51m0n Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Al Krow said: Get a used Mesa M6 and be done with it. Pair it with a VK210 or a Berg 212 (or similar) and your ears will love you forever Mate, the M6 doesn't come close to my requirements list (the eq is way to restrictive, I am a sound engineer first, bassist second after all). Plus I tried a Mesa alongside Glockenklang and Trickfish together and the Trickfish tone was way way way better. The big claim is that its a really flat preamp, which it may be, but if it is then all the others I tried were boosted in the mids/upper mids and significantly shy in the deep bass in comparison. I couldn't swear as to which is truly flatter when set flat, but the Trickfish was far nicer than everything else I have tried (including Darkglass and Aguilar now). With my sa450 I have to use quite a bit of eq, and some compression cleverness to get a truly exceptional tone. Now, fo rthe first time in 25 years of playing I am considering not using a compressor because I might not need one all the time to get the sound I want and the playing feel I want. First time. Ever. Its not that the Trickfish compresses (at all) its just such a truly phenominal tone that I may well get away without the compressor at last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share Posted February 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, chris_b said: IMO most amps would work ell with your cab. I use Aguilar AG700, TH500 and Thunderfunk amps with my BF cabs. Always a top quality sound. Oh yeah, I am nit picking here, all these amps are seriously capable, but if I am putting up serious cash, I want the tone to be absolutely the best I can get for my cash as far as my ears are concerned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Well when you've got your TF, I look forward to an opportunity to A/B them. If my Mesa M6 (and I'm not talking about the D800 / D800+ series here which are half the price of the M6) doesn't match or exceed the TF for tone then ALL your beers for that night will be on me. And I'll likely get a TF myself - lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Better start putting money aside. 😁 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, Hellzero said: Better start putting money aside. 😁 I'll take it from my BB2025X budget. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share Posted February 27, 2019 35 minutes ago, Al Krow said: Well when you've got your TF, I look forward to an opportunity to A/B them. If my Mesa M6 (and I'm not talking about the D800 / D800+ series here which are half the price of the M6) doesn't match or exceed the TF for tone then ALL your beers for that night will be on me. And I'll likely get a TF myself - lol! You're on! BTW at 25lbs for the rack mount version giving you 600w @ 4 ohms vs 6.2lbs and something around 1Kw @ 4 ohms you can keep the M6 I will happily A/B the tone though, because it seriously blew away the D800 for tone for me, by far the best preamp in a bass head I have heard yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, 51m0n said: You're on! BTW at 25lbs for the rack mount version giving you 600w @ 4 ohms vs 6.2lbs and something around 1Kw @ 4 ohms you can keep the M6 I will happily A/B the tone though, because it seriously blew away the D800 for tone for me, by far the best preamp in a bass head I have heard yet... Great, look forward to it. IMO there is no real comparison between the tone of the M6 with its 12Ax7 pre and 'Trans class' (I'm guessing that is A/B class) power amp which together provide its deliciously complex harmonics, and the tone from even some of the best D class amps - the Mesa D800 included, which I've also tried (albeit not through very the best of cabs - just what was available in store). @bassfan and I A/B'd my M6 against both my DG M900 and his TC RH750 and there was no contest. So much so that he went and got an M6 for himself within a couple of weeks. If the TF comes close or betters it, I'll happily purchase one myself and trade in my M6 and my DG M900. I've been looking for a D class that achieves that tonal 'sparkle' the M6 delivers for a couple of years now and not found anything yet. So I (genuinely) look forward to being blown away! PS please check the power rating on the TF - I think 1KW at 4 ohms may be peak rather than RMS? So not apples with apples comparison. Edited February 27, 2019 by Al Krow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 RMS rating for the Trickfish Bullhead 1K and Warwick LWA1000, as they both use the same Pascal Audio power module : http://www.pascal-audio.com/product/s-pro2/ I know, it hurts. How much spare money do you have @Al Krow ? 😁 That said, @51m0n , I would order a Warwick LWA1000 by Thomann to give it a 30 days try and return it if you don't like it ? Remember it's half the price and the preamp is designed after the Hellborg JH PR40... But be quick as May day is coming soon... 😱 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share Posted February 27, 2019 31 minutes ago, Hellzero said: RMS rating for the Trickfish Bullhead 1K and Warwick LWA1000, as they both use the same Pascal Audio power module : http://www.pascal-audio.com/product/s-pro2/ I know, it hurts. How much spare money do you have @Al Krow ? 😁 That said, @51m0n , I would order a Warwick LWA1000 by Thomann to give it a 30 days try and return it if you don't like it ? Remember it's half the price and the preamp is designed after the Hellborg JH PR40... But be quick as May day is coming soon... 😱 Mate, we are talking tone above all else. The fact that the Warwick delivers similar power is not the point here at all. The preamp in the Trickfish is its differentiator here, plus the form factor of the Warwick is complete bonkers bobbins, I have no need for a dodgy one knob compressor (heh, I am that 51m0n who stated loud and clear at a Bash years ago that one knob compressors are Satan's balls, and gave two talks on compression in following Bashes - which I admit bored most people to death, but its not my fault they aren't excited by the difference between a true vari-mu compressor and a FET now is it ;)) and I don't need two channels in an amp, waste of space more crap to go wrong. Nah that Warwick's front end is stupid design all over, two channels each with 4 band fixed eq points? Well they are going to be significantly worse designed and implemented than the preamp in the Trickfish with its 4 band eq with switchable eq centers and differing Q's. I'd be willing to bet the difference in cash between them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) @Hellzero - well that's told you then! Lol! @51m0n Fyi - I am the proud owner of a Satan's one-knob compressor by TC and finding it a LOT more effective than that Cali posh-boy stuff. But heh I am that same Al Krow who believes ALL compressors are the spawn of the devil. Back to the plot: seems to me you're very focused on a great preamp. Fair do's. In which case why not a Monique M700? There's even one in the FS. @both of you There's a lot of cash flying around on this thread. One of us is going to be out of pocket, but at least beers will have been bought 🍻 Edited February 27, 2019 by Al Krow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Actually if I was going to call it, it would be: (based on reputation from trusted BC mates) EQ control - Tech21 Q/Strip Additional amazing tone - Monique M700 Power amp - get something decent that puts out what you need. The M6 and the pre-amp on my basses covers that off for me. But hey I'm just a humble bass player and not a sound engineer... 