Geddy Lee pedal

[artisan]

I've been using one for a while now & am really liking it.

It is actually very versatile & does way more than the Geddy Lee thing.

I use mine to really fatten up my tone & add a little drive,this is now my to go "clean" tone.

Over all I'm very pleased with this pedal.

[Cosmo Valdemar]

It's here! And I've got a house full of guests for NYE so can't try it out...

[prowla]

11 minutes ago, Cosmo Valdemar said:

It's here! And I've got a house full of guests for NYE so can't try it out...

Just treat your friends to a bass player's equivalent of the holidays slideshow...

[prowla]

I have to say that when I tried one I set all of the controls to 12 o'clock and it was spot-on.

[prowla]

I've just had a bit of a play and plugged in the VT Bass pedal; I was able to dial in a pretty good sound on it.

[Al Krow]

On 06/05/2019 at 08:43, dannybuoy said:

VT Bass and BDDI feature a clean blend; this has a touch of gain and EQ applied to the clean side, AKA the deep channel. Should sound fatter overall and make the two channels more cohesive.

The VT and BDDI flub out with too much low end hitting the clipping circuit at high gain. The YYZ has a switch to cut the lows entering the dirt section.

The BDDI has a mid scoop that you need to fight against with the EQ. The YYZ has a very present midrange, I'm interested in seeing how it compares to cranking up the character on the VT.

I love the DuG pedal but it's best in a supportive role, humongous chasm in the mids creates space for heavy guitars yet still cuts and punches through. I would like something with more midrange poke for when the bass is taking on more of a lead role.

Early reports from users experienced with all their previous pedals have said this is the best thing they've ever put out.

That's why I want to try one. I've no interest in trying to sound like Geddy Lee, I've not listened to much Rush - I gave it a try once and had to switch it off!

 

On 22/07/2019 at 16:58, dannybuoy said:

Got mine in. Have to say at the moment I prefer my VTDI. But I do have ancient strings on well overdue for a change, plus haven't tried it alongside a mix yet, so will give it a fair run!

With the BB1025X which has quite a lot of output and low end, the YYZ definitely needs the tight switch to stop overloading the clipping section with too much low end. It's the same with the VT, but I achieve a similar effect to the tight switch with the VT by cranking up the character and cutting back on the mids and blend. It somehow sounds more Geddy than the Geddy pedal, but I probably would not be saying that if I had a Geddy bass with fresh strings on!

It's definitely more than capable of being a subtle warm drive pedal though, it's not overly nasal/fizzy/clanky until you really push the gain.

 

On 05/08/2019 at 10:20, dannybuoy said:

Try mids at 10 o'clock, character at 2-3 o'clock, drive at 11 o'clock, bass at noon, treble at 11, and blend just past halfway.

Since playing this more however I've come to prefer the YYZ! I have to boost the mids and treble to get the same kind of bite that the VT has naturally. The top end is a lot less shrill on the YYZ too, which I like. The low end on the VT gets kind of blurry and indistinct as its being driven, whereas it's so much clearer on the YYZ (when the tight switch is pressed in), especially on a low B.

When it comes to this vs the DP3X, the YYZ sounds miles better when auditioned solo, or when you want the bass to take a main role in the mix - but the DP3X works better when playing it alongside a full mix, which is where it counts I guess. Bearing in mind this is not with a live band as I'm not in one any more, this is playing along to album tracks either in headphones or my bass amp combined with hifi speakers. Pretty sure though I'd get just as good results from the YYZ by adding some additional compression and EQ.

Also, if you're a fan of Geezer Butler's grindy tones on the last Sabbath album 13, the YYZ nails that!

Anyone interest in getting one, check with @tonyxtiger first to see if he has any going at the discounted rate, otherwise Guitar Guitar currently have 1 in stock right now!

 

Just been re-reading this thread and some great posts from you, dB, which I thought I'd quote to give this thread a nudge with, really to see what folks' opinions of the YYZ is a couple of years down the track?

