Bands that wont learn covers properly.

[Leonard Smalls]

Having been brought up by a piano-teaching mother I was dragged out to classical concerts from an early age...

There, it was my misfortune to behold those front-row sitters with pinched faces and pursed lips who all clutched their Edition Peters version of the score. And rather than listen to and enjoy the music they'd slavishly follow the dots on the page, and they'd tut and point and give off a general air of "there's been a murder!" if what was played was just forte instead of fortissimo, or woe-betide if a different note or minor rhythm change occurred! Meanwhile, the rest of the crowd who were equally divided between those who loved music and just wanted to hear it played well, and those who liked to dress up and say "I go to classical concerts, doncha know!", sat back and enjoyed it to various degrees...

So now, if I go into a pub and see a band play I think:

1. Does it groove?

2. Do I like it?

3. Do I know the song?

If it's a slavish attempt to reproduce a song I don't like - frinstance most of the "popular" covers repertoire - even if it's done well I'll whinge or go somewhere else. If I like the song I'll be relatively happy. But to be really happy when someone's doing a cover I want different; I want to not quite know what it is until at least the chorus. I want to think "These guys are doing that slightly annoying Floyd song in the way it should have been done in the first place!".

However, I realise that the majority of punters aren't chip-on-the-shoulder muso-snobs like me, and that the most folks just want to hear a song they already know so they can feel at one with the crowd in their shared knowledge, pointing in the air and shouting at each other's faces until they knock the PA over.

And I'll be sat in the corner, bitter and nursing a pint, muttering.

 

 

[ubit]

I would rather go into a bar and see a crap band playing badly than hear a bloody disco!

[dave_bass5]

i have a big issue with my lot (and the previous lot) not learning the same version. We like to scour YT etc and see alternative versions of some songs. Nothing drastic different, but different none the less.

Ever fallen in love by the Stiff Dylans for example. We get to rehearsals and half of them have just gone by the original. 'its more or less the same innit?'. This  happens a lot and gets very frustrating. 

[dmccombe7]

1 hour ago, dave_bass5 said:

i have a big issue with my lot (and the previous lot) not learning the same version. We like to scour YT etc and see alternative versions of some songs. Nothing drastic different, but different none the less.

Ever fallen in love by the Stiff Dylans for example. We get to rehearsals and half of them have just gone by the original. 'its more or less the same innit?'. This  happens a lot and gets very frustrating. 

Someone needs to lead the band and tell them what version. Take the lead Dave and dictate to them see how you get on. 

Otherwise the person suggesting a new song dictates what version.

Dave

[Monkey Steve]

4 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Someone needs to lead the band and tell them what version. Take the lead Dave and dictate to them see how you get on. 

Otherwise the person suggesting a new song dictates what version.

Dave

exactly! If you haven't got a strong BL telling everybody what version to play, then step up.  Surely it shouldn't keep happening

[dmccombe7]

If someone suggests a song its probably the first thing i ask. What version ? You could get them to send the version they want to learn to all band members. Pretty easy to do that these days with modern technology.

Dave

Edited January 22, 2019 by dmccombe7

[PaulWarning]

3 minutes ago, Monkey Steve said:

exactly! If you haven't got a strong BL telling everybody what version to play, then step up.  Surely it shouldn't keep happening

it's hard to  believe some bands turn up at rehearsal to learn a new song and nobody's asked "What version are we doing and what key are we playing it in". As  @dmccombe7 says if in doubt just send everybody the version you're going to do, it's not rocket science, and take it with you to rehearsals for when someone (there's usually one) 'hasn't had time' to listen to it  and the singer needs to know if they can sing it in that key

As regards finishing songs with a fade out, just listen to how the band do it live

[Leonard Smalls]

2 hours ago, ubit said:

I would rather go into a bar and see a crap band playing badly than hear a bloody disco!

Not sure if I would!

If there's a poor quality Smashy'n'Nicey disco blasting out "Heigh Ho Silver Lining" or somesuch I can just leave.

But if it's a slightly duff band doing a very average version of "Mr Brightside" too loudly, and dressed like Man At C&A I still feel it's sort of my duty to support them by standing at the back, staring at the bass player and thinking "give the people what they want when they want and they wants it all the time!" (© Parliament "Supergroovalisticprosifunkstication")

[dmccombe7]

23 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

 

As regards finishing songs with a fade out, just listen to how the band do it live

Yep spot on Paul that's how we've done most of our songs. Where different endings are done we pick the one we feel most comfortable with or usually the version that comes naturally but we'll try them all to make sure we are happy.

Dave

[PaulWarning]

2 hours ago, ubit said:

I would rather go into a bar and see a crap band playing badly than hear a bloody disco!

I find it upsetting if I see a crap band, (not just playing badly but just standing there looking like they've walked off a building site with no audience interaction) I stand there thinking "How the hell do this lot get gigs, no wonder live venues are closing down" even if they're not doing a genre I enjoy you can tell if they know what they're doing

[dave_bass5]

50 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

If someone suggests a song its probably the first thing i ask. What version ? You could get them to send the version they want to learn to all band members. Pretty easy to do that these days with modern technology.

