Bands that wont learn covers properly.

[Bluewine]

12 hours ago, ubit said:

Listen to any professional cover. Very, very rarely will they be complete copies of the original. People seem to be missing the point about putting your own mark on a song. As I said before, not doing a copy does not necessarily mean you are lazy or inept. 😉

I think we're talking about 2 different issues.

 

I'm talking about those not willing to put the effort and work into learning a song. That's lazy in my book.

Blue

[Bluewine]

8 hours ago, ubit said:

I learn bass parts as best I can. As I am also the lead singer plus admitting to not being up to Geddy Lee’s or Mark Kings ability, I have to simplify some bass lines in order to be able to carry out both duties. I have never found anyone saying “ that’s rubbish, you didn’t play that bass line note for note”. As I said in an earlier post, I think some people attach too much importance in their role in the band. Yes, we all take pride and realise that the bass is the rock on which the song is built, but most bar punters won’t share this view. I appreciate some of you are playing at a higher level than the nags head and will want to have a better professional attitude, but I’m surmising the o.p. is talking about pub bands when referring to covers. 

Its quite annoying how little the punters actually listen to the work you have put into your music. 

Knowing a song and simplifying it is fine.

I'm talking about and I think the OP is too, arriving to a rehearsal and no one has bothered to learn their parts.

Blue

[Monkey Steve]

4 hours ago, dmccombe7 said:

Or they played something by Take That or some similar BOY band they would have stayed to listen but then again that wouldn't exactly be a challenging prospect for any musician 

So you’re saying they played it wrong?  I refer you to the topic heading...

[Monkey Steve]

1 hour ago, Bluewine said:

I think we're talking about 2 different issues.

 

I'm talking about those not willing to put the effort and work into learning a song. That's lazy in my book.

Blue

Yes. There a difference between knowing the song, understanding the structure, where the gaps are that you can fill or play differently, or taking it in a different direction, and simply not bothering to learn it properly because all the audience only recognises the chorus and they won’t spot that the chords  under it are different.  Specifically there’s a difference between getting it wrong and choosing to make a change of artistic reasons

[ubit]

12 hours ago, Monkey Steve said:

I would suggest that the criticism of the local girls isn't that they are poor musicians, but that the band is playing music that the girls don't enjoy.  Perhaps if they played a virtuoso version of Brown Eyed Girl everybody would appreciate that they're better than the usual bands who do it

The criticism was because they were Philistines plain and simple. The afore mentioned group of girls wouldn’t know a decent musician if he was in their vodka and cranberry 😉

[Dad3353]

1 hour ago, ubit said:

...he was in their vodka and cranberry 😉

Now there's a euphemism worth noting..! 

[ubit]

Years ago, when we first started, we used to play support to another band that was more established than us and certainly their  guitarist was better than ours but we regularly blew them off the stage purely because we played fun songs, never took ourselves too seriously and clearly enjoyed ourselves onstage. 

Sometimes being very good technically can go against you, especially in Scotland and I suspect The rest of the U.K. too. We love to knock down folks who are too big in it and too far up their own derrière. Another sad but true fact. 

Edited February 6, 2019 by ubit

[PaulWarning]

5 minutes ago, ubit said:

Years ago, when we first started, we used to play support to another band that was more established than us and certainly their  guitarist was better than ours but we regularly blew them off the stage purely because we played fun songs, never took ourselves too seriously and clearly enjoyed ourselves onstage. 

Sometimes being very good technically can go against you, especially in Scotland and I suspect The rest of the U.K. too. We love to knock down folks who are too big in it and too far up their own derrière. Another sad but true fact. 

indeed, the audience is less likely enjoy the show if the band don't look like you're enjoying themselves 

[ubit]

1 minute ago, PaulWarning said:

indeed, the audience is less likely enjoy the show if the band don't look like you're enjoying themselves 

Definitely. I have always been paranoid about looking miserable on stage. In our latest band, we have an acoustic guitar player who looks like he has just found out he’s adopted. Loads of people comment and we have tried to say “ for flip sake smile” but to no avail. 

[Deanol]

   

By Christ there's some pretentious musos on this site! From some of the posts it would seem some people don't actually want an audience, or if they do have to suffer the indignity of playing to actaul people, they want the audience to consist of people who sit around in silence listening closely to every note, nodding in appreciation. The band of course will not play anything "popular" - oh no, that would be pandering to uneducated, stupid Philistines - but will play an entire set consisting of obscure tracks, such as "Speed Metal By Logarithms" from obscure album, such as "Inverted Snobs" by obscure Norwegian bands.