[Cosmo Valdemar]

10 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

 

 

Just been re-reading this thread and some great posts from you, dB, which I thought I'd quote to give this thread a nudge with, really to see what folks' opinions of the YYZ is a couple of years down the track?

Mine didn't last long. I disliked not being able to have any control over the clean tone - you get what you're given and that's it. 

I recently bought a Tech 21 PSA and I can get a better Geddy tone from it (when I want it) and it's a lot more versatile - I don't think there's a driven tone it can't do.

[prowla]

1 hour ago, Cosmo Valdemar said:

Mine didn't last long. I disliked not being able to have any control over the clean tone - you get what you're given and that's it. 

I recently bought a Tech 21 PSA and I can get a better Geddy tone from it (when I want it) and it's a lot more versatile - I don't think there's a driven tone it can't do.

I have to say when i tried one I just set the controls to 12 o'clock and played it.

I suppose though, you buy it for that tone (including the 2nd deep bass channel), so it pretty much does what it says on the tin.

 

My most recent acquisitions have been an EBS Microbass 3 pedal which is really good and plays the role of an Fx board hub, with an Fx send/return loop, and a PHA valve preamp, which really augments the Rickenbacker's sound well and gives that low growl plus thickens the high end.

[artisan]

I moved mine on a while ago,dabbled with some Darkglass stuff but now use  3 channel programmable Sansamp bass driver,which won't be going anywhere,it does everything I could ever ask of it perfectly.

[dannybuoy]

Still got mine! The separate clean lows have a big advantage over the VTDI for heavier tones... Although I'm keeping both (as well as the Leeds and DP3X!), can't bring myself to sell any of them!

[Cuzzie]

4 hours ago, Cosmo Valdemar said:

Mine didn't last long. I disliked not being able to have any control over the clean tone - you get what you're given and that's it. 

I recently bought a Tech 21 PSA and I can get a better Geddy tone from it (when I want it) and it's a lot more versatile - I don't think there's a driven tone it can't do.

PSA is a gem

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, dannybuoy said:

Still got mine! The separate clean lows have a big advantage over the VTDI for heavier tones... Although I'm keeping both (as well as the Leeds and DP3X!), can't bring myself to sell any of them!

 

Good to hear -although I see that you're having a clear out of some very decent pedals!

 

The VTDI is excellent, but there is unquestionably a loss of low end on the effected portion of the signal, so having a clean blend on that is pretty essential IMO. 

[Tech21NYC]

On 25/08/2021 at 11:11, Al Krow said:

 

Good to hear -although I see that you're having a clear out of some very decent pedals!

 

The VTDI is excellent, but there is unquestionably a loss of low end on the effected portion of the signal, so having a clean blend on that is pretty essential IMO. 

 

Maybe something is up with your setup. The VT Bass DI can be dialed in for flat response with the Blend fully on. When the speaker sim is engaged there is actually a bump in the low end at around 22Hz. 

[dannybuoy]

18 minutes ago, Tech21NYC said:

 

Maybe something is up with your setup. The VT Bass DI can be dialed in for flat response with the Blend fully on. When the speaker sim is engaged there is actually a bump in the low end at around 22Hz. 

 

That's quite a low bump! Some of us are running HPFs specifically to get rid of everything under 30Hz!

 

I forget which button it is, probably Bite - doesn't that engage a subsonic filter?

 

Never had a problem with low end loss with the VT, but the drive can overly compress the low end, that's where you really notice the increased  openness and thump with the YYZ.

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, dannybuoy said:

 

That's quite a low bump! Some of us are running HPFs specifically to get rid of everything under 30Hz!

 

I forget which button it is, probably Bite - doesn't that engage a subsonic filter?

 

Never had a problem with low end loss with the VT, but the drive can overly compress the low end, that's where you really notice the increased  openness and thump with the YYZ.

Exactly this^^ in relation to the VTDI, cheers dB.