Dave

Oh dont get me wrong, we all know what version we are aiming for. I send links via text and email etc, more than once. ive added the version to our play list that i keep up to date.

They turn up knowing we are doing a certain version, but have been too lazy to listen to that version, quite often because its not on Spotify, so just go by the first version they come across and then have to have the stops etc explained to them. Then its 'right, ill go away and have a proper listen for next time'.

 

[Hobbayne]

We are going to cover A Kind Of Magic in my band. I never really gave it much of a listen before we gave it a run through. I just assumed it was just that A - A - A - F# - E - F# riff was the bulk of the song.

However, JD throws in a lot of fills and runs which I never picked up on before.

Got it down to a tee now. 😋

[ubit]

33 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

I find it upsetting if I see a crap band, (not just playing badly but just standing there looking like they've walked off a building site with no audience interaction) I stand there thinking "How the hell do this lot get gigs, no wonder live venues are closing down" even if they're not doing a genre I enjoy you can tell if they know what they're doing

I know what you mean, but what I mean is, it's much more entertaining to watch any kind of live performance than to turn up at a live music venue and find a disco instead.

[dmccombe7]

12 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Oh dont get me wrong, we all know what version we are aiming for. I send links via text and email etc, more than once. ive added the version to our play list that i keep up to date.

They turn up knowing we are doing a certain version, but have been too lazy to listen to that version, quite often because its not on Spotify, so just go by the first version they come across and then have to have the stops etc explained to them. Then its 'right, ill go away and have a proper listen for next time'.

 

I'd have to say that's more CBA syndrome and not sure how you get around people not really giving a s**t. For me that suggests people not really taking the band seriously and rehearsals are more a social event than a meeting to polish of the finishing touches. 

I've been in bands with guys like that and i struggled with them. Last time I was the new guy and it took a short while for me to get up to speed with their existing set before moving on to new songs which is when i first started to notice the lack of commitment. Have to say the band folded as guitarist running it decided he had enough of them and packed it in. No point in staying with them after that. Funny part is they continued and eventually guitarist came back and since his return he sacked the 2 that were slacking and replaced them. Wanted me to come back and replace the existing bass player too but i was already in a  new band.

Dave

[EBS_freak]

3 hours ago, dave_bass5 said:

i have a big issue with my lot (and the previous lot) not learning the same version. We like to scour YT etc and see alternative versions of some songs. Nothing drastic different, but different none the less.

Ever fallen in love by the Stiff Dylans for example. We get to rehearsals and half of them have just gone by the original. 'its more or less the same innit?'. This  happens a lot and gets very frustrating. 

Stiff Dylans - the band from Angus, Thongs and Perfect Snogging. Matt, the bass player (plays a GB Rumour too) in that band seems to be doing alright for himself since the demise of the SD (pretty much straight after the film release). Think he got the MD gig for Taio Cruz.. currently doing stuff stateside with Mike Shinoda. Top guy.

Edited January 22, 2019 by EBS_freak

[dmccombe7]

1 minute ago, ubit said:

I know what you mean, but what I mean is, it's much more entertaining to watch any kind of live performance than to turn up at a live music venue and find a disco instead.

I tend to agree with you altho if its a DJ playing good rock music that i like then i'd be ok with that but not the usual chart pop music that i just find too boring and samey.

Dave

[ubit]

Just now, dmccombe7 said:

I tend to agree with you altho if its a DJ playing good rock music that i like then i'd be ok with that but not the usual chart pop music that i just find too boring and samey.

Dave

I've never come across a rock DJ to be fair. Its always just pop up our way

[EBS_freak]

12 minutes ago, ubit said:

I've never come across a rock DJ to be fair. Its always just pop up our way

Ha - when I briefly lived in Derby, there was a guy... I saw was, I've just looked him up and he's still going strong... He looked like he was at deaths door when I last saw him. Still does it would seem.

http://www.mickmoonshine.co.uk/

And yes, he does dress like that.

[Len_derby]

10 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Ha - when I briefly lived in Derby, there was a guy... I saw was, I've just looked him up and he's still going strong... He looked like he was at deaths door when I last saw him. Still does it would seem.

http://www.mickmoonshine.co.uk/

And yes, he does dress like that.

Good old Mick! Still doing the business at least once every week. Although he is looking increasingly frail and like he hasn’t seen daylight for years.

[tauzero]

19 hours ago, ubit said:

That reminds me of when we used to play regularly. We played with an accordion player, as we mixed Scottish trad. with our rock and pop set. He would ( on paper) sit out the rock stuff, but no, he insisted on vamping over the top of just about EVERY song we did! It used to drive me up the feckin' wall! Lots of hard driving rock songs with bloody accordion featuring! 😡

Jules McHolland?