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bam Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Helix Stomp into whatever power amp you want. Unbeatable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 @51m0n I don't give a sh*t about compressors as I NEVER use them. Hey, man, I've got fingers, you know, these are the best compressors on earth. I also have to fight with sound engineers for recordings or concerts as I don't want a f*cking compressor in the chain that will destroy my sound, being a fretless player it's even more important to have full control over dynamics. You don't have to convince me about the preamp in the Trickfish as I know it very well. It's just the Mike Pope Flexcore preamp which is the best and most transparent preamp (along with the Warwick JH PR40 preamp) : I've been claiming it for years. It was just first for stating the real power of the Trickfish and its Pascal Audio power module. I know you hate the Warwick LWA1000 look, fixed EQ, two channels and certainly the fact that it's made in China, and I'm not affiliated to them (hate their basses, by the way). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share Posted February 27, 2019 14 minutes ago, Hellzero said: @51m0n I don't give a sh*t about compressors as I NEVER use them. Hey, man, I've got fingers, you know, these are the best compressors on earth. I also have to fight with sound engineers for recordings or concerts as I don't want a f*cking compressor in the chain that will destroy my sound, being a fretless player it's even more important to have full control over dynamics. You don't have to convince me about the preamp in the Trickfish as I know it very well. It's just the Mike Pope Flexcore preamp which is the best and most transparent preamp (along with the Warwick JH PR40 preamp) : I've been claiming it for years. It was just first for stating the real power of the Trickfish and its Pascal Audio power module. I know you hate the Warwick LWA1000 look, fixed EQ, two channels and certainly the fact that it's made in China, and I'm not affiliated to them (hate their basses, by the way). Interesting points, HZ, but if you are using that Warwick you cant disengage that compressor at all, and it affects output level in an odd way according to a lot of internet noise. I don't like that idea. Also with all due respect your fingers aren't so much compressors as expanders old bean and jolly good ones at that! Yeah, its totally about the fixed eq points and extra channel and the very peculiar form factor, I admit. The made in China thing isn't great but it could be worse, it could be made by Leyland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share Posted February 27, 2019 19 minutes ago, la bam said: Helix Stomp into whatever power amp you want. Unbeatable. Nope, nope nope nope nope... Modelling is even more stuff that can/will go wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share Posted February 27, 2019 48 minutes ago, Al Krow said: @Hellzero - well that's told you then! Lol! @51m0n Fyi - I am the proud owner of a Satan's one-knob compressor by TC and finding it a LOT more effective than that Cali posh-boy stuff. But heh I am that same Al Krow who believes ALL compressors are the spawn of the devil. Back to the plot: seems to me you're very focused on a great preamp. Fair do's. In which case why not a Monique M700? There's even one in the FS. @both of you There's a lot of cash flying around on this thread. One of us is going to be out of pocket, but at least beers will have been bought 🍻 I looked at the Monique, little too rich for me right now, plus I really really really want switchable eq frequencies, or better yet sweepable (but they aren't fashionable at the moment) or better yet a fully parametric 4 or 5 band eq (I am greedy af when it comes to eq)... The m700 is certainly going to be a very nice sounding amp, but it is not going to do what I want quite I think, and for that money it would have to be spot on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share Posted February 27, 2019 Don't get me started on how compressors are every bassists best friend though, we'll be arguing for years (p.s I'm right btw ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 My rig is this : Warwick JH PR40 preamp + GSS Sumo 1000 power amp + Audiokinesis Hathor 18134 cabinet : Nothing else. Tell me, where is the compressor ? 🤔 Ask Robben FORD about the fingers not being compressors... 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share Posted February 27, 2019 Just now, Hellzero said: My rig is this : Warwick JH PR40 preamp + GSS Sumo 1000 power amp + Audiokinesis Hathor 18134 cabinet : Nothing else. Tell me, where is the compressor ? 🤔 Ask Robben FORD about the fingers not being compressors... 😉 Ah balls, read your post too quick, apologies! Thats a nice pre! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Apologies accepted. 😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share Posted February 27, 2019 Not sure I follow the Robben Ford point though, seriously your fingers are actually expanders rather than compressors, they can make stuff louder, they cant squash the output like a compressor does, its a really different thing than turning a signal down. Its all about transient to signal ratio... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Music is all about dynamic, no ? So no need for a compressor as it's a dynamic killer. But I think we'll start an endless game here... And BC is not an audiophile forum, fortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 All roads get compressed back to Rome in the end. **sigh** 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 6 hours ago, 51m0n said: Now, fo rthe first time in 25 years of playing I am considering not using a compressor !!!!!!!!!! Who are you, and what have you done with the real 51m0n? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, 51m0n said: ...heh, I am that 51m0n who stated loud and clear at a Bash years ago that one knob compressors are Satan's balls... Aha! So this is what one of Satan's gonads looks like? Edited February 27, 2019 by Al Krow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.