 

The bite switch on the VTDI is an always on bit of "magic sauce" for me, but is essentially a 'presence' switch which, from the manual, is boosting parts of the high mids and treble and, as you point out, has a subsonic filter. 

 

I'm not engaging the speaker sim, as I'm very happy with the my speaker, but I agree with you that 22Hz is getting to "sub-audio crud" territory and, like many others, I use an HPF to tighten up my low-end sound, but I certainly don't want it disappearing entirely and the clean blend is certainly helpful in that regard. For me, it's around the 65 to 130Hz range where the meat of the low end sits (i.e. first harmonics of low B, E and A strings), but the VTDI bass is centred at 125 Hz which is set a little too high IMO to support that key bass range.

 

That's really my only niggle with the VTDI, otherwise it's a really excellent piece of tone shaping kit.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Al Krow

[Tech21NYC]

My reply was worded incorrectly. So much for multitasking.  22Hz was the 3dB drop point. The bump is around 50-60Hz. Keep in mind that we are running white noise to test with the FFT. The point being is that no matter what, we could get the response back to flat even with the Drive level up. The Bite switch is the stock VT sound. It works better for higher Drive settings. You want to trim out some low end to make higher gain sounds more focused. What happens when the pedal is really overdriven is that you hear more upper harmonic content and that tends to mask the low end. 

 

 

[dannybuoy]

I hear the BDDI v2 is a good one to go for if you like a lot of deep low end... Also don't be afraid of engaging the speaker sim when using an actual speaker, I have it engaged regardless as it just sounds better with it on!

[Al Krow]

15 hours ago, Tech21NYC said:

... 22Hz was the 3dB drop point. The bump is around 50-60Hz...

 

That's a really interesting additional snippet of information about the Cab sim on the VTDI, thank you! What the manual has to say is this:

 

SPEAKER SIMULATION

Speaker simulation is an integral part of the SansAmp circuitry. The VT Bass DI is tuned to match 10-inch American-style bass speakers. It is designed for a smooth, even response as would be achieved by a multiply-miked cabinet, without the peaks, valleys, and notches associated with single miking. The shape of the speaker curve will not adversely effect or interfere with the frequency response of your own cabinet. The speaker simulation works in tandem with the EQ controls to custom tailor the overall sound.

 

i.e.  there is no hint at all that the cab sim is doubling as a 'bass boost' on the VTDI from the manual, so I will definitely be checking that feature out a bit further and, based on your additional info snippet, looks like it should be another 'always on' feature rather than my current default of having it disengaged. 

 

If 22Hz is the 3dB drop point, is it providing around a 6dB boost at the 50-60Hz bump point and then back down to 3dB at around 90Hz?

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by Al Krow

[Tech21NYC]

The cab (or in our case the cab emulation) plays a big part in the overall tonality. It is the final tone shaping in a traditional guitar/bass amp design. There is a difference between a real instrument playing music and a white noise signal in test equipment. Our designer always designs by "ear" and the use of software like the FFT allows us to make sure that the final designs are accurate to the prototypes.

 

I find with our gear I almost always prefer to keep the speaker sim engaged as that is how the pedal is voiced. Because the sims are analog ,they work very well through traditional guitar and bass cabs. Any tonal issues with the sim usually has to do with your amp's preamp section. That usually happens with any sort of Drive pedal.

 

Bypassing the cab sim is more of a benefit with amp modelers because the Impulse response technology not only captures the EQ very accurately but also time and phase elements that may not translate well through a traditional speaker cab.

[Al Krow]

Thanks for your post which was super helpful. It's already changed my view to having the cab sim as a 'default on' with Tech 21 pedals (and also explains why @dannybuoy was finding it was giving him a better sound!)

Was my guesstimate of the cab sim bump curve on the VTDI about right i.e. if 22Hz is the 3dB drop point, is it providing around a 6dB boost at the 50-60Hz bump point and then back down to 3dB at around 90Hz?