[dave_bass5]

1 hour ago, EBS_freak said:

Stiff Dylans - the band from Angus, Thongs and Perfect Snogging. Matt, the bass player (plays a GB Rumour too) in that band seems to be doing alright for himself since the demise of the SD (pretty much straight after the film release). Think he got the MD gig for Taio Cruz.. currently doing stuff stateside with Mike Shinoda. Top guy.

Yeah, that's them. I know of the film but never seen it. i just love their version of that song. Strangely it was on Spotify but now its not, so that makes it hard for those who cant be bothered clicking on a YT link to get to grips with it. This is just one of many instances of course.

 

1 hour ago, dmccombe7 said:

I'd have to say that's more CBA syndrome and not sure how you get around people not really giving a s**t. For me that suggests people not really taking the band seriously and rehearsals are more a social event than a meeting to polish of the finishing touches. 

I've been in bands with guys like that and i struggled with them. Last time I was the new guy and it took a short while for me to get up to speed with their existing set before moving on to new songs which is when i first started to notice the lack of commitment. Have to say the band folded as guitarist running it decided he had enough of them and packed it in. No point in staying with them after that. Funny part is they continued and eventually guitarist came back and since his return he sacked the 2 that were slacking and replaced them. Wanted me to come back and replace the existing bass player too but i was already in a  new band.

Dave

Yep, definitely CBA most of the time. Its hard to keep the enthusiasm going when we have to keep going over stuff ive already spent time going over at home or at previous rehearsals. we get there in the end but it can sometimes be a struggle.

 

Edited January 22, 2019 by dave_bass5

[dmccombe7]

9 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Yeah, that's them. I know of the film but never seen it. i just love their version of that song. Strangely it was on Spotify but now its not, so that makes it hard for those who cant be bothered clicking on a YT link to get to grips with it. This is just one of many instances of course.

 

Yep, definitely CBA most of the time. Its hard to keep the enthusiasm going when we have to keep going over stuff ive already spent time going over at home or at previous rehearsals. we get there in the end but it can sometimes be a struggle.

 

I obviously don't know your circumstances but are there other opportunities in your area to join another band or form a new band with guys that share or equal your own commitment. I'd really struggle with that attitude long term so you have my sympathy.

Dave

[dmccombe7]

1 hour ago, ubit said:

I've never come across a rock DJ to be fair. Its always just pop up our way

Some pubs up here still have some good DJ's where you'll get a good mix of rock and some punk thrown in occasionally. Anything with a bit of energy usually goes down well. A lot of the bike festivals i attend have pretty good DJ's blasting out some real classics like Smoke On the Water. You just can't help but enjoy that song when you hear it loud at a bike festival with a beer in your hand. 

If i'm honest tho i'm quite happy with a DJ provided its energetic enjoyable music and only an occasional more chart type song but i don't go out much these days.

Dave

[markdavid]

On 19/01/2019 at 17:48, Len_derby said:

Yep. Pretty universal I think.

Just last week I watched a pub band whose bass player just couldn't stop himself playing on the verse of All Right Now. Sounded pants to me. Maybe not to most of the audience though, I don't know. Are we being too picky?

Wasn't me was it lol , no im not in the same district as you so couldn't have been.  I always play during the verses of that song, I could leave it without the bass playing but I would just feel like a pillock standing around doing nothing, my version is a lot busier than the original but strangely because there is so much open space in that song it works

 

 

[markdavid]

On 19/01/2019 at 17:37, subaudio said:

I've discovered a very irritating trend among "musicians" lately and am wondering how widespread it is 

I'm not talking about changing covers for artistic and creative reasons, that's totally valid in my opinion,.

I'm talking about bands that just CBA to learn the parts or even arrangements of covers.

I started playing professionally many years ago on the working mens club circuit, the band could all play, learned their respective parts and nailed the arrangements, we'd sometimes change bits such as endings to segway or such and I learned a huge amount about song construction and bass lines. All good.

Fast forward to now and the last several bands I've auditioned for went like this:

I get a call for an audition, I ask for a set list and the keys the songs are played in so theres no mix up if they changed key for the vocalists or the copy I'm working on is pitch shifted, as sometimes happens on YouTube to confuse copyright bots.

I learn said songs, note perfect and know the arrangements.

I turn up to the audition and no one is playing the right parts and they are playing a campfire arrangement of the song, nothing in the right place or order and big sections missed out altogether or with random extended "jam" sections

I'm trying to compensate by second guessing what might happen next or when the singer decides they might fancy doing a bit of singing at some point in the song and it makes it sound like I can't play because they all know their own way of "playing" the song.

I even got asked to play lobotomised versions of the bass lines because they "aren't used to hearing those notes" in a ska band! Bass driven music that I learned meticulously and they don't like the proper bassline!

Is it just me, where I live, or do other people get this as well?

I once played in a covers band where the drummer was insistent that everything had to be exactly note for note like the original recording.  We played Immigrant song and I put a slide in at the end of one of the lines, nothing over the top just a simple descending slide and and he stopped playing, the guitar player stopped playing and he screamed at me that the original did not have slides in it , I left that band not long after