I am a musician. I played in bands for thirty years, and I hated that kind of snobbery. I would much rather play music people know, and will get up and dance to. Of course nobody is going to listen to obscure music, no matter how well played, in a pub in a market town on a Friday night! They want stuff they know and can enjoy after a long week at work. They want music they can dance to, sing along to the choruses, and get off with the opposite sex to!

Does it have to be note perfect? No. Of course it doesn't. It simply has to be recognisable to the audience.

If you object to playing that kind of music in pubs on Friday nights, then I suspect you are in the wrong game.

[ubit]

12 minutes ago, Deanol said:

they want the audience to consist of people who sit around in silence listening closely to every note, nodding in appreciation. The band of course will not play anything "popular" - oh no, that would be pandering to uneducated, stupid Philistines - but will play an entire set consisting of obscure tracks, 

I agree with this point , but I was referring to a band that could knock spots off more or less any other band musically. Most people, even drunks, could appreciate their musicianship. It was just the fact that these girls came in and quite openly showed their disdain. The band just laughed, as they clearly heard it. Some people can’t appreciate well played music. It has to be doof, doof, doof. 

Im in the somewhere in between camp. I want to play great, complicated songs, but I realise that simple, well known play by numbers songs, get the audience going. 

[ubit]

I should add that they used to play the Blue Peter theme very fast. Technically incredible, but who the hell wants to hear that on a Saturday night in the pub? 

[PaulWarning]

I always say to the band when someone suggests doing something a bit obscure "Nobody will know it so we may as well do one of our own songs"

[ubit]

15 hours ago, Bluewine said:

Knowing a song and simplifying it is fine.

I'm talking about and I think the OP is too, arriving to a rehearsal and no one has bothered to learn their parts.

Blue

That is just out of order mate. I alluded already to my mate who would deliberately not learn his parts because he didn’t want to do the song. Passive aggressive. 

You at least need to know the gist of a song before unleashing it on the baying masses. I stand by my opinion, it doesn’t have to be exact, but neither should it be unrecognisable. 

[Deanol]

35 minutes ago, ubit said:

I should add that they used to play the Blue Peter theme very fast. Technically incredible, but who the hell wants to hear that on a Saturday night in the pub? 

Very few. I would guess a few students and others who consider themselves to be intellectuals would enjoy it ironically. But most Friday Night Pub People (I'm going to trademark that phrase) would not think it was particularly clever.

Perhaps playing the Blue Peter theme very fast is why those girls didn't greet the band with enthusiasm!

[ubit]

12 minutes ago, Deanol said:

 

Perhaps playing the Blue Peter theme very fast is why those girls didn't greet the band with enthusiasm!

They did other more contemporary tunes I should add. They had a definite fan base , but the hard drinking, anthem singing, less discerning listeners were just not ready for it

Edited February 6, 2019 by ubit

[Deanol]

Did they give off a vibe that they were perhaps playing to...

6 minutes ago, ubit said:

less discerning listeners

Because if they did, then that would be an explanation why they were not liked.

That phrase, right there, is the problem. The snobbish attitude to people who don't like anything obscure is because they are "less discerning listeners". Turn it around and it becomes that the Friday Night Pub People don't like the music being played because the band are "up themselves, arrogant show-offs".

[ubit]

I’m maybe not describing the said clientele properly . I am in no way a musical snob, but I’m a music lover. When I say less discerning listeners , I refer to people who have absolutely no clue about music. How it works, what’s involved with making a good sound, the time and effort required to reach a standard and who are happy with hearing “ Wagon wheel” for the hundredth time because they know it. 

Mrs Ubits brother is also not a musical snob. He is a prodigy that just loves to play. His ex bandmate, however is definitely a musical snob and would look on with disdain at those type of people and think of them as being beneath him. 

[ubit]

12 minutes ago, Deanol said:

23 minutes ago, ubit said:

 

Because if they did, then that would be an explanation why they were not liked

They had a definite fan base 

[KevB]

I always make a point of thanking the band after a gig if they play a song I like that few other bands play and they make a good job of it. It doesn't take much effort on my part.

[Deanol]

Just now, ubit said:

They had a definite fan base 

In that pub where the girls made it clear they were not liked? Or somewhere else?

If they were in the pub with the girls, what proportion of the audience constitued their fan base? Over 90%? Under 10% (made up of students in a local pub)?