Also interested in understanding a bit more from you as to why an analogue pedal is likely to work better than a digital pedal through trad guitar and bass cabs?

[Tech21NYC]

37 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Thanks for your post which was super helpful. It's already changed my view to having the cab sim as a 'default on' with Tech 21 pedals (and also explains why @dannybuoy was finding it was giving him a better sound!)

Was my guesstimate of the cab sim bump curve on the VTDI about right i.e. if 22Hz is the 3dB drop point, is it providing around a 6dB boost at the 50-60Hz bump point and then back down to 3dB at around 90Hz?

Also interested in understanding a bit more from you as to why an analogue pedal is likely to work better than a digital pedal through trad guitar and bass cabs?

The speaker emulation in our products is designed to provide a smooth EQ response without all the peaks, notches and nodes that can happen when using multiple microphones. Don't get bogged down in the numbers. An EQ curve that may look great on a computer screen may not translate if you are playing on a small stage with a low ceiling in a crowded club with a hard hitting drummer, a guitarist using a loud amp and 412 cab etc. The physics of your environment will always dictate the sound.

 

I play a lot of acoustic gigs when I'm not playing with my band. Just acoustic guitar an vocals. No matter how much I try to analyze the EQ settings for my acoustic preamp through my studio monitors and head phones, it all goes out the window when I get to the gig and plug it all in.

 

"Also interested in understanding a bit more from you as to why an analogue pedal is likely to work better than a digital pedal through trad guitar and bass cabs?"

 

It's more about the difference between a speaker cab impulse response and an analog sim. Whether a pedal is digital or analog it doesn't make a difference. It comes down to the type of speaker sim they choose to use.

[Al Krow]

Thanks @Tech21NYC - I've now had chance to play using the cab sim on the VTDI now and found the following:

• In line with your comments, the cab sim provides a more rounded / 'pleasant' tone than when not engaged.
• No cab sim = harsher more brittle tone I associate with taking a DI out from an amp without the coloration provided by the cab speaker.
• Previously I had 'bite' always-on, but going forward it will be the cab sim always-on and the 'bite' engaged just for cleaner tones with the 'bite' off for dirtier drive settings; the bite is effectively doubling-up the treble enhancement of the distortion taking it into 'sharp' / RAT territory (which could, of course, be what's wanted on occasion).
• The overall impact of engaging the cab sim and disengaging bite on dirt settings gives a fuller, warmer drive that I like a lot! 

This little exchange has been really useful and not something I would have easily gleaned from the manual, and further enhanced the high regard I hold the VTDI in and the uses I will be putting it to!

 

The irony of this little side-track discussion is that the YYZ doesn't have either the 'bite' switch or a cab-sim and from my perspective it's just had the bar raised in terms of competing with its VTDI sibling. But I'm still very much looking forward to putting it through its paces.

[Tech21NYC]

There is no right or wrong when it comes to setting the pedal. Any setting that gives you the tone you desire is the correct setting for you.

 

The YYZ is a signature pedal and is not supposed to sound like the VT Bass DI. It does have the "Tight" switch which is somewhat similar to the "Bite" switch but not exactly. 

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, Tech21NYC said:

There is no right or wrong when it comes to setting the pedal. Any setting that gives you the tone you desire is the correct setting for you.

 

The YYZ is a signature pedal and is not supposed to sound like the VT Bass DI. It does have the "Tight" switch which is somewhat similar to the "Bite" switch but not exactly. 

 

Yes indeed - and sometimes (more often than not in fact!) there's no right (or wrong) answer because a particular pedal is not for you, whatever setting you have it on! 

I suspect pretty much every bass player has moved on far more pedals, over the years, than they have currently on their boards. All part of the fun, particularly when you can buy used from a trusted cabal like we have on BC, without suffering much, if any, financial loss. 

[krispn]

I suppose it goes to show that it’s probably better to experiment with a pedal and have the curiosity to engage a button rather than deciding that one won’t need the function assigned to it because of X, YY or Z