Yngve Malmsteen admirer -  said: "I'd like to join, but I want to be challenged". I commented that perhaps a pub covers band wouldn't "challenge" him. Two years later, the band is still trying to play together as a unit. The guitarist insists on playing mega-widdly solos to just about every song. We play Kiss (the song, not the band), and he goes off on a prog-rock solo. I despair. Why does he do this? Because learning the guitar parts to cover songs like Oasis doesn't "challenge" him, and he sees it as beneath him. Similar story with our drummer who, whenever he can, plays double-kick bass to funk and soul songs. I despair. These people are completely capable of learning their parts to cover songs but they don't, because they see that as uninteresting and somewhat beneath them. Interestingly, both of these people arrived at the band having just left originals bands. I'm not sure whether that's relevant, but I suspect it is.

They're just rubbish at what they do. When I moved into a function/covers band with a wide range of styles and genres, the challenge was (and still is, which is one reason I love doing it) to play outside your comfort zone and make a completely different style work. All they're doing is shoehorning what they already know into songs where it doesn't work, because they're scared to play something they're not comfortable with...

The best dep guitarist I've ever played with could switch from genre to genre, and every one sounded authentic; the tones, the feel, the way he played. He was a chameleon (not the band, tho they are from round here) : you would never know what his favourite genre was just by listening to and watching him play.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Muzz

[solo4652]

18 minutes ago, Muzz said:

They're just rubbish at what they do. When I moved into a function/covers band with a wide range of styles and genres, the challenge is to play outside your comfort zone and make a completely different style work. All they're doing is shoehorning what they know into songs where it doesn't work, because they're scared to play something they're not comfortable with...

Agreed. They're not very good at playing in a pub covers band. I'm definitely the least musically talented/technically capable person in the band. I've enjoyed learning basslines to reggae, soul, funk, soft-rock, pop, indie, and country songs. I'm sure that I don't play the bassline exactly as per the original on any song, but what I do play works well enough for where we play, and what I play fits the vibe of the original song. In my experience of covers bands, that's a where many people lose the plot - they don't learn their parts because they're more interested in playing their instruments than playing the song. When our lead guitarist reins himself in, he can play very tasteful licks and solos, and the result is sublime. But he's bored  by that.

Edited February 7, 2019 by solo4652