 

5 minutes ago, ubit said:

I’m maybe not describing the said clientele properly . I am in no way a musical snob, but I’m a music lover. When I say less discerning listeners , I refer to people who have absolutely no clue about music. How it works, what’s involved with making a good sound, the time and effort required to reach a standard and who are happy with hearing “ Wagon wheel” for the hundredth time because they know it. 

Mrs Ubits brother is also not a musical snob. He is a prodigy that just loves to play. His ex bandmate, however is definitely a musical snob and would look on with disdain at those type of people and think of them as being beneath him. 

Was this ex bandmate in the band so disdaned by the girls? If so, again it is no wonder they were disliked. Yes you say they had a fanbase, but how many took the view that the girls were right out of the whole audience?

In your first paragraph above, in my day we used to call such people "the audience". We respected them and enjoyed playing music for them to dance to and sing along to. They paid our wages. We might not have been able to play "Imaginary Number Music" by that well known Norwegian band "Death Blood Ice and Snow" but we did cop off quite frequently with the lasses.

[ubit]

Just now, KevB said:

I always make a point of thanking the band after a gig if they play a song I like that few other bands play and they make a good job of it. It doesn't take much effort on my part.

I do too mate 👍

[ubit]

2 minutes ago, Deanol said:

In that pub where the girls made it clear they were not liked? Or somewhere else?

If they were in the pub with the girls, what proportion of the audience constitued their fan base? Over 90%? Under 10% (made up of students in a local pub)?

 

Was this ex bandmate in the band so disdaned by the girls? If so, again it is no wonder they were disliked. Yes you say they had a fanbase, but how many took the view that the girls were right out of the whole audience?

In your first paragraph above, in my day we used to call such people "the audience". We respected them and enjoyed playing music for them to dance to and sing along to. They paid our wages. We might not have been able to play "Imaginary Number Music" by that well known Norwegian band "Death Blood Ice and Snow" but we did cop off quite frequently with the lasses.

He was and still is, a very well known local celebrity. Liked by many people , but my point was that audiences from drinky pubs won’t appreciate music that is technically amazing if it doesn’t have the commerciallity that they crave. 

 

We used to play material we hated because we knew it would get a better reaction. I didn’t do badly with the admiring dancers myself to be fair. There’s always a silver lining when you sell your soul. 😉

[Deanol]

37 minutes ago, ubit said:

He was and still is, a very well known local celebrity. Liked by many people , but my point was that audiences from drinky pubs won’t appreciate music that is technically amazing if it doesn’t have the commerciallity that they crave. 

 

We used to play material we hated because we knew it would get a better reaction. I didn’t do badly with the admiring dancers myself to be fair. There’s always a silver lining when you sell your soul. 😉

I suppose that's the difference. I never hated that sort of material. I enjoyed listening to it. Even now I can still enjoy "Hi-Ho Silver Lining" even though I played it at the end of virtually every Friday and Saturday night set in the pubs and club of South Yorkshire, Derbyshire, North Nottinghamshire, and North Lincolnshire for decades.

[Leonard Smalls]

48 minutes ago, ubit said:

We used to play material we hated because we knew it would get a better reaction. I didn’t do badly with the admiring dancers myself to be fair. There’s always a silver lining when you sell your soul. 😉

I've never been willing to play material I don't like. If I liked the music that's generally popular I'd no doubt be happy to play it in order to play to crowds of happy punters...

However, I've always liked left-field music starting with the early no-wave scene, through free jazz, obscure funk, unheard of prog-fusion etc. We could attempt covers of some of this ephemera, and 90% of folks would think it our own (and probably hate it!). So covers for me are rare - this is also because I like to make my own music; I get far more enjoyment out of writing in collaboration with the band than working out someone else's song.

I had a conversation a while ago with a well-known (in the scene, at least!) free-jazz drummer. He was the original drummer with Bon Jovi, and left because he wanted more music and less crowd-pleasing - he said (in his Brooklyn accent!) "the music's in me, man, it's just gotta come out! I don't care about what the audience want, I've just gotta play!". And strangely, I know exactly where he's coming from. It means that, even though he's the best drummer I've ever played with  - by a long way - he'll never get rich doing it. He does occasional sessions for pop bands, even played drums for Chuck Berry once, teaches drumming in a local college, but all that's to pay the bills. He spends the majority of his time playing with obscure jazzers to a few chin-strokers in a back-room in Hebden Bridge. For just a few quid...